Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots

[TonkaTim]

ok then why does the bible list the them a jews by tribe and call them that, surely john knows what a jew is? after all surely they know their own race.

and why list them by tribe and name if they are only jews?

makes no sense to me.

if its list each by tribe

12,000 out of the tribe of benjamin, and 12,000 and also the others.

i can see that point and failed to correct that. its a bad habit i learned some where and its called 144,000

ah chapter revalation 7:4 calls them this out of the children of isreal.

interesting:

and most jews use the word hebrew and call themselves that, i switch back and forth on that.

You do realise that John only use the word "Ioudaios" which means "of Judah"(which is translated as Jews) twice in the entire book of Revelation right?
Revelation 2:9 & 3:9

and

John only use the word "Ioudas" which means "Judah" twice in the entire book of Revelation right?
Revelation 5:5 & 7:5

No where does John call the 144,000 jews.

 

[TonkaTim]

it says clearly that 144,000 will be undefiled with women, so that cant be the case for that definition though i do agree these guys will be pure in their faith as they will be of isreali descent and also like us followers of christ.

it says nothing of the ot sacrifes they will make for their sins. they must be christians.

Agreed.

edit:
Israel/Herbrew descent is DNA, and can be almost anywhere in the world, considering we see the small visible apostate Judah all over the world & plus Messianic Judah like Doc Stranglove. Thus it makes sense that large invisible Israel/Judah (Lo Ammani) is all over too. Almost 3000 years of invisible DNA mixing can make for a very large & diverse populous. , )

 

[Strangelove]

Wow. I see theres been LOTS of constructive talk while I've been in bed. Maybe I should just let you guys get on with it. The tide seems to have turned dramatically while I've been away.

Superb contributions form TonkaTim. Welcome to the thread Brother. You seem like a very knowledgable fellow and an open minded Christian. Ready for truth. I like your posts they are full of sound ideas.

Welcome back zone. Nice to see you here again. I know your vast studies on this subject will help to thrash this out with spadesfull of logic and real world analysis.

of course, my issue with these guys isnt that isreal is that harlot , but they wont ever return to the christ. they dont see that part of the bible. only the other part. i do believe that isreal can be the harlot but lets be honest i think that the u.n, with the ideas that it has more anti christ ideals then the state of isreal does. all nations are going to come together when the time is right and worship the beast.

Jason. You are so close to being of one mind with us in the truth. Unity in Christ. The only thing stopping you is the zionist idea that somehow the racial Jews are owed something by God and the actual physical State of Isreal and its governments should be yoked to the rest of western civilization. Take the extra step Brother. No one is gonna think any less of you if you cast out your in-built affinity for the forces that love and promote the spirit of antichrist. It's time to let that go now my friend.

You are open to the idea of Isreal / Jerusalem as being the harlot...thats good....but you need to go the extra step and recognise her as the ROOT. The WHORE...THE MOTHER . You know about the masons....the shriners....all the false religions...Hinduism,,...Buddhism...Fake Charismatic nonsense christianity......Martial Arts.....the New age philosophy...the zionist movement and her control over all nations. You have to recognize that all these things sprout from the Kabaalah and the Talmud and Zohar! And the fake edomite jews who do lie. It's the source of all of it. It's undeniable.

I know you are a Christian Jew. So am I. I didnt want to believe all this stuff. I was horrified by it. But the fact is. The people were talking about who comprise the Synagogue of Satan are the oldest gang on the block>>>>>Why wouldn't it be them! They were the very first people to turn away from God. Everytime God offered them special privalage they blew it! Time and time again. Eventually He offered them His Son and they killed Him!! And then they rejected His truth. ((Big mistake because that allowed every human who has ever lived on Earth to identify the bad guys))

Jason. I like you. You are a powerful speaker and a strong member of the forum. And a former Jew like me! You would be a wonderful asset to the team my Brother. Cast out the leaven. Dont allow the Pharisees to leaven the lump.

5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered
together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ (The truth of the Gospels),
5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven
leaveneth the whole lump?
5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with
the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread
of sincerity and truth.​

 

[Strangelove]

is the very ten commandments that well are the same as the noahide laws demonic to you.

i read that link and well we christians are commanded to do much of the same. are we to take the lord name in vain, and are we to murder and also to fornicate etc.

or what does the lord say? that we are to do the first and second all esle will fall in place.

those noahide links you gave didnt mention that they wanted to rule the world only to live out their faith.

Jason. You are surely not saying that the Noahide Laws are a good idea are you?

