No Charges against God's Elect !

[RoadDebris]

road:



I would have to disagree with you on that. Its part of the Gospel of God's Grace. Salvation is by the Election of Grace Rom 11:

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace [election of grace], then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

It's how the Gospel works but people don't have to aware of it or accept it be saved. There were thousands of saved people existent long before Paul ever wrote a single letter.

"In essentials unity; in nonessentials liberty; in all thing charity" - Augustine

 

[savedbygrace57]

road:

It's how the Gospel works but people don't have to aware of it or accept it be saved.

Thats part of the Gospel message, it explains How and Why God saves by Grace. If you neglect to teach election in salvation, you fail to witness Truthfully.

I am explaining more about this in my thread about the gospel !

http://www.christianforums.net/f17/gospel-kingdom-shall-preached-31101/index4.html

If you look at this thread, start at post #58

There were thousands of saved people existent long before Paul ever wrote a single letter.

The Gospel did not start with Paul's writings, it began in the garden of eden to be proclaimed. God preached the Gospel to Abraham Gal 3:8

Then you must understand something else, God called Paul to preach the Gospel, and Jesus prayer is for those who shall believe on Him through their [Apostles] word Jn 17:

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

And by the providence of God we have their word preserved by the NT scriptures..

 

[Eventide]

Dude, are you questioning someone's salvation or is that a false inference on my part? You're aware that election is a nonessential issue, right? You're aware that we're saved by grace through faith in Christ, not saved by grace through faith plus agreeing with you on predestination, right?

I'm questioning his salvation by asking him what Romans 5:18 means.. you are losing it dude.. maybe you need to take a break or something..

 

[Elijah674]

Back into the Subject I find [Present Day Truth] violating this Title as seen in Eze. 9. So it [IS] that the statement in this 'Title' can ONLY APPLY to [IF & WHEN] the Eternal Condition's are also FACTUAL!

Re: No Charges against God's Elect! This is ONLY 1/2 Gospel Truth for who knows who these 'ELECT ARE' but God? When you read the verses of Eze. 9, you will find who ONLY THESE ELECT are! There are NO IF AND OR BUTTS ABOUT WHO THEY ARE! And who it is that are CHARGING THE LORD'S PAST/TENSE WITH CHARGES AGAINST GOD??

These guy's think like Truth for last year is still truth for today! Does that remark puzzel you? Just say that you borrowed for your car morgage & then payed it off. Do you still owe the 'OLD' morgage? is that still the Truth???
These ones of Eze. 9 ARE ALL PAST/TENSE GOD DOCUMENTS!

--Elijah

 

[RoadDebris]

road:



Thats part of the Gospel message, it explains How and Why God saves by Grace. If you neglect to teach election in salvation, you fail to witness Truthfully.

I am explaining more about this in my thread about the gospel !

http://www.christianforums.net/f17/gospel-kingdom-shall-preached-31101/index4.html

If you look at this thread, start at post #58



The Gospel did not start with Paul's writings, it began in the garden of eden to be proclaimed. God preached the Gospel to Abraham Gal 3:8

Then you must understand something else, God called Paul to preach the Gospel, and Jesus prayer is for those who shall believe on Him through their [Apostles] word Jn 17:

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

And by the providence of God we have their word preserved by the NT scriptures..

SBG, I understand it's the truth. I understand the the Gospel was first revealed in the garden, but that doesn't change the fact that people are not saved by having complete understanding of predestination. People are saved by grace through faith in Christ, not grace through faith in Christ plus full theological knowledge and acceptance of election. We have no authority to add things in there, even if those things are true.

 

[RoadDebris]

I'm questioning his salvation by asking him what Romans 5:18 means.. you are losing it dude.. maybe you need to take a break or something..

Lol, now you're a psychologist.

If you say someone must agree with you on election to be saved then you are adding to the Gospel. That is wrong. Your desire to have people support your views on nonessential issues is not a licence to question their salvation. That's over the line.

 

[RoadDebris]

These guy's think like Truth for last year is still truth for today! Does that remark puzzel you? Just say that you borrowed for your car morgage & then payed it off. Do you still owe the 'OLD' morgage? is that still the Truth???
These ones of Eze. 9 ARE ALL PAST/TENSE GOD DOCUMENTS!

--Elijah

All truth is absolute. If you paid off your mortgage is would still be absolute true that you were previously in debt. When you start talking about truths that aren't absolute you start veering away from rational thought.

 

[Eventide]

Lol, now you're a psychologist.

If you say someone must agree with you on election to be saved then you are adding to the Gospel. That is wrong. Your desire to have people support your views on nonessential issues is not a licence to question their salvation. That's over the line.

You're the only one who has suggested that I'm questioning his salvation.. which is silly. I've asked to give an interpretion of Romans 5:18 and your interpretation of that means that I'm questioning if someone is saved or not.. lol.. that is pretty funny and typical.

Good work RD.. lol

 

[RoadDebris]

You're the only one who has suggested that I'm questioning his salvation.. which is silly. I've asked to give an interpretion of Romans 5:18 and your interpretation of that means that I'm questioning if someone is saved or not.. lol.. that is pretty funny and typical.

Good work RD.. lol

Maybe English as a second language is the problem here? I asked a question. Most rational people would infer that that means I'm not sure and am seeking clarification. If you are not saying "Agree with me and God on election or burn in hell" then great. Carry on.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: No Charges against God's Elect !

Originally Posted by Elijah674

These guy's think like Truth for last year is still truth for today! Does that remark puzzel you? Just say that you borrowed for your car morgage & then payed it off. Do you still owe the 'OLD' morgage? is that still the Truth???
These ones of Eze. 9 ARE ALL PAST/TENSE GOD DOCUMENTS!

