Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots

[Strangelove]

a reason to actually read the ot even if you dont agree with me. so that one does know what the nt book revalation alludes too.

Which reminds me you never replied to my post about how Joshua makes it clear that God owes nothing to modern Isreal. I thought you were into OT debating Jason?

 

[Strangelove]

Doc

As a side(not meant to be criticism): I find your comment about familiarity of the old testament pretty common in this time. Once folks are strong in the Gospel's I always recommend old testment study. It is powerful in the proclaiming of the coming Christ. The secure knowledge & confirmation that Christ has been taught from the beginning strengthens ones faith and empowers their personal walk with God. It also empowers one as a better witness to the Truth of Christ, knowing it has always been about Christ by the Word of the complete Gospel.

Thanks Tonka. I reference the OT everyday in my studies. I'm covering a lot of ground trust me.

Oh...and by the way..I dont believe in varying degress of faith. So my faith cant possibly get any stronger. It's already maxed out.

I believe in Christ. Simples. It was 100% faith from the moment I believed. The only thing thats getting stronger is my ability to school lifelong Christians in the simple truths of the Bible.

Cheers>>>

Doc ::::::::::::::::::

 

[jasoncran]

very well lets see here

isiah 10:22
isiah 11:11,12(both judah and isreal restored)

these are easiest to find

and let me ask you this as it relates when christ returns to judge the earth? will it be a physical return or and how long will he reign?

its revelant as theres this verse stating where he will return.

acts 1:6 " When they therefore come together, they asked him, saying Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom of ISREAL?"
and then the Lord's response
acts 1:7" And he said unto them . It is not for you to know the times or season, which the Father has put in his own power"

one might think if the christians is the new isreal and the promise was done and isreal as a nation forsaken then why didnt the lord tell the apostles that since they ask that dumb question?

 

[Thranduil]

PLAY THIS VIDEO, and the others related to it.....see if this sounds familiar:


Rabbi Skobac Why Christians are turning to Orthodox Judaism part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOKrfutwRR0


click this link to see who is promoting this teaching:

http://www.iheartnoahides.com/2008/08/why-christians-are-turning-to-judaism/


take your time on that site and look over the proposals carefully.

see if they sound like what you have been hearing.

ask yourselves where this may be leading. if you have studied prophecy to any extent, you should know where this is headed.


click here to be reminded to not follow the voice of a stranger:

Seven Noahide Laws

the time has come for us to not keep silent.

this is our greatest threat, it's time to PURGE THIS LEAVEN.

christians are being led to slaughter (falling away). their mouths must be stopped.

i warn you again, as Paul did (please read this and don't let it slip from your minds):

<< Hebrews 6 >>
King James Version

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


the meaning of this warning should be crystal clear: THESE PEOPLE WILL BE CUT OFF.

are you willing to stand against it, at any cost?

zone

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 16:6
Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

please post your thoughts on this matter. don't keep silent.

Thanks zone, this was very enlightening.

 

[jasoncran]

i read that yesterday and where is this statement that you say that these sanhedrin plan to kill us, on all your links theres not statement of that.

 

[zone]

Thanks Tonka. I reference the OT everyday in my studies. I'm covering a lot of ground trust me.

Oh...and by the way..I dont believe in varying degress of faith. So my faith cant possibly get any stronger. It's already maxed out.

I believe in Christ. Simples. It was 100% faith from the moment I believed. The only thing thats getting stronger is my ability to school lifelong Christians in the simple truths of the Bible.

Cheers>>>

Doc ::::::::::::::::::

i love that Doc.
The Lord is Amaaaaaazzzzzing.
zone

 

[zone]

Thanks zone, this was very enlightening.

you are very welcome.
this is going to take everything we've got.
hold fast.
love zone.

 

[TonkaTim]

and no, i dont see the sacrificial system restarted but the worship in isreal is still done as why does it mention the theres no rain there in the nations that wont go to the temple to worship.

some pretribbers believe that the temple is where the lord is when he comes to reign on the earth.

question to all is there an actual return of christ to the earth?

Yes, of course Christ will return. He told us He would.


I try to caution folks not to read to much into the endtimes unless the scriptures are clear.

I say this because;

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Revelation 10:4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not

We see by these two verses even the prophets did not understand, and, we do have knowledge held back from us.

Knowing that.

It makes more sense as to why we are supposed to only watch for the signs made clear through scripture.

None of us currently on this earth are prophets getting very special specific Divine revelation directly from the mind of God.

Those that did struggled to understand and made clear we do not have all the knowledge regarding these events

With incomplete knowlege and symbolic prophet metaphor no one without Divine revelation directly from the mind of God can declare with authority what will happen. They can only speculate.

This is why I say leave the "new gospels of men" & the "new prophecies of men" alone. The "new revelations" can color scripture and confuse ones mind about scripture.

Why I say read the scriptures.

