Message to GOD"S elect

[Deborah13]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.

Seems to me God didn't do anything differently to Pharaoh than He did to the Hebrew children when they were stiff necked and rebellious towards God.

God tried over and over to get Pharaoh to let the Hebrew children go. He would not. Read it and you will see. Then maybe do a word search of something like
"they would not". You find that God did the same thing to the people He loved in order to bring them in repentance. If Pharaoh had repented and let the children go, God would not have had to destroy him.

So I ask again, what do you understand about foreknowledge?

Exodus 10:3~~Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before Me? Let My people go, that they may serve Me.

Great word.

Someone might say -

God hardened Pharaoh so that He might show forth His power through his stubbornness.

Well said -

For God will give a person over to their evil desires once they have continually resisted His Spirt over and over.


JLB

Thanks guys, for making clear from scripture.

Yes, good word. "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit"

 

[John 8:32]

It's as simple as it gets...

Whose life is justified in you ?

A) my life

B) Christ

C) both of the above

D) none of the above

Easy question, my life. Christ's life does not need justified.

 

[John 8:32]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.

Seems to me God didn't do anything differently to Pharaoh than He did to the Hebrew children when they were stiff necked and rebellious towards God.

God tried over and over to get Pharaoh to let the Hebrew children go. He would not. Read it and you will see. Then maybe do a word search of something like
"they would not". You find that God did the same thing to the people He loved in order to bring them in repentance. If Pharaoh had repented and let the children go, God would not have had to destroy him.

So I ask again, what do you understand about foreknowledge?

Exodus 10:3~~Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before Me? Let My people go, that they may serve Me.

Great word.

Someone might say -

God hardened Pharaoh so that He might show forth His power through his stubbornness.

Well said -

For God will give a person over to their evil desires once they have continually resisted His Spirt over and over.


JLB

Exactly, the fancy term is free moral agency. Means we choose our own destiny. (Doesn't mean we can make it happen, but we have the choice.)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Can you demonstrate where Spurgeon said that, and I will try to look it up and read what he said.

I would say sermon #130 spells it out.

 

[Deborah13]

So then, the apostles, and those that believe through their word (believers in verse 20) are set in opposition to the world. Up until verse 20, it cannot be more obvious that the term "World" refers to something in opposition to the believer. It is an Anti God world, a world that hates believers, and hates Christ.

I agree, which I said to another member, he is speaking through the whole scripture about the world that hates Him and His Gospel.

Now when we get to verse 21, for some wierd reason, you seem to want to ignore the use of the term "world" and completely redefine the term

No that IS the point, it is the same world that hates Him.

verse 20
20 “I do not ask on behalf of these (the Apostles) alone, but for those (us) also who believe in Me through their (the Apostles) word; 21 that they (us) may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they (us) also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

Same world that hates Him and His Gospel. Through this verse He speaks of three groups, the Apostles, the saints, and the world that hates Him.

Why would anyone believe that He could not and would not pray for those who hate Him? "Father forgive them they know not what they do?" If that's not a prayer I don't know what a prayer is? "Love your enemies?" Would God tell us to do something that He doesn't do? That is how we love our enemies, by walking in HIS Holy Spirit.

 

[George Muller]

The whole false free-will doctrine is based upon responding to the error of another group, this should not be.

Interesting. Will you answer this question please. Can one resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit?

OF COURSE! but that proves that disobedience is the product of free-will, the Holy Spirit and the conviction of the Holy Spirit are "GODS WILL" and one must submit ones own "free-will" unto the will of God, that is obedience and all biblical obedience is based on the surrender of ones own will. So the term "free-will" is just silly religious nonsense formed in error to respond to the error of a certain group. Without the Spirit none are elect and none can be in Gods will. The Cross is an absolute rejection that one can serve God according to ones own will, it declares that all must surrender to the will of God.

 

[handy]

Closing thread pending moderator review...

 

[reba]

Thanks Handy

The thread is reopened....



2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.


Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

 

[JLB]

OF COURSE! but that proves that disobedience is the product of free-will,

Then by the same rule, obedience is the product of free will.




JLB

 

[josefnospam]

To Allenwynne Who is Spurgeon? And what is sermon #130?

