Bible Study Need help with Matthew 16:28

[JoJoe]

What point then does Eternal life kick in Joe? Is it like some contract that says after your body dies, then the eternal life part kicks into effect?

Since Jesus abolished death already, then were is the part that you actually experience death? We are spirits, and Ecc says our spirit goes back to God, it does not die, despite our flesh house stops working.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(Jas 2:26)

Your body can't continue to function if your not in it. Just because your not in your body, does not mean your dead, or have died.

Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
(Eph 3:15)

You have family in heaven, and here on earth. Your family in Heaven never died, they just moved. You will see them soon enough.

I hope you don't get to heaven, see everyone and say, "Man, I thought you all were dead." No, they will tell you they never died, they just moved, and glad to see you.

well now I am going to use that one as a joke now. I dust my feet on this one brother.

 

[Brother Mike]

I guess what I can't see in the passage is how the 'until' in the passage can be there and this still be a passage about spiritual death. If the death spoken about is spiritual death then Jesus is saying some here won't die spiritual deaths until they see him coming in (the splendor of) his kingdom, not that they won't ever die a spiritual or physical death.

"...there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste (spiritual) death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matthew 16:28 NASB parenthesis inserted)

If Jesus means physical death then it makes perfect sense to say some here won't die their expected and inevitable physical deaths UNTIL they see his kingdom glory.

They would have to see the angles and His rewarding to every man according to his doings. That has not happened. The Greek Word Until is made up of two words.
Heos (Even unto) (Till) (While) (As far as) (how)
An (Whosoever) (Whatsoever) (Has no English equivalent)

Some translations translated it "BEFORE"

I promise you that some of those standing here will not die before they see the Son of Man coming with his kingdom.
(Mat 16:28) CEV
Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.
(Mat 16:28) AMP
Mat 16:28 Truly I tell you, some people standing here will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
ISV
so on................................................
They will not die before they see...........

Some translations just leave you scratching your head thinking........... What the heck where they smoking?

This isn't pie in the sky by and by. Some of you standing here are going to see it take place, see the Son of Man in kingdom glory."
(Mat 16:28) (Message Bible)

I guess we get pie later, I don't know.

I would not get to hung up on those two Greek words though.

In John, Jesus told the Jews the same thing, you will not see death. So what he said in Matthew is the same thing. You won't taste death, you will see.


Be blessed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In John, Jesus told the Jews the same thing, you will not see death. So what he said in Matthew is the same thing. You won't taste death...

...until...
Not 'never' taste death.
That's what I'm reading in the text.

 

[Brother Mike]

...until...
Not 'never' taste death.
That's what I'm reading in the text.

It would be so, if it where not two Greek words put together with tons of different meanings, one Word not having a proper English translation.

Wait here until I get back would means you wait, until.
Not taste death until you see.......... means you die right after the show.

However, read it as it seems right to you. To me, if Jesus said we believe on him, we have eternal life, I see no reason why Jesus would ever think we would die. Something the Jews did not understand.

Mike.

 

[eddif]

I Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

And how did this kingdom come?

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Kingdom in us

eddif

 

[Leah781]

Brother Mike I wanted to know if you thought that there are people who are thousands of years old. I made it clear that I meant they are living in the same body they were born in. The are fleshly and live on earth.
What I think you are telling me is that if our bodies stop functioning, we must now move to a different home. Which I presume is heaven. Basically that is what a lot of people believe, you die and go to heaven. But you don't seem to want to use the word die.

Remember my basic question, I was shocked that someone told me that Matt 16:28 meant that there are people alive on the earth today that have been living since Jesus was on the earth.
Please tell me if I understand you correctly. People have been alive since Jesus was on earth because they never "died" but "moved" from their bodies to heaven. This just seems to be a game of semantics.

Yes I do, you compare scriptures, and Jesus is talking about the time of the end, after the 6th and 7th seal. So, Jesus is speaking literally.
We have to always, always compare exact scriptures. We even have to pray. Some things in the Word being hard need lots of other foundation to understand. In once case, the Lord mentioned something to me that did not make sense at all. I asked him about it, but no answer.

What I did not understand is that I needed another 8 years of foundation to finally understand what He said. Had He just told me, I would not have gotten it.

Follow with me, since you asked, I'll tell you what he meant. We have to read the scriptures above also.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
(Mat 16:24-28)

Jesus said, who shall loose their life shall find it. Already we see Jesus view on death, is looking way beyond just your body dying.
Jesus is not saying kill ourselves and we shall find our life. He is talking about a heart condition, and our whole life, not our physical body.

Jesus said, There be some standing here which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man in His Kingdom.

In Revelation 19, we are with him, coming down, we see the whole thing.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
(Rev 19:13-14)

Compare another Scripture. The Jews had the same question you did.

