Bible Study Need help with Matthew 16:28

[By Grace]

Brother Mike said: ↑
A very good reason I don't read or care about commentaries. Most of them were not Spirit filled, tongue talking believers anyway, just men trying to figure out things with natural understanding.

I think you speak of honorable men that you have no knowledge of their relationships with the Lord or Holy Spirit filling.

In your comment you seem to speak against all of us who are not Pentecostal. Why is that, Mike?

 

[Deborah13]

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
(Heb 2:9)

Yes, Michael, His physical body really, really did die. He shed real blood. He tasted real physical death for everyone of us. But not so we won't physically die.

Then you also have to believe it was only Jesus physical death that meant something to us.

Oh my, what does scripture say? He was raised up, so that we may be raised up. If there is no resurrection we are without hope.
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

 

[Brother Mike]

In your comment you seem to speak against all of us who are not Pentecostal. Why is that, Mike?

Speaking in tongues is not just for Pentecostals. However, I see your point, I did not mean for it to come off like that. We all should be at least led by the Holy Spirit though.

Yes, Michael, His physical body really, really did die. He shed real blood. He tasted real physical death for everyone of us. But not so we won't physically die.

Oh my, what does scripture say? He was raised up, so that we may be raised up. If there is no resurrection we are without hope.
1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Jesus said if you believe on me, you shall have eternal life. Jesus thinking we are going to die? We pass from death (The state of not being saved) To life.

How is Jesus looking at being dead? Cmon Deborah.

 

[Deborah13]

Speaking in tongues is not just for Pentecostals. However, I see your point, I did not mean for it to come off like that. We all should be at least led by the Holy Spirit though.



Jesus said if you believe on me, you shall have eternal life. Jesus thinking we are going to die? We pass from death (The state of not being saved) To life.

How is Jesus looking at being dead? Cmon Deborah.

imo.......
In the particular scripture, that we are addressing per the OP, He is speaking about tasting physical death, not spiritual death.

 

[Brother Mike]

imo.......
In the particular scripture, that we are addressing per the OP, He is speaking about tasting physical death, not spiritual death.

Taste in Greek also can mean to experience. Look it up.

It almost seems like your trying to defend some whack preterist view here. Almost like a doctrine is in the way. I said almost.

 

[eddif]

Acts 10:1
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

I will go on after we look here. Peter has just raised Dorcas from the dead in
Acts 9:40
But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

Then we just saw in chapter 10 an angel come and say works have gone to God.

Acts 10:5
And now send men to Joppa, and call for oneSimon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

Peter has a vision / trance of heaven opened and all foods declared clean,

Acts 10:31
And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

And later as Peter presented the gospel

Acts 10:44
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In Acts:
Angels
Works
Rewards
Power of Holy Spirit
Witnessed by circumism party

Anyone jealous of the household of Cornealius ??
I could refine this, but power of the kingdom coming inside us is what is important.

eddif

 

[Deborah13]

Taste in Greek also can mean to experience. Look it up.

It almost seems like your trying to defend some whack preterist view here. Almost like a doctrine is in the way. I said almost.

lol. Michael, there are other people who have commented on this verse who believe that this verse is talking about physical death. Never have I believed otherwise, even when I was Copeland style WoF, rapture believing, etc. It wasn't until recently, within the last yr., that I heard there were people who believe that there are people, who have never physically died.
When I posted from Gill's commentary, I was using it as a witness to what I told Leah; that it wasn't a new idea. That is the only reason I posted it. Which is exactly what I said.

 

[Brother Mike]

lol. Michael, there are other people who have commented on this verse who believe that this verse is talking about physical death. Never have I believed otherwise, even when I was Copeland style WoF, rapture believing, etc. It wasn't until recently, within the last yr., that I heard there were people who believe that there are people, who have never physically died.
When I posted from Gill's commentary, I was using it as a witness to what I told Leah; that it wasn't a new idea. That is the only reason I posted it. Which is exactly what I said.

Well, Jesus does not think we die, because your not paying attention to the verses above it.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Mat 16:24-28)

Jesus said you have to loose your life, take up your cross, Be born again!!! have eternal life.
If you follow Jesus, you shall not taste death.

Paul said Jesus abolished death.

How is this so hard?

Now a preterist would not agree, because it messes up their confused theology.

Jesus is talking about following him, picking up your cross, born again, you will not die, you will not taste death.

Read the above scriptures, what is the context???

Taste is not see, and see is not taste, one means this, and the other means that, and bla, bla, bla........ Amazing.

 

[Deborah13]

Now a preterist would not agree, because it messes up their confused theology.

And so what is your reasoning for others not interpreting that scripture the way you do?

 

[Brother Mike]

And so what is your reasoning for others not interpreting that scripture the way you do?

One, most commentaries are old, their speed at which to reference same words and scripture through a concordance was not there, and no concordance.

