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My Dissertation on the Rapture.

MithrandirOlorin said:
People use a word to describe something the Bible never it to describe, and then people act like pointing out that misuse of the word disproves the existence of the thing they where describing with it. That's my problem here.

There is clearly a "Man of Sin" and "Son of Perdition" in 2nd Thessalonians, and a Beast in Revelation, and a "Little Horn in Daniel".
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The fact is friend, powers of evil are not matters that we lay our eyes on.

We may see external phenomena of same, but these powers are simply not visible.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Were it so easy to pin 'evil' or the 'anti-Christ' on a man, they could easily be put to death and that would be the end of evil, right?

WRONG! That is in fact what Muslims think. That they can, by killing lawless people they can somehow eradicate EVIL.

That won't be happening.

So and again, if your understanding revolves around 'external' observations, it only serves to show such are not looking where one should be looking.

The difficulty is that there is nothing to look at 'in the flesh.' The real action is always unseen.

It does sell a LOT of books though. And creates a lot of fear mongering.

s
 
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I will only be certain of his Identity when he performs the abomination of Desolation. I do suspect there will be decoy Antichrists during the first half of the Tribulation.
 
MithrandirOlorin said:
I will only be certain of his Identity when he performs the abomination of Desolation. I do suspect there will be decoy Antichrists during the first half of the Tribulation.
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You got and need to know now,the abomination is him sitting in that temple pretending to be God,that is the deception by which he shall deceive the whole world,except for those who have the seal of God.....Many think him to be going around killing people and forcing them to worship him,however that will not be the case,one must worship him by their own free will,and all shall, because they will think he is Christ......
 
I do better when I do not let others think for me. Or allow their laid out and defined doctrine formed by eschatology. That is no more than hypothetically speaking by what they see, think or basically opinion. Then taking and arranging scriptures to form that opinion they had. So they can give that same way they see and saw for them owns self to others.

Ask your self questions and answer them your self. Then prove them correct or reprove them as incorrect with the Scripture.

Ask and it shall be given to you. So you do not have to be left at the wanting or needing any Master to lead or guide or Save you.

Seek but seek all in the only source where Truth comes from The Word of God.

Keep and open heart and mind do not ask with a set mind and heart on what you think or rather have. When ever you seek and ask for Truth and understanding from God you must not ask for what you want and they way you want to be more clarified or defined.

Because what we understand and know or think is as a man thinks except it is what we have confirmed and set forth in clear order in The Word of God.

Be careful about using multiple versions of Bibles which sways what you first was given into a different perspective.

When it comes to your own end that could be today or next week or the end of all ways here in this temporal realm. Ask what matters the most as what is the most important what is in regards to your enduing and Salvation.

Do not take loves and bonding with things of this world or particular peoples into prayer or asking of God for His Truth. Go before God who is the only one in your mind and heart and seek Him and His way and His will for you. Ask Him for His help for you to know your way and time here, and how He wants you to live it or go through it.

Just ask asking in all you need or think or wonder about always asking the Lord and seeking your questions in His Word.

When considering the end of this prepared and set forth time of redemption through Christ and His works of His cross. And this for the calling all men to Salvation I ask questions like this below. Even if I know them I ask them and write them down to make firm my faith in all I believe.

I think it depends on:

Do you think that death & hell will always remain?

Do you think that death & hell have a place prepared for them to be cast out into?

Do you think there is 1 or 2 resurrections of Christians?

Do you think there is 1 or 2 resurrections of the dead in sins and trespasses?

Do you think there is 1 or 2 births required to enter Salvation?

Do you think that the removal of the living by death are the blessed?

Do you think that the removal of the living by death are the cursed?

Do you believe there is 1 death appointed unto all men or 2?

Do you believe there is 1 judgment appointed unto all men or 2?

Do you believe that man is judged before death or after death?

Do you believe there is a place called Hell?

Do you believe there is a called Heaven?