And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
(Joh 8:50-52)

Did John die? Nope
Are you going to die? Nope.
We are no longer subject to Death. Death has no sting, no victory. Jesus was not talking about our bodies dying.

2Co_5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Paul looks at our physical body as some house we live in. We are not a flesh body though, we live in a flesh body.

Look what Paul said:
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
(2Ti 1:10)

Now you know what Jesus meant about tasting death. Even the Jews questioned him about this.

Be blessed.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike I wanted to know if you thought that there are people who are thousands of years old. I made it clear that I meant they are living in the same body they were born in. The are fleshly and live on earth.
What I think you are telling me is that if our bodies stop functioning, we must now move to a different home. Which I presume is heaven. Basically that is what a lot of people believe, you die and go to heaven. But you don't seem to want to use the word die.

Remember my basic question, I was shocked that someone told me that Matt 16:28 meant that there are people alive on the earth today that have been living since Jesus was on the earth.
Please tell me if I understand you correctly. People have been alive since Jesus was on earth because they never "died" but "moved" from their bodies to heaven. This just seems to be a game of semantics.

OK, you understood correctly. Paul said Jesus abolished death for us, so if there is no death, then we don't die. However, it might be confusing to some.

Is A person really physically dead here? NO.
Col_2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Dead bury their dead:
Luk_9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Did Jesus mean that dead folks can bury other dead folks? NO, they were dead in sins, but it's how He looked at things.

Jesus said we don't die anymore:
And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. Last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
(Luk 20:31-33)


And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
(Luk 20:34-36)

Jesus said here, those saved, or those worthy can not die anymore. We don't die, that is how Jesus looked at it.
So Jesus corrects them, they don't die, and none are given in marriage.

Jesus did not deny that we will physically die though.
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
(Joh 11:11-14)

Even the disciples where confused on How Jesus looked at death. To Jesus, the body dying was not the end of it. Jesus was just going to wake him up. Jesus saw they did not understand and said........ Lazarus is dead.

I hope this helps. It is the way words are used, but Jesus would not consider those having eternal life to have to die. That is why He confused the Jews when He said it again in John.

Be blessed.

 

[Deborah13]

I hope this helps. It is the way words are used, but Jesus would not consider those having eternal life to have to die. That is why He confused the Jews when He said it again in John.

I think that if you admit this scripture Matt. 16:28, is talking about physical death, you can't see how it could compliment your eschatology. I don't know why you cannot, other futurist do.

 

[Brother Mike]

I think that if you admit this scripture Matt. 16:28, is talking about physical death, you can't see how it could compliment your eschatology. I don't know why you cannot, other futurist do.

Other futurist do? As I suspected, I am not reading it from a futurist view point. I am examining it with how Jesus viewed taking up your cross and following him. Jesus even said to the marriage question......... "They shall never die"


Jesus said the same, some standing here shall not taste death before they see the coming of the son with Angels, and Jesus rewarding to every man according to his works.

Nobody has seen Jesus come with the angels as Mat 24, the sun has never gone out, the stars have never been removed, and no judgement has been given yet. Jesus said I judge not, but on the last day, there is judgement.

That is scriptures. Not a futurist point of view, now if pretreism does not line up with scriptures, it's time to change.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus said the same, some standing here shall not taste death before they see the coming of the son with Angels, and Jesus rewarding to every man according to his works.

Why make the point of some there not tasting death before or until they see the Son of Man coming in kingdom glory if no one there will ever die? That's what I'm not getting, Mikey.

 

[The_Epsicle]

Jesus said the same, some standing here shall not taste death before they see the coming of the son with Angels, and Jesus rewarding to every man according to his works.

No he didn't say that, the coming of the Kingdom and the Last Day are different events. He said the Son of Man will come and give judgement and that is most certainly true, but this is what he said concerning the people standing there at that time:

"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." - Matthew 16:28

Nothing about judgement. Then with the Transfiguration:

"And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only. And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist." - Matthew 17:1-13

Peter was among them, here's how Peter describes it:

"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain." - 2 Peter 1:16-18

Did Jesus come with the Kingdom? Yes He did, this is clear from Mark and other books of the Gospel:

"Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”" - Mark 1:14-15

"Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." - Matthew 12:25-28

"Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”" - Luke 17:20-21

So everyone present when Jesus said that had seen the Kingdom of God come, whether they knew it or not, but specifically Peter, James and John were eyewitnesses to the coming of the Kingdom.

 

[Brother Mike]

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Any Angles mentioned in Mat 17? NO.
Every man get rewarded according to his work in Mat 17? NO
So the transfiguration is not going to wash.
John also said we beheld his Glory, His glory was seen long before Mat 17

I already posted scriptures Jesus said we would not die, and Kingdom of God is not used in Mat.

However, you made me look at this again. Luke's account I believe is the same account, but worded a bit different.


