No Charges against God's Elect !

[savedbygrace57]

road:

However, election is generally not part of Christianity 101

Yes it is, its the simple Gospel of God's Grace Rom 11:


5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Are you telling me salvation by Grace is not basic Gospel Preaching ?

 

[RoadDebris]

road:



Yes it is, its the simple Gospel of God's Grace Rom 11:


5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Are you telling me salvation by Grace is not basic Gospel Preaching ?

Are you genuinely having a hard time understanding what I'm saying? C'mon. In my opinion, understanding predestination is not rudimentary theology. What does someone who has just immediately received faith need to understand? Why not look at the Bible for the answer?

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.†- Acts 2:38-39

How about Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8? You see any break down of predestination there, other than Christ's mission as the Messiah? According to your logic Philip was neglecting his duty, yet he was led by the Spirit to speak as he did. Your view just doesn't match the biblical model.

 

[savedbygrace57]

road:

Are you genuinely having a hard time understanding what I'm saying?

No, its you who is having the hard time understanding what I am saying. Is Preaching salvation by Grace in the Gospel fundamental or not ?

Rom 11:


5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Sam21]

rd:



Thats besides the point, predestination and election are foundational Truths of the gospel, if a person who claims to be saved and believe the gospel, and yet does not believe in election and predestination, then they do not believe the gospel..Read Eph 1:3-11 both election and predestination are in Paul's Gospel summary..



Yes, however the Gospel explains Why and How thats done !



If you do not preach election in your gospel, then you do not preach grace, for election is the foundational Truth for Grace Rom 11:

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Paul even explains here how the remnant jews will be saved by Grace, notice he adds election in it !!

And jews are saved in the same way as gentiles for thats clear here acts 15:11

But we[jews] believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they[gentiles].



We have no authority to neglect things that are True to the Preaching of the Gospel of God's saving Grace..

predestination and election are taught by Paul,however Paul did not teach the predestination and election that YOU teach. The NT definition of elect is ALWAYS a person that has been converted to Christ,before conversion people are called lost and without God,you are trying to teach that a person is one of the elect BEFORE conversion,something that Paul did not teach.

 

[RoadDebris]

predestination and election are taught by Paul,however Paul did not teach the predestination and election that YOU teach. The NT definition of elect is ALWAYS a person that has been converted to Christ,before conversion people are called lost and without God,you are trying to teach that a person is one of the elect BEFORE conversion,something that Paul did not teach.

You're putting God in a box. God is not subject to time.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sam:

predestination and election are taught by Paul,however Paul did not teach the predestination and election that YOU teach.

Yeah right..

 

[reba]

No one taught me calvinism i didn't know what /who calvin was until about 12 years ago. The label man gave me came from scripture. I got kicked out of chats because of the scriptures i posts finely now i understand why the dislike/hatred toward anything calvin.

The teachings i see from SBG are not the teaching i learned from scripture. I understand your anger way better now,Eventide. You will still call me a calvinist but i do see why you have that hateful edge in your posts.

 

[RoadDebris]

No one taught me calvinism i didn't know what /who calvin was until about 12 years ago. The label man gave me came from scripture. I got kicked out of chats because of the scriptures i posts finely now i understand why the dislike/hatred toward anything calvin.

The teachings i see from SBG are not the teaching i learned from scripture. I understand your anger way better now,Eventide. You will still call me a calvinist but i do see why you have that hateful edge in your posts.

I can relate. Reformed Theology definitely has it's enemies. Our family attended a Calvary Chapel church when we lived in a small town a few years back. We were at a Bible study and the pastors wife was speaking of the horrors of those who don't believe the claims of those who say they can speak in tongues or who think our choice is not the cause of our salvation. You should have seen the look on her face when I spoke up and said I was one of those people and that our differences were non-essential and that she was obligated to agree to disagree with me. Classic.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Redeemed from the curse of the Law !



Gal 3:13

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

When were the elect of God redeemed from the curse of the Law ? It certainly will not be denied that its because of the cross work of Christ for His People that they do not come under the curse of the Law and damnation, simply because He was made curse for them, on their behalf and in their stead.