Do you believe works of creation of this earth are completed and finished?

Do you believe that the works of creation are enlarged or expanded of the actual earth its self?

Do you believe the works of creation in the earth are once or twice?

Do you believe there is space with place unseen created that are enlarged and added unto?

Do you believe that there is 1 or 2 places created in the unseen space with is place?

Do you think there is 1kind of spirit or 2 kinds of spirit in the living creatures in earth?

Do you believe that man is 3 parts body soul and spirit?

Do you believe that Christ holds the keys to death and hell?

Do you believe that Christ is the judge of the living and the dead?

Do you believe that the Church is the body of Christ?

Do you believe that the Church is apart of this world?

Do you believe that man is to enter into this Church while living here in this present state of the seen?

Do you believe the kingdom of The Lord Jesus Christ is the place where the Church is separated at from this world?

Do you believe that the gates of hell will ever break forth to enter into this Kingdom of The Lord and God and be in the place it should not be?

Do you think that there are out side the gates of this Kingdom hypocrites, liars, whore mongers, thieves, murderers and warmongers, adulterers and such?

Do you believe there will be any newly added man who did not enter the election the body of Christ’s church or Kingdom after they have died in their body here in this present age?

Do you believe this present age of Christ’s elect body the church, which entered the kingdom of Christ separate from this world will remain in the everlasting or be giving over to death again these were redeemed from?

Do you think this world that has received the Light that was promised to come for the giving of New Life by and through Redemption/Salvation can go back into darkness and be enlightened again for 2 time?

Do you believe there is any or other sacrifice for the remission of the worlds’ sins besides that One Christ Jesus and the works of His Cross?

Do you believe God established any One Sowing of only One seed or the reaping of the Sowed that is eternal in its age of harvesting?

Do you believe that God ever established and age unto all man in this world that is eternal or everlasting in this present world or the man that is in it?

Do you believe there ever was a Promise given or Established for an everlasting or eternal way of life here in this world or earth for the Man of Sin, or the ones who refuse to be saved and instead reject the truth for a lie instead?

Do you believe that sin and death which is a curse placed on the man of flesh was promised to remain everlastingly or eternally with out any end or continuance in this world or temporal realm?

Do you believe there is a day in which the curse and the cursed will come to its end in it way of continuing its existence in this world of flesh and natural man?

Do you believe that the natural man or any natural flesh was giving a Promise of eternal existence or everlasting way of life?

Do you believe the Light reveals the works of darkness ,the state and the hour of darkness?

Do you think any who are blind will know what hour it is whether it be the hour of Light Day or the hour of darkness Night?

Do you believe the fruits of mans lips, hands and feet reveal the state of his heart and mind?

Do you believe the feet shod of a fool go forth to carry or run into peace or safety?

Do you believe the hands of a fool stays in there place and way in an orderly manner of conduct?

Do you believe the lips of a fool speak the truth?

Do you believe lips of a fool are the doorway for their mind heart and soul to be revealed when it comes out through it?

Do you believe if you blaspheme The Son you blaspheme the Father and the Holy Spirit they are as One of and the same?

Do you believe that when the elect enter the election they do so by being baptized into their death and resurrection to newness of life that is everlasting, and this by them being baptized in the “name†of “The Father The Son and The Holy Ghost�

No matter what it is all gain in those who are in Christ to live or to die is only gain. And a way is even for a man in the Lord to be found no more at all here be no one to even bury him. Even to be gone up before others who saw it but they are not entering the eternal in flesh which perishes out side its habitat made for flesh. Those who saw them leave did not see no more then the eye and the clouds above us.
 
smaller said:
All the information is there, but obviously also hidden.

For the record there will be no individual person as the anti-Christ.

The anti-Christ is a spirit.

Peter also tells us that judgment begins where?

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Those standing around reading the news about Israel, Jerusalem or Rome are probably missing the picture.

s
Click to expand...

For the record there will be no individual person as the anti-Christ.

