Heidi said:
No. I do NOT depend on my pastor to tell me what Christ said. I depend on Christ and Christ alone.
Again, I fail to make my point. I can make the same claim, that I "depend upon Christ and Christ alone." Therefore, when I read John, chapter 6, for example, I see the Catholic Eucharist being described loud and clear, yet I am certain that the "bread of life" discourse, from about verses 22 to verse 69. Which of us is right, Heidi? We botyh claim the inspiration of Jesus and the holy Spirit, yet we conflict in what the bible is teaching here. How can that be?
The Holy spirit is Christ's body INSIDE of all of his believers. Jesus Himself says this in the last several chapters of the gospel of John and it is confirmed throughout most of the NT. I also simply BELIEVE HIS WORDS. They are quite clear. There is no need to EVER turn them around, tiwst or distort them. That is why he says; "Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away." They are right there for all to see. There are MANY pastors who change His words which is why there are so many denominations. They can't all be right because they contradict each other. But JESUS is ALWAYS right. Therefore, all you have to do is ask God for the HS and then BELIEVE Jesus's words as written.
Well, I never saw it explained like that before, so to take off from what you say, if Christ is within us, (the Holy Spirit as you say) then why is it that we are not all one church? Why are we divided into fragments, a condition that worsens daily, it seems, when a congregation falls into faction in dispute over a doctrinal issue, they split into a separate denomination, and the fragmentation continues.
Jesus said, "one fold, one shepherd." But no, we are our own shepherds, our own individual "popes" and we are all our own authority with the claim that we all have the holy Spirit to guide us to the truth.
If a person's interpretation is not scriptural then it is made up in his imagination.
Who determines if a person's interpretation is "not scriptural"? If I read John 20:22-23 and see the exact time Christ gave the power to forgive or retain the sins of men, am I being "non-scriptural" and thus in error?
The bible is the word of God. Period.
How do you know that, Heidi? Who told you? My Old Testament is longer then yours, did you know that? My bible has the
deuterocanonicals (what you people call the apocypha) that was always included in the Christian Old Testament (since the early Christians favored the Greek
Septuagint which contained those books) for 1500 years before Martin Luther and others decided in the 16th century to remove them as non-canonical. Where was their authority to do so, Heidi? Why is it that at least three Church synods (councils) included the deutereocanonicals, as well as
excluded such books in the New Testament as the
didache, the
Gospel of Thomas and others which many local/regional churches considered scripture, yet while others
rejected Hebrews, James and even the Book of Revelation in what was to become the New Testament. In fact, do you realize that the very New Testement in your King James version is exactly what it is because of the actions and authority of the (gasp!)
One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? It was in the synods, of Carthage, Hippo and Rome in the early 4th century where we see the Church begfining the process of defining the canon of scriputre, the final approval given by the Council of Trent, done simply because the Church Christ founded is the only valid authority who can do such a thing here on earth (after Christ ascended to the Father in heaven.)
The Catholic Church is the only true church of Christ. It is so, simply because her history goes back to Christ Himself! Only the Catholic Church can document herself back to Christ, something no other Church can do. And somewhere about A.D. 100, St. Ignatius of Antioch first coined the term "catholic" as the included title for the Church - The Catholic Church.
Notice I did not say the "Roman" Catholic Church, as the Church of Rome, the Roman.Latin?Western Rite of the Church is a
subset of the whole Catholic Church, which includes other rites, such as the Bizantine, Chaldean, etc., as we see in the following list:
Rites of the Eastern Churches*
Rites and Catholic
ethnic groups Catholics Dissident bishops
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexandrian:
Coptic 82,894 2,500,000 6
Ethiopian 59,215 9,000,000 4
Antiochean:
Malankar 124,433 1,000,000 2
Maronite 850,000 14
Syrian 80,000 130,000 10
Byzantine:
Albanian 400 255,000
Bulgarian 9,480 6,500,000 1
Georgian 10,000 750,000
Greek 2,872 10,000,000 1
Hungarian 250,000 30,000 1
Italo-Albanian 70,000 2
Melkite 397,611 605,000 23
Romanian 1,572,979 16,300,000 3
Russian 3,000 54,000,000 1
Ruthenian 778,555 400,000 3
Slovak 305,645 50,000
Ukrainian 4,340,000
In Russia#
Other countries 700,000 15
White Russian 35,000 1
In Russia#
In Poland 400,000
Other countries 300,000
Yugoslavian 56,000 7,000,000 2
Chaldean:
Chaldean 190,000 75,000 13
Malabar 1,349,360 5,000 7
Armenian:
Armenian 97,000 13
In Russia 1,000,000
Other countries 600,000
*It should be noted that the figures for Slavic groups behind the Iron
Curtain are estimates only. # Figures included in Russian Dissident
total.