 

[Deborah13]

To Allenwynne Who is Spurgeon? And what is sermon #130?

Post #130 on this thread.

Charles Spurgeon was a Calvinist preacher, in the mid 1800's. He was quite the preacher.

Here is a link to his sermons. The one we were discussing in #531 The Warrant of Faith http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0531.htm

Blessings

 

[josefnospam]

To JBL Re:obedience Who can keep the law perfectly? For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10 I can't keep the law perfectly, no one can............... We owe a debt to Christ that no one can pay? Do we try to keep the Law.....Absolutley....but what do you do when you fail............................and you will because all men are sinners. What a delimnia. Thank God he forgives us of our sins. We are not under the Law but under Grace. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the Law, but under Grace. Romans 6:14

Our God is awsome.
We are all guilty of breaking the law. If you want to boast, boast in Christ, not yourself. May God bless you as only he can do?

 

[josefnospam]

Quick note about previous post. I don't know how the little face got there or what it means. I will look it up tho.Sorry about the icon.

 

[reba]

We have al been there Jose what you copied and pasted had ( : o) with out any spaces so it automatically looks like this :o

To JBL Re: Obedience ... no icon because I put a space between : and the o

 

[JLB]

To JBL Re:obedience Who can keep the law perfectly? For whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10 I can't keep the law perfectly, no one can............... We owe a debt to Christ that no one can pay? Do we try to keep the Law.....Absolutley....but what do you do when you fail............................and you will because all men are sinners. What a delimnia. Thank God he forgives us of our sins. We are not under the Law but under Grace. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the Law, but under Grace. Romans 6:14

Our God is awsome.
We are all guilty of breaking the law. If you want to boast, boast in Christ, not yourself. May God bless you as only he can do?

Disobedience to God or obedience to God is a choice.

To JBL Re:obedience Who can keep the law perfectly?

Here is what the scriptures teach. -

1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 17:1


Here is God's testimony of Abraham -

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed ; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:4-5


JLB

 

[George Muller]

OF COURSE! but that proves that disobedience is the product of free-will,

Then by the same rule, obedience is the product of free will.




JLB

No when one "surrenders" to Gods Will , they are being obedient to the will of Another, greater, stronger, wiser etc... Will. There is no place for self-will in obedience, but a believer is to know and desire to "do" Gods Will. Salvation unto the end of our faith, is a walk in the "will of God" not mans "free-will". So the term is just without any biblical basis as it relates to a discussion of obedience to God. It is a perfect term to describe the rebellion of man against God. We do not pray "OH LORD LET ME WALK IN MY OWN FREE-WILL" but we pray "LORD, LET THY WILL BE DONE, AND NOT MY OWN"

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you

The Word of God, is Gods Will, we "obey" by surrender of our own will to the will of God. Free-will is just a silly unbiblical term that should be rejected by all believers.

 

[George Muller]

1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 17:1


Here is God's testimony of Abraham -

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed ; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Genesis 26:4-5

Now JLB, you must know that Abraham was long before the law of Moses? So his obedience was the obedience of faith according to the "law of faith" just as our obedience is to obey from the heart by the Spirit and NOT THE LETTER.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[mondar]

Can you demonstrate where Spurgeon said that, and I will try to look it up and read what he said.

I would say sermon #130 spells it out.

You are mistaken. The sermon you refer to says nothing about salvation preceding regeneration, or regeneration preceding salvation. The whole concept only demonstrates ignorance of Reformed theology anyway.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0531.htm
Spurgeon was a Calvinist.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Can you demonstrate where Spurgeon said that, and I will try to look it up and read what he said.

I would say sermon #130 spells it out.

You are mistaken. The sermon you refer to says nothing about salvation preceding regeneration, or regeneration preceding salvation. The whole concept only demonstrates ignorance of Reformed theology anyway.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0531.htm
Spurgeon was a Calvinist.

I'm sorry I was mistaken.

 

[Eventide]

I wonder if Spurgeon also saw himself as one of the limited, unconditional elect, in the first Adam...?

If so, then he was sadly mistaken.. as are so many today.