For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
(Luk 9:26-27)

In Luke's account we don't see the Son of man coming. Jesus said you see the Kingdom of God, not Him coming. The coming with His angels could be a separate event than seeing the Kingdom.

This very well could mean some won't taste death until they see the Kingdom of God operate in power.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
(Joh 8:51-52)

That still does not take away Jesus thought on what death meant, and could be plugged in to Mat account.

The Word given years later by the Holy Spirit. Many places the meaning of what Jesus said is expounded by different accounts, and the Holy Spirit taught what Jesus was saying, not his exact wording.

I will say you could be right.

However, back to the OP, Jesus still said, if we keep his sayings we shall never see death.

Mike

 

[By Grace]

<SNIP>

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
(Joh 8:51-52)
<SNIP>
Mike

Are you aware that is the same justification that the Seventh Day Adventist church uses to have its people worship on Saturday? No, I am not throwing rocks, but I AM saying that this verse has been used many times to support the idea of "sinless perfection" and other things.

 

[Edward]

In short, Yes, I'm one of those who believe that it is possible and likely that some who walked the earth when Jesus did could still be around. I'm not sure if I understand it well enough to debate it or prove it but I can't deny that God could and may have done this.

Brother Mike has posted some of the scriptures that led me to this belief, but I really think that it's unimportant to theorize on it much, because it is non-salvific anyway. I like the accounting of this interaction the way John recounts it:

John 21:
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true./

Little things like wont people notice, or would he age and stuff like that...Even if one or more were still alive, a very small thing for God to overcome to let the man continue in his ways without anyone catching on. Nothing is impossible for God and no one can "catch" God at anything, lol.

 

[Deborah13]

but on the last day, there is judgement.

I agree, Judgement Day is in the future.

 

[Deborah13]

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true./

imo
The one spoken of in verse 23, is the Apostle John. He did die, (physically).

Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

 

[Edward]

imo
The one spoken of in verse 23, is the Apostle John. He did die, (physically).

Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

I've heard this before, and it makes all sorts of sense...but, was he actually identified, or is that just a really good presumption?

 

[Brother Mike]

Are you aware that is the same justification that the Seventh Day Adventist church uses to have its people worship on Saturday? No, I am not throwing rocks, but I AM saying that this verse has been used many times to support the idea of "sinless perfection" and other things.

I did not know that. I just assumed Jesus was rubbing the Sadducee's the wrong way since they did not believe in any life after physical death. Through Jesus, we have everlasting life, and I thought it was that simple.

How do they get sinless perfection from this? I don't see it in there.

In short, Yes, I'm one of those who believe that it is possible and likely that some who walked the earth when Jesus did could still be around. I'm not sure if I understand it well enough to debate it or prove it but I can't deny that God could and may have done this.

Brother Mike has posted some of the scriptures that led me to this belief, but I really think that it's unimportant to theorize on it much, because it is non-salvific anyway. I like the accounting of this interaction the way John recounts it:

.

Edward, I was not saying they are still running around. I was pointing out to how Jesus looked at death. His idea of having eternal life through Him did not mean we died. So if someone followed him, then they would not taste death. I would love to see Paul though if He was still around.

I agree, Judgement Day is in the future.

well, Good to have one agreement, since the lack of agreements have been running far to long.

Blessings everyone, thank you By Grace for bringing that to my attention.

Mike.

 

[Edward]

I did not know that. I just assumed Jesus was rubbing the Sadducee's the wrong way since they did not believe in any life after physical death. Through Jesus, we have everlasting life, and I thought it was that simple.

How do they get sinless perfection from this? I don't see it in there.



Edward, I was not saying they are still running around. I was pointing out to how Jesus looked at death. His idea of having eternal life through Him did not mean we died. So if someone followed him, then they would not taste death. I would love to see Paul though if He was still around.



well, Good to have one agreement, since the lack of agreements have been running far to long.

Blessings everyone, thank you By Grace for bringing that to my attention.

Mike.

Yeah I know brother. But still, it could be possible according to the wording and could even have been necessary in some way for God's plan. Who knows? I try'n keep an open mind about things that are not so clear in scripture. I thought about the other angle too. ...not taste of death...that could mean a few things. First it could be an indication of Paul's statements to be true (about our body merely being a house) and that when we pass on, our self/being/consciousness moves on also to our new house, never having tasted of death, just a move. More than likely, a move which happens in the twinkling of an eye.

For that matter, the same thing could happen to all those who believe. When they pass on, they don't die but just get their consciousness transfigured into a spiritual body. He could take them without pain or anything, just whoosh, gone.

 

[The_Epsicle]

Question for you Mike, I need some clarification on something you have not been so clear on. Do you believe that someone who believes in Christ will have a physical death(their physical body stops working)?