Look. They are a Talmudic creation. There were never any laws given to Noah. Law #1 frobids any kind of idolatry ::::: BUT!!! The Talmud and the Rabbinical leadership who came up with this garbage define WORSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST AS IDOLATRY. I've given you all the resources you need to see that. They say it themselves. Straight from the horses mouth. You have to read the smallprint>>

If you worship Christ your head is chopped off.

If you celebrate Xmas or Easter your head is chopped off. You can add to that ANY Christian holiday.

From Noahide.com :::::

"A gentile . . . is liable for the death penalty . . . if he has invented a religious holiday for himself . . . The general principle is we do not allow them to make new religious rituals and to make 'mitzvahs' ["commandment;" sometimes "good deed or blessing"] for themselves by their own devices . . . if he does make some new 'mitzvah,' we lash him, punish him, and inform him that he is obligated [sic] with the death penalty for this." (Rambam Mishne Torah--Hilchose Melachim 10:9)

So Christians or non-Christian Gentiles, according to the "Rambam Mishne Torah" should be lashed, punished, and put to death if they insist on following their own religious practices, including celebration of non-Jewish religious holidays, such as Christmas.

You will see that Jesus is called a "dangerous" false prophet who "repeatedly broke the Law by committing terrible sins, while openly challenging the G-d given authority of the rabbis of the Sanhedrin."

The "Who Was Jesus" page also cites the Talmud -- the references in parentheses are the specific books. The quote begins here:

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of 'Jesus the Nazarene':

1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), and was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh -- which is also explicitly banned in the Bible. (Shabbos 104b).

-------------------------------------------
​

If Jesus Christ stepped into America with the Noahide Laws being enforced..... he would be put to death again -- by Jewish law.

Please Jason. You have to realise that the noahide Laws involve setting up courts of law with the Sanhedrin as the judges. It's law # 7. Go back and read my info.

i dont think you understand that we have much in common with the jew that actually practices his faith.

Huh? I have nothing in common with antichrist. The only thing I have to offer them is the Gospel. The love of truth. Thats it.

the only difference is that we can and an empowered to fulfill them by the blood of christ and that we know we arent perfect enough to fulfill the law. nowhere in the nt is the very idea of law negated just the curse and the need to follow the sacrifices. we are to follow the ten commandments are we not.

Empowered to fulfill them? Oh dear.

I hope your not suggesting with this post that we are under the old law Jason. Please dont slip into the hebrew roots thing. You know we only have two commandments now. They cover everything that is right and wrong. Except sabbath......which were not under anyway.

 

[Strangelove]

we dont know if he was raised in the temple. i dont recall him saying that. he has some unusual positions on science.

Lol....raised in a temple?? Well....I was raised in a VERY liberal Jewish family. But unfortunately modern judaism is Talmudic....so in essence I was under the influence of antichrist. And I escaped it easily as my parents didnt force it on me. I was lucky. I think the reason why SO many Jews in the west are liberal is basically because they know in their heart that it just doesnt make sense to go down that road.

My mum is actually a full on Isreali...born in Poland....went to Russia then went to Isreal and lived there for 30 years. Classic WW2 knock on effect Jewish migration.

Isrealis are VERY different from most Jews. My dad couldn't care less really about the Muslims and the conflict over there....but when I ask my mum...the answer is straightfroward. "The Muslims should be wiped off the face of the Earth. Kill them all"....I lived in Isreal for 2 years (I'm a dual citizen cos of my mum)...you ask any Isreali and they will give the same answer. The hatred that is in that nation is astonishing. In fact I've never met an Isreali that I liked. And thats the God's honest truth. They are a horribly brainwashed nation in the most part. when i was over there I mostly hung out with Turkish friends who are really chilled.

doc, if you arent able to acess to the science forum please request it.

Ok I sent you a PM Jas.

go back a few pages and you will find that i listed my uncle as a rich jew. he to my knowledge wasnt of that ideal.

he was very pro democrat, but so are most jews in america.

Exactly. Theres the problem. Democracy is a TERRIBLE form of government.

The USA isn't even supposed to be that way. Its menna be a Constitutional Republic. Which is completely different. ((But just as useless really, but not as dangerous))

 

[Strangelove]

Doc Stranglove - What's your thoughts on the khazars? Are these the folks your talking about? The Ashkenazi?

I dunno buddy. I mean....my mums ashkenazi Jew....the Khazars have definately been involved in some horrendous stuff in eastern europe when you look at the Bolsheviks and the Cheka and wotnot....

