Bible Study Need help with Matthew 16:28

[Tony Hyman]

I was looking up on Bob Utley and he seems to go strongly with the "transfiguration" option Mark 9:1-2 in close proximity with the context on Matthew 17 "transfiguration".
Although he does admit it's a difficult passage to interpret.It could well be anyone of the suggestions already put forward here as I see it. That's the safest way out I guess.

 

[eddif]

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

First our minds are changed by believing in what Jesus Christ accomplished in the first resurrection.
Then
At the last trump our flesh will be changed.
Meanwhile
We deal with this body of death.

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was pointing out to how Jesus looked at death. His idea of having eternal life through Him did not mean we died.

Jesus plainly acknowledged the death of those who believe in him. He even does it in the same sentence where he says they will never die:

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die." (John 11:25-26 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The 'before', or 'until' in Matthew 16:28 (take your pick) negates any suggestion that Jesus is talking about a death that never happens.
'The death that will never happen to you won't happen until...'
That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jesus plainly acknowledged the death of those who believe in him. He even does it in the same sentence where he says they will never die:

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life.He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die." (John 11:25-26 NASB)

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
(Joh 11:25-26)

How can one be dead, and believe in Him?

Mat_8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Luk_9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

How can dead people bury their dead people?

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

How can one believing pass from death unto life?

Also you--being dead in the trespasses and the sins,
(Eph 2:1)

How can you be dead and still sin?

There is a Very Good Reason I don't use the NASB.

Mike

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is a Very Good Reason I don't use the NASB.

In context, Lazarus has just died. He's talking about physical death. 'Lazarus is dead, but he will live, even though he died'. He's not talking about spiritual death. Jesus openly acknowledged physical death, even Lazurus' death, a believer, and called it what it is:

"14 So Jesus then said to them plainly,"Lazarus is dead" (John 11:14 NASB)

 

[Brother Mike]

In context, Lazarus has just died. He's talking about physical death. 'Lazarus is dead, but he will live, even though he died'. He's not talking about spiritual death. Jesus openly acknowledged physical death, even Lazurus' death, a believer, and called it what it is:

"14 So Jesus then said to them plainly,"Lazarus is dead" (John 11:14 NASB)

What does that have to do with the other verses? Jesus considers us dead, until we believe in him. He told his disciples that Lazarus is asleep, they said........ Well then, He is just resting. Then he had to plainly tell him that he was physically dead.

What are you striving for here, and how many verses do I need to show you until you see what I am saying?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What are you striving for here, and how many verses do I need to show you until you see what I am saying?

Oh, I know what you're saying. That's not the problem. The problem is you have not addressed the topic of post 84 that I've been repeatedly bringing up but which so far has only gotten (appreciated) likes from Deborah and no comments from you:

The 'before', or 'until' in Matthew 16:28 (take your pick) negates any suggestion that Jesus is talking about a death that never happens.
'The death that will never happen to you won't happen until...'
That doesn't even make sense.

 

[The_Epsicle]

In case you missed it:

Question for you Mike, I need some clarification on something you have not been so clear on. Do you believe that someone who believes in Christ will have a physical death(their physical body stops working)?

I know you are not required to answer this question, but I would like a direct answer "Yes" or "No" before I continue in this discussion.

 

[Brother Mike]

In context, Lazarus has just died. He's talking about physical death. 'Lazarus is dead, but he will live, even though he died'. He's not talking about spiritual death. Jesus openly acknowledged physical death, even Lazurus' death, a believer, and called it what it is:

"14 So Jesus then said to them plainly,"Lazarus is dead" (John 11:14 NASB)

I am sorry, You keep throwing these scriptures at me. I prove a set of them, then you say, well, I guess that was not it, but how about these scriptures. I am loosing track of what the main request is here.

If you read my response in 72, Jesus says till.
Mat 16:27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

We have not seen him come with the Angels, not been rewarded as that is at the end, and not seen him coming to rule (Kingdom) None of this has taken place.

However.

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
(Luk 9:26-27

Jesus talks about the same thing here, but He says they shall not taste death till they see the Kingdom of God. Not just Jesus coming to rule.

One he says that shall not taste death until they see him coming.
One says that they shall not taste death until they see the Kingdom of God.

They certainly did see the Kingdom of God before they died, and will not be ashamed when He comes with the Angels.

Since the Holy Spirit is the one that gave us what Jesus meant, not always exactly what He said, else everything would be exact, and Jesus said if we have eternal life we go from death to life, then both accounts mean something different, but are correct.