--Elijah

All truth is absolute. If you paid off your mortgage is would still be absolute true that you were previously in debt. When you start talking about truths that aren't absolute you start veering away from rational thought.

Elijah again:
All that you are falsely teaching with that post, is that the MORGAGE had NO Condition! In other words, you quote the promise in the Bible as did satan to Christ in Matt. 4:6 which also left out the ETERNAL CONDITION (see Psalms 91:11 Forum) of Deut. 6:16, whch Christ quoted back to him too!

​

 

[RoadDebris]

Sooo...I'm falsely saying that all truth is absolute? Ummm...yeah. I thought I was in a conversation with a rational person. Nevermind.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rd:

but that doesn't change the fact that people are not saved by having complete understanding of predestination.

Thats besides the point, predestination and election are foundational Truths of the gospel, if a person who claims to be saved and believe the gospel, and yet does not believe in election and predestination, then they do not believe the gospel..Read Eph 1:3-11 both election and predestination are in Paul's Gospel summary..

People are saved by grace through faith in Christ

Yes, however the Gospel explains Why and How thats done !

not grace through faith in Christ plus full theological knowledge and acceptance of election.

If you do not preach election in your gospel, then you do not preach grace, for election is the foundational Truth for Grace Rom 11:

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul even explains here how the remnant jews will be saved by Grace, notice he adds election in it !!

And jews are saved in the same way as gentiles for thats clear here acts 15:11

But we[jews] believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they[gentiles].

We have no authority to add things in there, even if those things are true.

We have no authority to neglect things that are True to the Preaching of the Gospel of God's saving Grace..

 

[RoadDebris]

Thats besides the point, predestination and election are foundational Truths of the gospel, if a person who claims to be saved and believe the gospel, and yet does not believe in election and predestination, then they do not believe the gospel..Read Eph 1:3-11 both election and predestination are in Paul's Gospel summary..

If salvation is contingent on acceptance of the doctrine of election then who was Paul writing to in Ephesians? Non-Christians? If the recipients were Christians already then your assertion is proven false. Certainly you don't think Paul was writing to Christians to tell them things they already knew from the beginning? C'mon.

If you do not preach election in your gospel, then you do not preach grace, for election is the foundational Truth for Grace Rom 11:

Dude, have you read very many of my posts? I'm a pretty strong advocate of God's sovereignty. I just don't claim things are essential that are not. Keep it real.

 

[Sam21]

The biblical definition of an elect is one who has been forgiven of sins and given the indwelling Holy Spirit,therefore no one could be an elect before conversion. The error is in calling folks elect when they are not elect according to the bible.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam:

no one could be an elect before conversion.

Thats a lie, thats like saying one could not be a sheep before conversion..

 

[savedbygrace57]

road:

If salvation is contingent on acceptance of the doctrine of election then who was Paul writing to in Ephesians?

I never said salvation was contingent upon acceptance of doctrine, dont twist and misrepresent what I stated, I stated that election and predestination are Gospel Truths..

Dude, have you read very many of my posts? I'm a pretty strong advocate of God's sovereignty. I just don't claim things are essential that are not. Keep it real.

Election by grace is essential in the Gospel of God's Grace, what are you talking about ?

 

[RoadDebris]

road:



I never said salvation was contingent upon acceptance of doctrine, dont twist and misrepresent what I stated, I stated that election and predestination are Gospel Truths..



Election by grace is essential in the Gospel of God's Grace, what are you talking about ?

I'm saying that people's salvation is not contingent on each of them saying "Yeah, God chose me specifically to be saved before time began." It' absolutely true that everyone who is saved is specifically predestined to that salvation, but whether they know of or accept their election doesn't alter it. I'm reminded of R.C. Sproul's response when he was asked if Arminians are saved: "Yes, barely." Let's keep it real.

 

[reba]

I'm saying that people's salvation is not contingent on each of them saying "Yeah, God chose me specifically to be saved before time began." It' absolutely true that everyone who is saved is specifically predestined to that salvation, but whether they know of or accept their election doesn't alter it. I'm reminded of R.C. Sproul's response when he was asked if Arminians are saved: "Yes, barely." Let's keep it real.

Amen Road

Armenian or calvin? Just as the folks labeled armenian can have differences so do folks labeled calvinist.

 

[savedbygrace57]

road:

I'm saying that people's salvation is not contingent on each of them saying "Yeah, God chose me specifically to be saved before time began."

No ones salvation is not contingent on that but preaching the Gospel is contingent upon proclaiming those Truthes, and if you preached the Gospel the way it should be preached, people would know that up front.

There is no way around it, either you preach the True Gospel of Gods Grace which includes election of Grace and predestination or you do not.

It' absolutely true that everyone who is saved is specifically predestined to that salvation

And thats a Gospel Truth that should be Preached, thats part of being saved by Grace and Why and How..Eph 1:4-11

You neglect these gracious Truthes in the preaching of the Gospel of God's Grace, you corrupt the Gospel..

 

[RoadDebris]

No ones salvation is not contingent on that but preaching the Gospel is contingent upon proclaiming those Truthes, and if you preached the Gospel the way it should be preached, people would know that up front.

There is no way around it, either you preach the True Gospel of Gods Grace which includes election of Grace and predestination or you do not.

"You" as in me? Again, if you've read very many of my posts you already know that I do that. However, election is generally not part of Christianity 101. It's a bit more advanced (IMO). I think this is backed up by the fact that Paul was having to break it down to the Church in his epistles.

You neglect these gracious Truthes in the preaching of the Gospel of God's Grace, you corrupt the Gospel..

Again, it's absurd to admonish me that way, given what I've been arguing for here, for God's sovereign choice. Keep it real.