We are told to compare, and today we have the tools and speed to compare. I won't get into the rest.

Another, it's pretty simple. Jesus said take up your cross and follow me. Loose your life and you will find life.All in the same passage Jesus said some here will not taste death.
Paul said Jesus abolished death unto eternal life.
pretty easy to understand what Jesus means, since Jesus does not see the believer as dying at any time in those that follow him.

Jesus also said, we will see the Angels and he will judge according to mans works...................... That has not yet happened.
We compare the same with the release of the 6th and 7th seal, same thing. Which has yet happened, the sun is still hanging around.
So only being a preterist could this be so confusing, or just so brand new the concept of eternal life, and Life in Christ is not a reality yet.

I am not the only one that see's the scripture this way, it's also a matter of comparing scripture. If Death has been abolished by Jesus, then Jesus would not think a believer would die that followed him. Death has no more sting, you won't even notice, you here one moment, and bam with the Lord the next. We don't die, ever. We move from the house we are clothed in.

 

[jocor]

Leah781, I agree that it refers to the transfiguration. The "some" of Mt 16:28 were John, Peter and James who saw Yeshua glorified in his Kingdom. We know the transfiguration is a vision of the Kingdom because Moses and Elijah appear in their glorified state as well. That will not happen until after they are resurrected at Yeshua's coming.

 

[JoJoe]

Come on now Brother Mike , certainly the Bible tells us there are different types of death.

Physical death (the separation of the soul from the body), which affects humankind as the result of Adam's sin charged to our account (Romans 5:12-14)

Spiritual death (the separation of the soul from God), a condition transmitted to us from Adam through our ancestors (Ephesians 2:1,5)

Eternal death (the culmination and extension of spiritual death), the eternal separation of the soul from God in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14)

Obviously we don't taste death, Spiritual death and thus resulting into Eternal Death. Our bodies are of this earth so they will perish. (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Psalm 103:14)

This is why we are not to fear the first death but, to fear God for he can kill our soul.(Matthew 10:28)

Back to the OP ..

The three closest disciples were given a preview of what it would be like in the kingdom, this is how Peter describes it in 2 Pt. 1:16-18 “ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with him on the Holy mountain.”

Jesus said previously, some would not die until they see the coming of the kingdom in power.” They did even though it was temporary.

 

[The_Epsicle]

Well, Jesus does not think we die, because your not paying attention to the verses above it.

Jesus said you have to loose your life, take up your cross, Be born again!!! have eternal life.
If you follow Jesus, you shall not taste death.

Paul said Jesus abolished death.

Jesus is talking about following him, picking up your cross, born again, you will not die, you will not taste death.

Read the above scriptures, what is the context???

Taste is not see, and see is not taste, one means this, and the other means that, and bla, bla, bla........ Amazing.

I am not a Preterist, compare your referenced scripture with these:

"While he was saying these things to them, behold, a ruler came in and knelt before him, saying, “My daughter has just died, but come and lay your hand on her, and she will live.” And Jesus rose and followed him, with his disciples. And behold, a woman who had suffered from a discharge of blood for twelve years came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment, for she said to herself, “If I only touch his garment, I will be made well.” Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And instantly the woman was made well. And when Jesus came to the ruler's house and saw the flute players and the crowd making a commotion, he said, “Go away, for the girl is not dead but sleeping.” And they laughed at him. But when the crowd had been put outside, he went in and took her by the hand, and the girl arose. And the report of this went through all that district." - Matthew 9:18-26

"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words." - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

"Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. So the sisters sent to him, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.” But when Jesus heard it he said, “This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.” Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. So, when he heard that Lazarus was ill, he stayed two days longer in the place where he was. Then after this he said to the disciples, “Let us go to Judea again.” The disciples said to him, “Rabbi, the Jews were just now seeking to stone you, and are you going there again?” Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.” After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.” So Thomas, called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”" - John 11:1-16

There is no Death(note the capital"D") for the believer, but as you've mentioned our physical bodies will stop working and our spiritual bodies will be taken to be with Christ in paradise to await the Last Day. I agree the verse is probably referring to the Transfiguration, or possibly Pentecost, I see no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[jocor]

2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Paul knew he could still die.

Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Yeshua.
Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
​

Death has no more dominion over us AFTER we are resurrected from the dead.

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Messiah being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
​

One must first die (be dead) in order to be resurrected from the dead.

 

[Brother Mike]

Paul knew he could still die.

Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Yeshua.
Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
​

Death has no more dominion over us AFTER we are resurrected from the dead.

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Messiah being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
​

One must first die (be dead) in order to be resurrected from the dead.

We are not a body though, As Paul said, the body is a house.

Paul knew he could still die.

Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Yeshua.
Acts 25:11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.
Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
​

Death has no more dominion over us AFTER we are resurrected from the dead.