Mike.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Hi, someone recently showed me this scripture in the bible.
(Matthew 16:28)  Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his Kingdom.”

They said it had to do with John and implied that John is still alive today. I have never heard this before. Am I missing something.
What do you think this scripture is referring to? I thought it was referring to the transfiguration. Peter, John and James saw in vision Jesus as a glorious heavenly King. Also in Revelation John has a vision of the time of the end and Jesus ruling as King of his heavenly kingdom.
I see this as a symbolic thing. I have never heard of someone who believes that some people who lived in Jesus day are still alive. Am I out of the loop? I really was stunned, when the person told me this.
I would appreciate any comments. Thanks

Hi Leah,
There is more than just a few verse to explain about the Kingdom. It starts at the beginning when Adam lost dominion of the earth to Satan. Satan is the ruler of the earth, He is the prince of the power of the air. (Eph. 2:1-2) The LORD calls out Abraham to be a seed to which the promise of a redeemer (Gen. 3:15) would come. His promise to Abraham and His creation was that He would make of thee a great nation and a blessing to all the families of the earth.(Gen. 12:1-3). He Confirms it again to Isaac his son after Abraham's death. (Gen. 26:1-5). And He confirms it again to Jacob (Isaac's son) (Gen. 28:13-15; 35:11-12). After the Hebrews wind up in slavery to Egypt. (Book of Exodus) The LORD rescues them out of Egypt and they march around in the desert for 40 years because of unbelief. (Heb. 3:16-19) Israel is a Theocracy under God's direction and will. After 40 years Joshua was anointed by God to be Shepard of Israel. After Joshua God made them Judges. All this I'am writing is explained in Acts chapter 7. Israel was led by Judges for about 400 years. Samuel was the last Judge of Israel for they decided they wanted a King like other nations. Saul was the first king and was disobedient to the LORD's instructions. God rejected his leadership and David became King. God makes a Davidic Covenant with King David of Israel. The covenant is formed in 2 Sam.7: 5-19. It is a perpetual covenant. After King David the monarch was one mostly vile and disobedient. But The Davidic Covenant was still to be honored. (Ps. 89)

Christ Is The seed of the Son of David in the flesh and the Son of God with power in The Spirit.(Rom. 1:1-5) There are many more Scriptures, but you can find and study them. In Matthew His Genealogy starts with Son of David, for Matthew is the Gospel of Christ presented as the King of Israel (Son of David). So, what did Christ preach when He started His ministry? He took up where John The Baptist left off. (Matt. 3:1-17) (4:17; 23-25). From Matt. 5 thru Matt. 7:29 Jesus, The Son of David and The Son of God preaches the Constitution of the Kingdom of the Heavens.(Heavens is plural in the original script) There are 3 heavens in Scripture (2 Cor. 12:2). Understand, This is not the "Kingdom of God". It is in the Kingdom of God but not the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of Heaven pertains to the Davidic Covenant God made with Israel. And the Christ preached that Gospel. It was not till after He was rejected as The Messiah (Matt. Chapter 12). It is then He begins to talk in parables of the mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven,(Matt. Chapter 13) And how it will be till He returns. After that he does not preach the Kingdom of Heaven again, but begins to prepare the apostles for His crucifixion. For the Kingdom of God. That is what is called the Gospel of the Grace of God. So The nation of Israel and it's rightful heir are put off till some other time. In Acts Chapter 1, The risen Christ begins to tell them of things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is where God's throne is. It also includes Israel, The Church, all angelic beings, and every person that has returned to the loving obedience of the Lord (on earth and in heaven) It includes all those from Adam until the end judgement of all those who belong to Christ.

He has risen and Christ is sitting on the throne of the right hand of God (Heb.12:2). and many saw Him as He ascended in to the clouds. He sent the Holy Spirit. He is King of kings and Lord of lords 1 Tim. 6:16. So many saw Him ascend to His Throne before they passed.