I've been reading the scriptures for 39 years. What I know is far less than I should and I have far more to learn than I already know.

 

[Thranduil]

i read that yesterday and where is this statement that you say that these sanhedrin plan to kill us, on all your links theres not statement of that.

Jason, how could you possibly believe they would post information about their plans to kill us?
And the stated plan they make is the first law that Doc has pointed out continually, You shall have no other Gods, idolatry.
And proclaiming Jesus as Messiah is idolatry.

 

[Strangelove]

very well lets see here

isiah 10:22
isiah 11:11,12(both judah and isreal restored)

these are easiest to find

and let me ask you this as it relates when christ returns to judge the earth? will it be a physical return or and how long will he reign?

its revelant as theres this verse stating where he will return.

acts 1:6 " When they therefore come together, they asked him, saying Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom of ISREAL?"
and then the Lord's response
acts 1:7" And he said unto them . It is not for you to know the times or season, which the Father has put in his own power"

one might think if the christians is the new isreal and the promise was done and isreal as a nation forsaken then why didnt the lord tell the apostles that since they ask that dumb question?

Um....My Bible says this::::

1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him,
saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to
Israel?

Kingdom TO Isreal.

What Bible are you reading??​

 

[zone]

i read that yesterday and where is this statement that you say that these sanhedrin plan to kill us, on all your links theres not statement of that.

hi jason.
they are planning to kill us....do some digging.

Jesus said if they did it to Him, they'll do it to us. Jerusalem killed the prophets, and will kill the saints.

Paul was very careful to say he was zealous and profited greatly in the JEWS' RELIGION (Oral Traditions from Babylon).

what has to be grasped is that we are not dealing with those who hold fast to Moses and the Prophets.

we're dealing with the same Babylonian Talmudic Religion that had usurped the Seat of Moses in Jesus' Day.

these passages in Revelation can truly be understood today, since the head that received the deadly wound in 70AD is coming to life.

if we can distance ourselves from blaming JACOB, we're going to understand. jacob is in trouble because he has allowed the leaven of the Pharisees to take over AGAIN.

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

zone.

 

[Thranduil]

Yes, of course Christ will return. He told us He would.


I try to caution folks not to read to much into the endtimes unless the scriptures are clear.

I say this because;

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Revelation 10:4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not

We see by these two verses even the prophets did not understand, and, we do have knowledge held back from us.

Knowing that.

It makes more sense as to why we are supposed to only watch for the signs made clear through scripture.

None of us currently on this earth are prophets getting very special specific Divine revelation directly from the mind of God.

Those that did struggled to understand and made clear we do not have all the knowledge regarding these events

With incomplete knowlege and symbolic prophet metaphor no one without Divine revelation directly from the mind of God can declare with authority what will happen. They can only speculate.

This is why I say leave the "new gospels of men" & the "new prophecies of men" alone. The "new revelations" can color scripture and confuse ones mind about scripture.

Why I say read the scriptures.

I've been reading the scriptures for 39 years. What I know is far less than I should and I have far more to learn than I already know.

I couldn't agree more with all you've said here except; Why are you so certain of this part I made bold and underlined?

 

[jasoncran]

Um....My Bible says this::::

1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him,
saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to
Israel?

Kingdom TO Isreal.

What Bible are you reading??​

missquote, my bad and if one takes that to mean kingdom to isreal, ok lets play this semantics

Isreal is jacob correct in the ot? and two if we are isreal and the kingdom of god is nigh when then why would it need to be restored to us when we are in it. you do believe that then we repent upon salvation we are in kingdom
how then can we come to the throne bodly except we are the lord's subject, and if we are his subjects then are we not in his kingdom.

so then YOU have a problem as that means a contradiction.

and zone, i have noticed the links you have posted dont have it in fact tonkatim pointed me to the right place but i was asking YOU do post some links that have the mention of the death sentence and so on that you claim.

is that too hard to ask.

 

[Strangelove]

I just wanted to put these two posts here to show people what a professional Judaizer sounds like. Luckily we dont have anyone like this on our forums...this is from ChristianChat......zones long time forum. Look at the language>>>Watch how he sneaks in all nice nice and diplomatic::::

Hi,

Well, I'm not sure I have a hard head or a soft heart, but I could not reconcile what I heard from the pulpit with what I read in the Bible, so I walked away from Eucharists, tongues, etc after forty years in mainstream churches and spent ten years studying the New Testemant in light of the Old. How can my heart love what my head doesnt know? We don't marry someone after one minute of knowing them do we? How can we know what Yahushua is talking about without a thorough understanding of what He was at the time He came- the Word of YHVH or the Torah. That is what John tells us- He was the Word and that was Torah. He tells us He came to fulfill It not make a new covenant with a new group of people. I simply do not see how we can understand what we profess to believe without this knowledge (as it says in Hosea). One simple proof of this (and our apostacy) is that we observe Christmas and Easter. These are denounced in Scriptures (New and Old T's) as abominations to to the God we say we serve, yet we violate the First Commandment every year by celebrating just these two things.