The anti-Christ is a spirit.
Click to expand...
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.


That is like saying there was no individual person as Christ because Christ is a Spirit.

The anti-Christ will in fact be The false messiah who proclaims himself as God [messiah] by going to the temple and "working" false miracles,signs and wonders.


this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming...


which you have heard was coming... means he hasn't come, as in manifest himself as "messiah".


JLB
 
JLB said:
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

That is like saying there was no individual person as Christ because Christ is a Spirit.
Click to expand...

The anti-Christ is a spirit. An internal one. And it is not limited to just one man, but 'all' men who sin. Sin is in fact 'of the devil' who is the anti-Christ spirit within the heart.
The anti-Christ will in fact be The false messiah who proclaims himself as God [messiah] by going to the temple and "working" false miracles,signs and wonders.
Click to expand...
There have been many anti-Christ spirits in control of mens hearts from the beginning.
this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming...
which you have heard was coming... means he hasn't come, as in manifest himself as "messiah".
Click to expand...
If ones ears are 'tuned' they will hear the voice of the anti-Christ quite active in this present world.

John the Apostles advice to us?

LOOK TO YOURSELVES.

s
 
1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
 
Originally posted by JLB,

The anti-Christ will in fact be The false messiah who proclaims himself as God [messiah] by going to the temple and "working" false miracles,signs and wonders.
Click to expand...


Yes, and WHAT, or WHO IS THE TEMPLE?!


  • 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
    1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."


  • 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."


  • 1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."


  • Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."


  • 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."


  • 1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."


  • Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."


  • Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."




The man of sin "exalts himself above all...so that he AS GOD sits IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD" (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

Every reference that Paul made to the "temple of God" reveals that he NEVER applied this term to the Jewish temple! When the Bible speaks of the "literal temple," the Greek word "hieron" is used. This word is used 71 times in the New Testament in reference to the temple at Jerusalem.

On the other hand, the word that Paul used for temple is "naos" which refers not to the literal temple made with bricks and stone, but to the Holy Place. "NAOS" is THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD. And the dwelling place of God is now HIS MANY MEMBERED BODY.


The "MAN OF SIN" takes the seat of God in the temple of God "...which YOU ARE..." and usurps the leading of the Holy Spirit and "opposes and exalts HIMSELF above all that is called God, so that HE AS GOD sits in the temple of God, showing HIMSELF that HE is God."


The deception, or as you say, "the false messiah" is WITHIN YOU!


We are THE TEMPLE! So anyone who SITS IN THE TEMPLE (which YOU ARE) must be within US!

This is why John said there were MANY ANTICHRISTS in HIS DAY:

1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour."
 
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Osgiliath said:
Yes, and WHAT, or WHO IS THE TEMPLE?!



  • 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
    1 Corinthians 3:17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."
  • 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God."
  • 1 Peter 2:5 "You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
  • Acts 7:47-48 "But Solomon built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands."
  • 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
  • 1 Corinthians 3:9 "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building."
  • Hebrews 8:4-5 "For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle."
  • Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God."





The man of sin "exalts himself above all...so that he AS GOD sits IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD" (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

Every reference that Paul made to the "temple of God" reveals that he NEVER applied this term to the Jewish temple! When the Bible speaks of the "literal temple," the Greek word "hieron" is used. This word is used 71 times in the New Testament in reference to the temple at Jerusalem.

On the other hand, the word that Paul used for temple is "naos" which refers not to the literal temple made with bricks and stone, but to the Holy Place. "NAOS" is THE DWELLING PLACE OF GOD. And the dwelling place of God is now HIS MANY MEMBERED BODY.


The "MAN OF SIN" takes the seat of God in the temple of God "...which YOU ARE..." and usurps the leading of the Holy Spirit and "opposes and exalts HIMSELF above all that is called God, so that HE AS GOD sits in the temple of God, showing HIMSELF that HE is God."


The deception, or as you say, "the false messiah" is WITHIN YOU!