SOURCE: Oriente Cattolico. Cenni storici e statisiche ("The Catholic
East: Historical and Statistical Account"), Rome, 1962.
(1965 Catholic Encyclopedia, page 632, Vol. 3)
The attached is a bit outdated now, and it will not fall into the proper columns correctly, but you get the idea, and if you then include the Roman Rite, you would get a picture of the whole Church.
It was written from the Holy Spirit.
How about the
didache or
The Gospel of Thomas? How do you know they are not inspired as well? Or how about the
Letter to the Corinthians by a guy named Clement, who happened to be the 3rd successor to the bishop of Rome, a person who was a student at the feet the apostles in his youth? Or perhaps I should simply revert to the question, how do you know that, Heidi, who told you? Did the dove of the holy Spirit alight upon your shoulders and whisper this truth into your ear?
who claim that the authors of the bible are liars when they themselves weren't even there should alone clue you in to what is true and what is false.
Who is the "who" here that the "authors of the bible are liars," Heidi?
th never contradicts itself. You have to remember, William, the the ONLY infallibe person is Jesus Christ.
Then explain to m the giving of the "keys of the kingdom" to Simon, now renamed Peter (ROCK) and is the first to receive the power to "bind and loose" in Matthew 16:19, let alone the previous verse, (verse 18) indicating that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" certainly shows the protection of the very Church Christ established as being one that shall not fall into error (that the "gates of hell will not prevail) that indicates a prime infallibility of the Church.
believe any other person is equally infallible, then you are worshipping fallible men, instead of Christ alone.
Do a good google search on the word "nfallible" and see if you do not get a good treatise on exactly what the Church teaches in regards to her own infallibility. For your information, the pope, all the bishops and priests of the church are just as fallible as all men are for 99.99% of the time. That .01 % is rare, comes not to be done by most popes, when an official
ex cathadra (from the chair) definition of a doctrine or faith article that effects faith and morals of the Church, does the pope declare infalliby. But that is another "rabbit trail" I often have to go down to explain to others...
ver seen the pope walk on water, raise anyone from the dead, or die for our sins. Jesus said; "He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted." There can hardly be a more exalting statement from a human being than calling himself "OUR HOLY FATHER.' Even JESUS does not call himself that! Exalting oneself comes from the sin of pride. It CERTAINLY isn't humility!
I have not seen his holiness do that either, other then if the Lord so choose to give him that charisma, Heidi!
But in fact, Peter, the first pope (chief of the apostles) did both of those things! These charismas have nothing at all to do with the rare occasion where the pope is infallible in a teaching he may p;romulgate.
truly worship Jesus Christ, then all you have to do is believe HIS words, over the words of fallible men. But if you do NOT worship Jesus Christ, then you will believe the words of men over His. There is a REASON why Jesus told us NOT to call ANYONE on earth 'father'. The reason is because we will then worship that human being more than God. Your ONLY mediator is Jesus Christ, NOT people who claim infallibility when they haven't shown the world they are better than Christ. This is a lie. "By their fruits you will know them."
Heidi, I truly worship Jesus Christ, who is God and the second person of the Holy Trinity - God. I woirship noneother, Heidi
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
Give me that REAL old time religion!
The CATHOLIC CHURCH, 2,000 years of history! 
