No condemnation in Christ Jesus !

[Webb]

Childseye---Of course I love him---but hate his doctrine!

 

[savedbygrace57]

John 3:18

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Many look at this verse and read into it the ideal that the elect are at sometime in their life condemned, perhaps when they are still in unbelief by Nature.

However, that is not what Jesus is saying in the text. Jesus is stating what is manifestly true of those He faced during His Public Ministry.

Those who were believing on Him gave evidence of not being condemned, that is their sins never were charged or imputed against them, and so their believing on Him gave evidence of that.

On the other hand, those not believing on Him was giving evidence that they were under condemnation for their sins, that is , their sins were never charged to Him as their substitute, and their not believing gave evidence to that fact..

They are believing not simply because as Jesus stated later they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26


26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So, whoever is not of Christ Sheep, which He died for Jn 10:11,15 then their sins are still being charged against them.

The Sheep on the other hand, will come to be believing, because their sins have been charged to Him, and consequently, they were never condemned for them.

So Jn 3:18 is no rebuttal against the Truth of the Fact that the elect are never condemned legally by God for their sins, because they have always been in Christ and their sins were never imputed to their Charge Legally.

 

[childeye]

John 3:18

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Many look at this verse and read into it the ideal that the elect are at sometime in their life condemned, perhaps when they are still in unbelief by Nature.

However, that is not what Jesus is saying in the text. Jesus is stating what is manifestly true of those He faced during His Public Ministry.

Those who were believing on Him gave evidence of not being condemned, that is their sins never were charged or imputed against them, and so their believing on Him gave evidence of that.

On the other hand, those not believing on Him was giving evidence that they were under condemnation for their sins, that is , their sins were never charged to Him as their substitute, and their not believing gave evidence to that fact..

They are believing not simply because as Jesus stated later they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26


26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

So, whoever is not of Christ Sheep, which He died for Jn 10:11,15 then their sins are still being charged against them.

The Sheep on the other hand, will come to be believing, because their sins have been charged to Him, and consequently, they were never condemned for them.

So Jn 3:18 is no rebuttal against the Truth of the Fact that the elect are never condemned legally by God for their sins, because they have always been in Christ and their sins were never imputed to their Charge Legally.

So what about Paul? He was in unbelief. What about Truth? Is it impotent against lies? For Saul was transformed and sight was given to him and he became the Apostle Paul.

 

[Saltwater]

Hello SbG57, after reading your post I get the impression you believe Christians can never come under condemnation. Is my conclusion of your opinion correct?

If so I would encourage you to look at two scriptures which show how Christians can come under condemnation -noting the context (addressed to those who are christians)

1Tim3:6 not a new convert, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.

1 Tim 5:11-12
11 But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, 12 having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith (NKJV)

 

[savedbygrace57]

salt

Hello SbG57, after reading your post I get the impression you believe Christians can never come under condemnation.

Never, that is under God's Legal condemnation Rom 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God has never and will never impute sin to there charge.

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Eventide]

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,[/B] who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You forgot perhaps the most important emphasis for this verse.. WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH..

Flesh gives birth to flesh...

Spirit gives birth to Spirit..

This is why we must be born again.. because all flesh is clearly condemned in scripture..

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Also, if any person can't see that the deeds of the flesh (described in Gal 5) are condemned.. and that the life of the Spirit is justified.. then they're closing their own eyes to the truth.

 

[savedbygrace57]

even

You forgot perhaps the most important emphasis for this verse.. WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH..

I didn't forget it, because one is in Christ before they walk not after the flesh, that merely means that now they walk by Faith. God reveals to them by Faith their Eternal Union in Christ.

Those whom Christ died for, God does not have any reason to hold them in condemnation, because Christ died for their sins, He was condemned in their place,[Rom 8:33-34] but they did not know that until its made known to them. When its made known, they walk by Faith in the Knowledge of it, and not after the flesh..

because all flesh is clearly condemned in scripture..

Not the flesh of the Elect, Christ died for and redeemed all of them, Their body's belong to God, its not condemned, though still sinful..

1 Cor 6:13

Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

Christ has condemned already all the sins that the elect can commit in the flesh !

Rom 8:3

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

Christ was condemned for all the sins the elect will ever commit in the flesh, so sin has no claim or power over them.

Their sinful bodies of flesh will soon receive its Adoption ! This Adoption is because of its redemption in Christ Rom 8:23

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body

I have went over this with you in the past, not doing it again, if you insist that the Flesh of the Elect is condemned for sin, then you speak contrary to the accomplishment of the Death of Christ.

 

[Eventide]

even



I didn't forget it, because one is in Christ before they walk not after the flesh, that merely means that now they walk by Faith. God reveals to them by Faith their Eternal Union in Christ.

I completely disagree.. one is not in Christ until the repent and believe the gospel and then God seals them with the Holy Spirit of promise. Prior to this we were without Christ and dead in trespasses and in sins.