Zone? You the expert.

 

[Strangelove]

may be i should do a thread on why the UNITED States is the beast.

If you did do a thread on that you'd get plenty of backup from me Bro.

The US is mos def part of the beast system but the point is its not the Mother. The root. The one talked of as Babylon the Great in Rev.

You can rule out all the decoys like Rome and the European Union etc. and all the rest very easily because John tells us one solid concept that no one can get around. None of those decoy's are the place where our Lord was crucified.

11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.​

Boom!​

but i find it hard when it clearly says that the lord will redeem these jews in the end times.

​

Please show me documantation where the Bible says that AFTER JOSHUA. After God fulfilled all His promises to the Isrealite peoples. Where does it say He will redeem the Jews?​

The Jews will be redeemed. IF they repent and accept Jesus//////Nothing else will do. Nothing.​

14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.​

 

[Strangelove]

the mystery Schools have hidden the secrets of all demonic things, all rebellious things, and carried them forward to today. this is what we call the NWO. the communistic system is such a system: but communism per se, has no religion : it worships military power and might. but the Communists/Fascists have all been PLACED into power. no one gets there by chance. any world leader who isn't part of the club gets whacked.

Correct. Everything can be traced back to the original Babylon. There were a lot of hateful Isrealites in that place. They turned from God. They made a pact and made traditions of men and oral laws and promised eachother that they would defy God forever more. They basically got in the sack with Satan. Mystery schools....Jewish Mystecism....Kaballah..... = Mystery, Babylon the Great.

 

[Strangelove]

That's interesting.

Thinking about maybe changing your username??

After all theres no such thing as a Judaic Christian. Only a full Christian.

Jesus Christ + Anything >>>> Is not Jesus Christ.

.....especially Jesus Christ + Judaism.

 

[Strangelove]

There is a difference between a person who is a virgin in a doctrinal sense and a person who is sexually "pure".

I think that the reference to the 144,000 and their purity is about not being defiled by the harloty of false doctrine. Nought to do with actual sexual actions.

I think thats what you are getting at right Vic?

Whoredom.....harlotry....fornication......these things are commonly used as metaphors for cheating on Gods doctrine.

 

[Strangelove]

i believe the 144,000 are described as virgins because they have not been tainted with Rabbinic Judaism (which is not Torah Observance). God refers to idolatry, having other gods/religions as adultery, so this makes sense to me.

Yeah thats it. I agree with this viewpoint.

It's clearly not about actual sexual deviancy.

Can I just ask. Are the 144,000 dead at this time or could people living on Earth now be included??

Should I actively keep my boy away from girls just in case?? Lolz.

 

[Adstar]

Well i believe the 144,000 are innocents the remnant spoken of in the OT. The Book of Revelations is clear to me that they are undefiled by woman. It does not just say they are virgins it clearly identifies the kind of virginity. As in not being defiled by woman.

There is no problem for me with God saving 144,000 physical decendants of Abraham. Especally if they are innocents. They have taken no part in any spiritual harlotry because they are too young to know good and evil.

As for older Jew, i agree they have but one way to eternity with God and that is through the Messiah Jesus. Same with Buddhists, same with muslims, same with catholics, same with us all.

Note, The book of Revelation does not say that the 144,000 will be the only ones saved during the end times. For it says:

Revelation 7
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!†11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:


“ Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.â€

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?â€
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.â€
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


A great multitude which no one could number. These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. So these are saved but seperate from the 144,000 who being innocent have no need to be washed by the blood of the Lamb.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[jasoncran]

read the chapters of zecheriah where it says that he will restore jerusalem. if the lord has already done that, why then repeat that as a future event? that book was written after hoshea(he address isreal and is a contemporary of isiah) zechariah is postexillic btw.

 

[Strangelove]

read the chapters of zecheriah where it says that he will restore jerusalem. if the lord has already done that, why then repeat that as a future event? that book was written after hoshea(he address isreal and is a contemporary of isiah) zechariah is postexillic btw.

I'm not really familiar with the OT. Could you tell me. Is Zecheriah talking about restoring the Earthly Jerusalem or the New Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven?

 

[jasoncran]

earthly one, and i am fully aware of the type of govt we have, the founders didnt want us to be a true democracy as they knew would happen and so it is.

i was commenting on the lack of clarification of the noahide link. and the jews wont be the only ones doing that so will the muslims( they have been doing just that a lot longer) so will the militant buddhist and the hindus.

the ac will control all religions, not just judaism.

btw we killed jews for their slaying of the messiah. the rcc has some responsibility for the holocaust. as they did persecute and slay them along with the protestant churches.