Romans 6:9 Knowing that Messiah being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
​

One must first die (be dead) in order to be resurrected from the dead.

If Death was abolished, then we can't die, we go from death to life. Not death, life, death, life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
(Joh 8:51-53)
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Mat 16:28)

So if it's after the Resurrection, Jesus lied here. The believer does not die.

I am not a Preterist, compare your referenced scripture with these:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
(Joh 8:51-53)

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Mat 16:28)

When Jesus speaks of death in both verses, to stay alive until Judgement, and see the Angels, He would have to be talking about being In him, and be lost spiritually. We don't die, we go from the body, to be with him, no death.

Now there are verses that speak of our body dying, but not these.

Come on now Brother Mike , certainly the Bible tells us there are different types of death.

Right Joe, we don't die as being lost spiritually. the context of the scriptures.
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Mat 16:24-28)

Jesus is speaking here about following him, taking up our cross, loose our own life. He is not talking about our body, which confused the Jews. We won't see death of any kind. Our bodies will stop functioning, but we are not our bodies, they are just for moving around earth in.

 

[JLB]

Hi, someone recently showed me this scripture in the bible.
(Matthew 16:28)  Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.”

They said it had to do with John and implied that John is still alive today. I have never heard this before. Am I missing something.
What do you think this scripture is referring to? I thought it was referring to the transfiguration. Peter, John and James saw in vision Jesus as a glorious heavenly King. Also in Revelation John has a vision of the time of the end and Jesus ruling as King of his heavenly kingdom.
I see this as a symbolic thing. I have never heard of someone who believes that some people who lived in Jesus day are still alive. Am I out of the loop? I really was stunned, when the person told me this.
I would appreciate any comments. Thanks

The Apostle John saw the Lord Jesus coming in His kingdom, with all the saints, and all the angels and wrote about it for us in Revelation 19.


JLB

 

[turnorburn]

Lots of scriptures being used has anyone used this one?

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

tob

 

[JoJoe]

Jesus is speaking here about following him, taking up our cross, loose our own life. He is not talking about our body, which confused the Jews. We won't see death of any kind. Our bodies will stop functioning, but we are not our bodies, they are just for moving around earth in.

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." —Revelation 21:8

There is a reason its worded second death, because there is a first death.
You can't deny God and Jesus recognize the first death. He even implies it after the bold letters you quoted. And whoever loses his life (Loss of life by definition is death) for my sake shall find it. (Soul)

I understand that after receiving Jesus in our hearts and being bapitized by the Holy Spirit is the death we accept before "Our bodies stop functioning" (C'mon....) and why he tells us to follow him and take up the cross to lay down our LIVES for his sake. The example by which we follow...

I hope you understand I am not disagreeing with you about death being abolished. Doesn't mean we will be exempt from the suffering of the first death. (Unless we are raptured first!)

If Death was abolished, then we can't die, we go from death to life. Not death, life, death, life.

Are you denying Christ Jesus did not go from life to death... To life?
Paul declared that "Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.
(1 Corinthian 15:3-4) Significant... No?

We are living now too Mike. Hence the reborn word being tossed around.

Awaiting pending snarks

 

[AirDancer]

waiting pending snarks

This is Bible Study forum .... no snarking allowed!

 

[The_Epsicle]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
(Joh 8:51-53)

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Mat 16:28)

When Jesus speaks of death in both verses, to stay alive until Judgement, and see the Angels, He would have to be talking about being In him, and be lost spiritually. We don't die, we go from the body, to be with him, no death.

Now there are verses that speak of our body dying, but not these.

That is the exact point I was making but the overall tone of your message seems to reflect disagreement. You seem as if I'm making an argument for soul sleep and I'm not, the people in Paradise are certainly alive in the spirit though their body is dead, their body will be resurrected and reunited with their spirit in perfection on the Last Day but they are alive and completely conscious of the joy of being in the presence of Christ until the Last Day, and certainly after the Last Day.

What I want to know is if you believe some of the people mentioned Matthew 16 will not die until they see the Kingdom of God come in glory as those scriptures say, are you therefore arguing that the Kingdom of God did not come in glory during the Transfiguration which some of those mentioned in those verses witnessed, and if so why? If that is what you're arguing, are you also arguing that when the Holy Spirit came in glory to lead believers that the Kingdom of God did not come in glory, and again, if so why? I'll continue further, are you therefore arguing that John, who was among that group, did not see the Kingdom of God come in glory when he was taken to the Last Day to witness the Kingdom of God coming in glory, and if so why?

So if it's after the Resurrection, Jesus lied here. The believer does not die.

Are you saying Jesus did not die on the Cross? If there was not death, then there is no sacrifice and no resurrection, and if Christ was not raised from the dead, then we have no hope.

"Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied." - 1 Corinthians 15:12-19