Those whom Christ died for, God does not have any reason to hold them in condemnation, because Christ died for their sins, He was condemned in their place,[Rom 8:33-34] but they did not know that until its made known to them. When its made known, they walk by Faith in the Knowledge of it, and not after the flesh..

Then perhaps you can explain what Romans 5:18 means..

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[savedbygrace57]

even

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation

I have went over this with you many times before. The condemnation here that belonged to the elect fell upon Christ.. Thats why He died, for the condemnation that was due the all men He represented and was their Surety.

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Clearly this points to Christ by His death received the condemnation due to them. Now God injustice cannot condemn both the elect and Christ for their sins..

 

[Eventide]

even



I have went over this with you many times before. The condemnation here that belonged to the elect fell upon Christ.. Thats why He died, for the condemnation that was due the all men He represented and was their Surety.

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Clearly this points to Christ by His death received the condemnation due to them. Now God injustice cannot condemn both the elect and Christ for their sins..

Romans 5:18 means exactly what it says.. it's that simple.. and we know this for a fact because FLESH gives birth to FLESH and that's our ADAMIC nature.. condemned.. and again the deeds of the FLESH are clearly pointed out for us in Gal 5 versus the fruit of the Spirit of Christ which is in us..

It should be painfully obvious that our OLD MAN (Adamic nature) is not justified before God and that it is condemned for every single man in Adam... even AFTER a person is saved.. it's not their old nature according to the FLESH whch is justified.. it's the LIFE of CHRIST in us that is justified.

This is like Bible 101 imo..

And it's a biblical fact that we were NOT in Christ prior to believing the gospel.. but rather dead and lost in trespasses and in sins as scripture plainly states..

The only reason men rationalize these simple truths away is so that they can maintain some man made doctrine which says that God unconditionally chose them.. and that THEY are the ELECT.. as if God chose Christ AND them rather than Christ IN them.

 

[Saltwater]

salt



Never, that is under God's Legal condemnation Rom 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God has never and will never impute sin to there charge.

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Greetings savedbygrace57,

I note that you made no comment to explain the two Timothy verses I quoted.

I would encourage you to respond to verses quoted in replies to your comments so us readers & fellow Christians can see how you view verses which challenge your beliefs.

As Christians 'speaking the truth in love' eph4:15 helps us grow in maturity so we are not 'blown around by every wind of doctrine.'

Please note that the two 1Tim verses I quoted clearly show examples of Christians who come under condemnation due to their behaviiour - one comes under the same condemnation of the devil & the others cast off their faith.

As we are saved by grace thru faith then to cast off one's faith leads to loss of salvation. For a new convert to come under the same condemantion as the devil would suggest the same fate as the devil.

Looking forward to your explanation of how these two Timothy verses do not challenge your view that Christians can never come under condemnation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

salt

I note that you made no comment to explain the two Timothy verses I quoted

I am not here to explain scriptures you bring to the table, I am explaining the ones I bring to the table. And since you show unbelief in the ones I am currently explaining, I am not going to put forth an effort to explain your scriptures. Its your job to show how your scriptures disprove what I have said, that you have failed to do..

 

[savedbygrace57]

even

Romans 5:18 means exactly what it says.. it's that simple

Well I gave you my response, you believe it or you don't..Dont expect me to be answering a bunch of your questions I have repeatedly answered before. In the future you will need to take time and research my previous posts. Thats what the function is for..

 

[Eventide]

even

Well I gave you my response, you believe it or you don't..Dont expect me to be answering a bunch of your questions I have repeatedly answered before. In the future you will need to take time and research my previous posts. Thats what the function is for..

Yes, same here.. I respond, you agree or you don't... and I understand that you can't answer many questions that are directed your way..

You typically don't agree with my opinion and I typically don't agree with your opinion.. no surprise there.

 

[Saltwater]

salt



I am not here to explain scriptures you bring to the table, I am explaining the ones I bring to the table. And since you show unbelief in the ones I am currently explaining, I am not going to put forth an effort to explain your scriptures. Its your job to show how your scriptures disprove what I have said, that you have failed to do..

To the Moderators,

My reply to the above comments by savedbygrace57 is going to contain some good old fashioned Aussie sarcasm. If this style is not acceptable for the forum please let me know & I will alter my writing style.

Hello SbG57,

Oh my goodness, please accept my most humble apologies for not knowing your unwritten rules for undertaking theological debate with you. If only I had known that the only scripture verses to be discussed are those raised by you I would not have wasted my time mentioning two scriptures that disprove your view that Christians will never come under condemnation.

Oh the time wasted looking up Bible verses where I should have spent my time critiqing your verses!!

The angst & distress I have experienced since discovering this fact have been almost overwhelming!!! But nevertheless, thanks to my strong constitution and yes, my faith in the Lord, I will recover although it’s going to take some time in prayer & Bible reading.