The Apostles preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom and the Grace of God in Jesus The Christ.
In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[Leah781]

Hi Leah,
There is more than just a few verse to explain about the Kingdom. It starts at the beginning when Adam lost dominion of the earth to Satan. Satan is the ruler of the earth, He is the prince of the power of the air. (Eph. 2:1-2) The LORD calls out Abraham to be a seed to which the promise of a redeemer (Gen. 3:15) would come. His promise to Abraham and His creation was that He would make of thee a great nation and a blessing to all the families of the earth.(Gen. 12:1-3). He Confirms it again to Isaac his son after Abraham's death. (Gen. 26:1-5). And He confirms it again to Jacob (Isaac's son) (Gen. 28:13-15; 35:11-12). After the Hebrews wind up in slavery to Egypt. (Book of Exodus) The LORD rescues them out of Egypt and they march around in the desert for 40 years because of unbelief. (Heb. 3:16-19) Israel is a Theocracy under God's direction and will. After 40 years Joshua was anointed by God to be Shepard of Israel. After Joshua God made them Judges. All this I'am writing is explained in Acts chapter 7. Israel was led by Judges for about 400 years. Samuel was the last Judge of Israel for they decided they wanted a King like other nations. Saul was the first king and was disobedient to the LORD's instructions. God rejected his leadership and David became King. God makes a Davidic Covenant with King David of Israel. The covenant is formed in 2 Sam.7: 5-19. It is a perpetual covenant. After King David the monarch was one mostly vile and disobedient. But The Davidic Covenant was still to be honored. (Ps. 89)

Christ Is The seed of the Son of David in the flesh and the Son of God with power in The Spirit.(Rom. 1:1-5) There are many more Scriptures, but you can find and study them. In Matthew His Genealogy starts with Son of David, for Matthew is the Gospel of Christ presented as the King of Israel (Son of David). So, what did Christ preach when He started His ministry? He took up where John The Baptist left off. (Matt. 3:1-17) (4:17; 23-25). From Matt. 5 thru Matt. 7:29 Jesus, The Son of David and The Son of God preaches the Constitution of the Kingdom of the Heavens.(Heavens is plural in the original script) There are 3 heavens in Scripture (2 Cor. 12:2). Understand, This is not the "Kingdom of God". It is in the Kingdom of God but not the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of Heaven pertains to the Davidic Covenant God made with Israel. And the Christ preached that Gospel. It was not till after He was rejected as The Messiah (Matt. Chapter 12). It is then He begins to talk in parables of the mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven,(Matt. Chapter 13) And how it will be till He returns. After that he does not preach the Kingdom of Heaven again, but begins to prepare the apostles for His crucifixion. For the Kingdom of God. That is what is called the Gospel of the Grace of God. So The nation of Israel and it's rightful heir are put off till some other time. In Acts Chapter 1, The risen Christ begins to tell them of things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is where God's throne is. It also includes Israel, The Church, all angelic beings, and every person that has returned to the loving obedience of the Lord (on earth and in heaven) It includes all those from Adam until the end judgement of all those who belong to Christ.

He has risen and Christ is sitting on the throne of the right hand of God (Heb.12:2). and many saw Him as He ascended in to the clouds. He sent the Holy Spirit. He is King of kings and Lord of lords 1 Tim. 6:16. So many saw Him ascend to His Throne before they passed.

The Apostles preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom and the Grace of God in Jesus The Christ.
In Christ
Douglas Summers

Do you believe that the current nation of Israel and the Jews living there today have a part to play in the unfolding of God's purpose? You said " The nation of Israel and it's rightful heir are put off till some other time." Are you talking about Jesus taking on his role of King of God's Heavenly Kingdom?

 

[eddif]

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

eddif

 

[Douglas Summers]

Do you believe that the current nation of Israel and the Jews living there today have a part to play in the unfolding of God's purpose? You said " The nation of Israel and it's rightful heir are put off till some other time." Are you talking about Jesus taking on his role of King of God's Heavenly Kingdom?

Hi Leah, Yes. When Christ appeared to His Apostles at Pentecost, they asked Him a question, "....wilt thou at this time restore the Kingdom of Israel." (Acts 1:6) For forty days The Lord had been instructing the Apostles "of the things pertaining to The Kingdom of God," teaching them out of the Scriptures (Lk. 24:27,32,44-45). Except one point was left untouched,"the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel." Notice The Lord does not rebuke them (it was a valid question) It would come in it's due time. He tells them it will be up to the Fathers own time. But now they were to wait for the promise of the power of The Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel starting at Jerusalem. (Acts 1: 6-8)

The Gospel of "The Kingdom" (The restoration of the nation of Israel to it's former glory) will be preached by the 144,000 during the Tribulation. (Matt. 24:13-14; Rev. 7: 1-8; 1 Cor. 15: 22-28). This is what the disciples of Christ preached. (The Kingdom and Jesus The Christ) (Acts 15: 14-18) (Act 8: 12; 20: 20-27; 28: 23, 31.)

In Christ
Douglas Summers

In Christ
Douglas Summers