Until the doctinal issues are fixed there is no point in addressing the structure. The church is apostate by the very fact that we have learned the ways of the gentiles and have broken the 1st Command by having other gods before our Lord, so the structure is a secondary problem. Apostacy means turning from what was once known, and this has been done. Read Overcoming Christianity to understand what I am talking about.

Thanks you for the conversation. I hope I made my points clearly.
Yours in Yahushua,

John

Heres an immediate post by someone who smells a definate rat>>>

Hi John,

Just so that I am understanding correctly. What Jewish roots or understanding are you talking about.. what scriptural 'roots' do you think we nedd to get back to (scripturally speaking). This may help with discussion?

Phil

Now heres where the LEAVEN is introduced. This John character is a real serpent. See how slimey he is as he affirms the Noahide Laws>>>>

Hello again Phil,

Thank you for your response. I'll try to be specific. The two sons the father had are the House of Israel and the House of Judah. These two sons comprised the twelve tribe nation. This is why Yahushua said He came for none but the lost sheep of the House of Israel. This must be understood to understand this parable. While it certainly can be applied to individuals who have strayed and returned, it paints a picture that is woven throught the entire Bible, the redemption and re-unification the these twelve tribes along with everyone who has come to the faith and accepted Yahushua (Jesus) as Messiah. That would be people like me- born into the Greek Orthodox church, raised Roman Catholic, saved at seventeen and finally led to the truth after 25 more years.

Indeed, all of Scripture points to the Cross (see Psalms 22 and 23 and Isaiah), but to trying to understand Shakespeare without the scholarship, allusions, context, and history would be futile, wouldn't it? Why do Christians reject this when it comes to the Bible?

Not only did Paul continually uphold Judaism, he remained an obsevrant Jew his entire life. Many books will support this statement. I don't want to fight, but the church has lost its way and become apostate. This is easily verifiable. Paul, in fact, reinforced the Noahide covenant on incoming believers at the Jerusalem Council. Everything Paul taught is straight from the Old Testement, everything.

This is great topic to discuss further if you would like to.

Thanks.

John

"This is easily verifiable. Paul, in fact, reinforced the Noahide covenant"

 

[jasoncran]

paul didnt enforce the noahide covanent but rather showed tha the lord fullfilled the law by his death on the cross and that we arent under the law as a gentile nor jew. the law is the standard but hasnt the power to change , only the lord changes the heart and we must let him do that..

oh and on the subject

sl actually read up on solo fide, you havent a clue to what that is.

find the member mondar(a calvinist, and biblical scholar of the nth degree) and ask him to clarify.

 

[Strangelove]

missquote, my bad and if one takes that to mean kingdom to isreal, ok lets play this semantics

Isreal is jacob correct in the ot? and two if we are isreal and the kingdom of god is nigh when then why would it need to be restored to us when we are in it. you do believe that then we repent upon salvation we are in kingdom
how then can we come to the throne bodly except we are the lord's subject, and if we are his subjects then are we not in his kingdom.

so then YOU have a problem as that means a contradiction.

He's talking about the Kingdom of Heaven no??

Like New Jerusalem and New Earth? Heaven? Paradise?

We dont have the kingdom yet....we have the Holy Spirit.

The Kingdom will be ours when we have our eternal rest. Cant wait!!

Might be wrong???

 

[TonkaTim]

i love that Doc.
The Lord is Amaaaaaazzzzzing.
zone

Amen!

YHWH is amazing!

Behold the hand, behold the nail

= )

 

[jasoncran]

you are to a degree, as it plainy states in the book of hebrews that we can come boldly to the throne of grace in our time of need, and we also have recieved the spirit of adoption

do you agree that we are the sons of God, and that we have that spirit of adoption whereby we cry abba father?

if the lord is the ruler(he sits on the throne) and we are his sons. what does that mean?
we are IN the kingdom NOW. that doesnt mean that we are in the millenial reign but that we have the assurance of where we will be. some here will argue that the kingdom of God is on the earth at present, btw i dont.

i see it this way, we are in the kingdom and are his representives on a sojourn to reconcile men to God(ambassadors) arent abassadors citizens of the very country they represent? i think so.

and this is the deepest end times study i have ever done.i have gotten more out of this then any church service.

and the noahide thing gives me no fear, as i know where i am headed. HEAVEN

 

[Strangelove]

Amen!

YHWH is amazing!

Behold the hand, behold the nail

= )

That was really interesting about the hand and nail stuff in your earlier post Brother Tonka. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Strangelove]

and the noahide thing gives me no fear, as i know where i am headed. HEAVEN

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER JASON!!!

Amen.

No one in Christ should have any fear.