We are THE TEMPLE! So anyone who SITS IN THE TEMPLE (which YOU ARE) must be within US!

This is why John said there were MANY ANTICHRISTS in HIS DAY:

1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour."
Click to expand...

Let's look at the scripture and evaluate your perception.


3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed , the son of perdition; 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The "he" in verse 4 is that man of sin. A flesh and blood person.

If the "temple" is the body of Christ (The Church), the dwelling place of God as you say, then explain how a man can occupy another person let alone the entire church.

The man of sin would have to be omniscient, which only God is.

Sorry brother, your theory just doesn't work!

The flesh and blood [natural] man of sin sits in a natural temple, showing himself, that he is God, by false signs and lying wonders that he works from the temple, claiming to be the Messiah.


On the other hand, the word that Paul used for temple is "naos" which refers not to the literal temple made with bricks and stone, but to the Holy Place.
Click to expand...
Jesus said -

He who swears by the temple [naos], swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.

naos - temple - #3485

Definition -

used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

By Paul using naos here he is quoting Daniel and referring to Jesus words in Matthew 24:15 -

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

Daniel 11:35-36

35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time. 36 "Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

Sorry man, even your simple word definitions are "out of line".

It's almost as if you would say just about anything or twist the meanings of words to try and disprove the true meaning of what the scripture says.

A man occupying the entire Church [Temple of God] all at the same time, WOW!

That's sad.

JLB
 
So I know of a book that may help answer some questions reguarding the rapture. It is called The Footsteps Of The Messiah by Arnold J. Fruchtenbaum. the book is broken down very well and is and excellent read if you have the time. Has anyone heard of the book? Its full of references and authors own perspectives along with timelines, graphs, charts, and other possibilities which are all pretty much narrowed down to where the Word speaks for Itself. Deep down in your hearts you know you are gonna find out if you are a true believer. Evangelize!! Evangelize!! Evangelize!!
 
JLB said:
A man occupying the entire Church [Temple of God] all at the same time, WOW!

That's sad.

JLB
Click to expand...

I agree it's sad.. thinking that the body of Christ has the man of sin within it.. that would mean that there is sin in Christ and that's sheer nonsense.

IMO people are spiritualizing the entire bible away while thinking that this makes them super spiritual or something.. and if people can't see that Day approaching when all these things which shall be hereafter... come to pass, then they're spiritually blind.

The rapture of the church of God is a biblical certainty, because it's stated as plain as DAY within the holy scriptures.
 
I don't know what planet you guys are on, but 'all' have sin and sin is in fact 'of the devil.'

It is no mystery that the spirit of disobedience abides in the TEMPLES of BELIEVERS.

I mean seriously, look around you at these boards and tell me that confusions of every sort have not swept into the entire lot.

And that too is a 'spiritual principle.' The workings of Babylon in the spiritual sense is CONFUSION.

If current church members are not at the bottom of this sea, nobody is.

s
 
You're welcome to believe that the man of SIN sits within the BODY OF CHRIST.. His future bride to be.. although imo that's impossible, for there is no sin in Him.

We're also told plainly in the scriptures that the man of sin shall be destroyed by the brightness of HIS COMING.. another thing which tends to get spiritualized away today.. the Day of the Lord.. Rev 19 affirms the same thing.. that the beast and the false prophet are taken alive at the COMING of Christ.. the beast is clearly the man of sin who is going to have dominion over the entire world for a time.. and then He shall be destroyed by the brightness of HIS COMING.. and then shall the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ..

I know it's a fairy tale to some.. although it's the absolute and certain truth of things which shall be hereafter..
 
As Ye see that day approaching...

Why not simply read the REST of the story... there's infinitely more to come in that DAY.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ...

The Day of the Lord Jesus Christ is described in miraculous detail throughout the OT and NT.. and specifically within the Revelation of Jesus Christ, chapters 4-20.

And it's all a certainty.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ..
 
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