 

[Strangelove]

earthly one

How can that be proved? I honestly dont know anything about Zecheriah so this is genuine interest.

i was commenting on the lack of clarification of the noahide link.

Tell me what further clarification of the Noahide Laws you need. They want to behead us for worshipping Christ! It's documented. Thats what the Sanhedrin courts will judge when the Noahides (which Bush Snr signed up for decades ago) start to be enforced.

the ac will control all religions, not just judaism.

Yeah and the Antichrist will be working out of the Babylon HQ Jerusalem so guess which religion will be king of the religions?

 

[jasoncran]

but is that said why would we then, make peace with them? does he not make peace with them? does satan attack satan. heres the kicker

the miracllous six day war?

so does satan attack his own?

why would he do that, remember the word of the lord a house divided agaisnt itself cant stand

arent muslims that done follow the lord on his side? so if the muslims attack the jew( also on satan side) what would that acomplish.

its zechariah 14, 12 that's what i am talking about, and also you forget that when the temple is built the the ac will commit the abonomation of desolation, and to the jew they know what that is.

so if we warns the apostles of what that is, then what is it? they understand it from the book of daniel and also the maccabean siege.

so that has to come again.

when that happens the jew or all of isreal will then see what the ac really is.

 

[Strangelove]

but is that said why would we then, make peace with them? does he not make peace with them?

Who......what? Dont understand. Who makes peace with who?

does satan attack satan. heres the kicker

the miracllous six day war?

so does satan attack his own?

why would he do that, remember the word of the lord a house divided agaisnt itself cant stand

Yes! Of course...Satan will do anything to cause people to be decieved! He will cause wars....He will persecute the ungodly if it means billions more decieved. Why not? He has no loyalty to his minions. Would you expect different. He's the father of lies. He makes no promises. His house ISN'T gonna stand obviously.

arent muslims that done follow the lord on his side? so if the muslims attack the jew( also on satan side) what would that acomplish.

It would accomplish worldwide sympathy for the state of Isreal of course. What was WW2 all about? Sending the poor deluded Jews to the land that the zionists set up from WW1.

its zechariah 14, 12 that's what i am talking about,

Can you specify the parts that prove its Earthly Jerusalem plz.

and also you forget that when the temple is built the the ac will commit the abonomation of desolation, and to the jew they know what that is.

so if we warns the apostles of what that is, then what is it? they understand it from the book of daniel and also the maccabean siege.

so that has to come again.

when that happens the jew or all of isreal will then see what the ac really is.

Sorry I dont understand what point your making here.

 

[jasoncran]

satan attacking satan that is something the jews said about the lord in the gospels. when the lord cast out devils in his name did not the pharisees say that he was casting them in the devils name? and what is the response.

does it not make sense to have the muslims work with the jew and build the city together instead of fighting together? and ww1 wasnt about the jews at all. it was over the balkan assination of archduke feridinand in bosnia and the russian alliances with france, and france and brittain and also the germans with the italians and the ottomans

zechariah 14:16 kjv"
and it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship King, the Lord of Hosts,and to keep the feast of the tabernacles."

quite a literal location to me on earth, and if you read on theres more on this.

 

[Strangelove]

ww1 wasnt about the jews at all. it was over the balkan assination of archduke feridinand in bosnia and the russian alliances with france, and france and brittain and also the germans with the italians and the ottomans.

Ya,,,,,,and.....we pulverised Afghanistan cos a handfull of radical arabs (who wernt even Afghans and we cant even be sure they did it) brought down the twin towers? .....and we invaded Iraq cos of the WMD's? And Vietnam to halt communism....and the list goes on and on and on.....

THATS THE SCRIPT JASON!!! The the Hollywood movie that they drip feed you. You dont judge the reason for a war by the incident that sparked it....you judge it by the FRUIT!

zechariah 14:16 kjv"
and it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came (Past tense) against jerusalem shall even go up (Future tense) from year to year to worship King, the Lord of Hosts,and to keep the feast of the tabernacles."

Jason. You never addressed my posts where I quote scripture. Why?

Now that I got you mono a mono >>>>

REV 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.​

REV 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

Who are the Synagogue of Satan? Who are they?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Why are you so bothered about a nation and people who are antichrist??

1 THESS 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

They please not God! They are contrary to all men!
Of course they are contrary...they are antichrist!

But you defend them and want to support their country?? Why?​