Now that we know why the elect are not cursed cursed by the Law, when were they redeemed from it's curse ? Lets look at Matt 25:34

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Yes, from the foundation of the world. You see they were already blessed, eternally blessed with the blessings of the cross, redemption from the curse of the law before they became actual law breakers in adam and in themselves [ Eph 1:3-4] and the merits of His death for His Chosen People was likewise in effect before one word of creation was spoken into existence. This is why we have scriptures like 1 Pet 1:20 and Rev 13:8.

In God's Eternal Purpose, Christ had already been slain for the sins of the elect hence Rev 13:8

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The word slain here in the greek is in the perfect tense, a perfect passive participle= Having been slain from the foundation of the world ! Now, it's His having been slain that redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13.

Now lets look at Matt 25:34 more closely. Jesus saying to those on His right hand, intimating His Sheep whom He gave His life for per Jn 10:11,15 He calls them blessed of His Father. The word blessed it is also a perfect passive participle in the greek= Having been blessed, when ? I believe it tells us in the verse, from the foundation of the world ! The same exact phrase found in Rev 13:8.

Jesus states that there had been a Kingdom Prepared for them from the foundation of the world, so thats how long they have been blessed. Now where not all those eternally blessed for whom God had prepared an eternal kingdom for ? I would say so.

The word prepared is the greek word hetoimazo and means:

to make ready, prepare

to make the necessary preparations, get everything ready
metaph.

drawn from the oriental custom of sending on before kings on their journeys persons to level the roads and make them passable
to prepare the minds of men to give the Messiah a fit reception and secure his blessings

Also the word prepared is in the greek a perfect passive participle, Just as the word blessed and the word slain from Rev 13:8

This Kingdom was specifically prepared from the foundation for a specific blessed People, the Sheep on Christ right hand.

The word prepared is also used of Christ here Matt 20:23

23And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

This certainly lets us know that God already has personally selected individuals for positions in His coming eternal Kingdom.

You see, it did matter whether or not if these Individuals had been born yet sinners or not, they already had a blessed position in Heavenly Glory Prepared for them of the Father, so they are blessed already from the curse of the law, by the slain blood of the Lamb.

The word prepared in Matt 20:23, it also is a perfect passive indicative in the greek.

So when were these redeemed from the curse of the Law ? It was from the foundation, Just as its so for those Sheep on Christ right hand in Matt 25:34

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[savedbygrace57]

When were the sins of the elect, those Christ died for, actually charged to Christ ? I know when He actually died for them in 33 ad upon the cross, however, were they not charged to Him way before that ? When did He recognize them as His charge and obligation ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

He was charged with the sins of the elect whenever He became their surety.

Heb 7:22

22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Well what is this Better Testament or Covenant ? Scripture mentions the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Scripture also speaks of Christ goings being from everlasting Mic 5:2

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

I favor the NIV 1984 on this verse

2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.â€

Or from days of eternity !

I believe the Great Shepherd of the Sheep was established as the surety from the days of eternity in the everlasting covenant, He covenanted to shed His blood for His Sheep. If so, Their sins were then charged to Him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So the Surety and those He is Surety of, both cannot be charged with sins, else God would be unjust in the matter, but scripture says "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

The Son of God from everlasting struck hands to become Surety Prov 6:1

My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

You see this scripture Illustrates the essence of being a Surety, its to take on their responsibility and liabilities legally. A Surety becomes a guarantor, Christ was obligated by the Terms of the Everlasting Covenant or Compact with the Father to compensate for the debt of sin the sheep contracted in their sin in Adam Rom 5:12, and so, they never legally had sin imputed to their charge except as it was charged to their Surety, thats what Paul means in 2 Cor 5:19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God the Father was in Christ by terms of the Everlasting Covenant, He being their Surety, reconciling the world [of the elect] legally unto Himself, not imputing their Trespasses against them, because He imputed them unto their Surety. The Father in all Justice cannot and will not impute them to both the trespassers and their Surety. So the Trespassers are legally free from legal Condemnation because of the legal Condemnation of their Surety.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Because Christ was Charged with their Sins !

The Lord Jesus Christ as the Head and Surety of God's People, in the terms of the everlasting covenant of grace, gave His bond as their Surety in the Covenant, and God the Father having accepted Christ as their Surety Heb 7:22, cannot look for payment from the Elect themselves, so Paul writes Rom 8:33-34


33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

If God would have payment for their sins, He must have it from Christ whom the debt has been laid 2 Cor 5:21

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[Elijah674]

Its quite simple, no charges can be laid on the elect of God, because they were laid on the elect of God Christ Jesus..The elect bore the sins of the elect..

This from another site reminds me of your postings! (and your amen corner) We (you & 'i') see God with different VISION!


[FONT=Verdana,arial]MMarc wrote: [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,arial]Don't worry when something ends then something always begin.[/FONT]


Hi, 'i' see worry as sinful. But Godly CONCERN for all the lost surely is required! Rev. 3:16. And do you see 1 Cor. 6:2-3??

Never would I want to meet Jeff's NAME (if that were to be the case) in the Eccl. 12:13-14 accurate Books finding that he was not there because of my neglect of Heb. 12:4-8 Sin of Omission!

Most of today's lost think that these hard duties of God (strange Act even) are because He has pre/programed them to Lovingly Burn Them Eternally in hell!

Anyhow, YES.. I am CONCERNED for a few here who are maturing as in Luke 12:47-48's WRONG DIRECTION!
But Not worried. Yet, even so, when looking over these Record Books, I am sure that there will be many tears shed for lost ones because of my neglect. Eze. 9 AND!! it is not until the heavenly city decends to earth that all tears will be swept away.

Even think of Adam & Eve whose first born son Cain was lost because of their sin! And how the Godhead felt with the Fall of Lufifer??
And Christ with the shortest verse of His Word!

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

God's Elect !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Any person that is one of God's Elect, God does not ever have any charge of sin against them. From the time they are first conceived in their mother's womb,until their dying day, like the thief on the cross, God did not ever charge him for his sins as a thief, though the powers that be did. The reason this so, is because God had already charged them upon Christ !

 

[savedbygrace57]

God is not Unjust to charge sin to the Elect !


God is not Unjust to charge sin on those, for whom He charged them [sins] upon Christ. We know that God had charged Christ with their sins before He died by His Testimony here Jn 10:15-18

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Now when Christ receive this commandment of His Father ? It certainly was before the time He was speaking the words to that audience in Jn 10 ! He received it in the Suretyship setup of the Everlasting Covenant, it was His engagement performance to Lay down His Life for those God charged Him with their sins !

Now lets imagine that one for whom Christ died, is brought into this and does at that time begin to commit sins and iniquity, and transgressions, all of which, God had before time taken all those same sins, transgressions and etc and charged them to Christ, then how could it ever be Just with God to transfer them from Christ, and to then charge them on the one Christ hath died already for ? After Christ hath by His Blood paid the full redemption price for them ! 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Then whatever also happened to the Fact that Christ hath purified them from sin ? Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Its a Truth, God does not Lay charges of sin against those Christ died for ! Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[farouk]

"Who shall condemn us now?
'Tis Christ that died, is risen, and gone above,
For us to plead at the right hand of love,
Who shall condemn us now?"

Horatius Bonar

 

[savedbygrace57]

"Who shall condemn us now?
'Tis Christ that died, is risen, and gone above,
For us to plead at the right hand of love,
Who shall condemn us now?"

Horatius Bonar

When did God ever condemn the elect ?

 

[farouk]

When did God ever condemn the elect ?

s57: I think the hymnwriter Bonar was thinking of it from the perspective of the consciousness of the repentant sinner. Blessings.

 

[savedbygrace57]

s57: I think the hymnwriter Bonar was thinking of it from the perspective of the consciousness of the repentant sinner. Blessings.

That could be, but when did God ever charge His Elect with Sin ?