Now where I have I seen this type of response before? (‘I am not here to explain scriptures you bring to the table; I am explaining the ones I bring to the table.’)

Oh yes, that’s right, when I’m talking with or having a Bible study with Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons. ‘Look Mr Saltwater, we’re not here to discuss verses that you raise. We’re here to talk about our verses.’

I ask you SbG57 would you please check the following verses in your Bible/s – 2Tim3:16-17.

I am concerned that your Bible/s may say the following – v16…….only scripture provided by SbG57 is profitable for teaching for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.’

Now that you’ve checked your Bible/s lets move on to the verses I mentioned. But first I feel the need to explain some rules of mine when reading the Bible since I don’t want you wasting your time.

The Bible is to be read according to the laws of grammar. The meaning of words comes from the context in which you find them. Otherwise you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to (eg. JWs Mormons, Bahaias, New Agers etc.) I could say more but I’m sure you get the idea.

Another one I like is that Scripture interprets Scripture (except when discussing theological issues with SbG57!!!!).

Now let’s have a simple look at one of those pesky verses that you have no desire to comment on.

1Tim3:6 not a new convert, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.

Hmm, the grammar seems fairly simple.
Subject = new convert
Subject modifying phrase = being puffed up with pride
Verb = falls
Modifying verb phrase = into the same condemnation as the devil
That seems pretty simple to understand so let’s give it a go.
A new convert (obviously a Christian) puffed up with pride will fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
There we go. That’s pretty easy to understand.

SbG57, how about you give the next verse a go?
1 Tim 5:11-12 11 But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, 12 having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith (NKJV)

In conclusion SbG57, in order to prove your views are correct you must deal with verses provided by other Christians that challenge your views per 2Tim3:16-7 noting the teaching & correcting portions of that verse. By refusing to answer such verses you are doing yourself no favours in your desire to grow into maturity in Christ which is something I am sure you desire to do.

I do look forward to having some ‘fair dinkum’ (Aussie phrase) opportunities to have some meaningful talks with you about the Scriptures but only when you are prepared to put 2Tim3:16-7 into practice.

 

[savedbygrace57]

No condemnation in Christ Jesus !

Rom 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus !

Paul means by this " NOW" the discovery of it, the No Condemnation status ! For God's Elect; For God's Elect, those whom Christ died for, are always, even before they believe free from condemnation, because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of His Son [See Rom 5:10] and on account of Christ's Mediatoral Work, and because they had been Chosen IN Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4]. Now the Elect in time have a first time discovery of their Justification ' for Christ's sake" by the Spirit of God and The Gospel, so it is now said of them, that walk not according to the flesh [unregenerate] but do walk after the Spirit, and what the Spirit revealed to their Faith. To walk after the Spirit is the same thing as walking by Faith.

So no one Christ died for in the flesh can be condemned for sin of any kind, because He came in the likeness of sinful flesh and all their sins were condemned, so that He condemned sin in the Flesh of those He died for. Rom 8:3

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

God reveals this blessed Truth to them, and they now understand that they never have been condemned, because in order for Christ to be condemned for their sins in the flesh, they had to be imputed to Him and not to them[2 Cor 5:19], and if they were not imputed to them, they were not condemned for them, but He was !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Made Vessels of Mercy !


The Elect, all those Christ died for, and who had been chosen in Him and given Grace in Him before the foundation of the world, for they could never had under God's condemnation and wrath as per Jn 3:18,36, not even as unbelievers and enemies because God created them specifically as vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Their whole created existence as sinners was in order that God would demonstrate His Mercy unto them apart from others who are also born sinners, but as vessels of wrath were they created !

God created them for Mercy and in due time they shall fear God properly, and then shall it be manifested, what saith the psalm 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Condemnation is without Mercy James 2:13

For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Judgment here is the greek word krisis:

sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment

The Vessels of Mercy have never been under God's sentence of condemnation , but always, from everlasting, under His mercy !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 8:33-34 When does God condemn the Elect ?


33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

When does God ever lay any charge against His Elect ? When does He ever condemn them ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 8:1


Rom 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Believers did not know it until they had it revealed to them by The Spirit.

There has never been anyone in Christ who God condemns. Just exactly when are those Christ died for, begin to be in Christ Jesus ?

Well in the Reckoning and Purpose of God, they were in Christ Jesus before the World began, when Grace was given them in Him then 2 Tim 1:9

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This was before they merited the condemnation they did in Adam in Time Rom 5:18a

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

But this their condemnation, was not imputed to them, God did not charge them with it, but He charged it to Christ Jesus their Head !

The condemnation incurred them in Adam was not charged to them legally, because they were in Christ Jesus their Head !

Now this non condemnation is not known to them until their New Birth by the Spirit, then or Now they do walk according to the Spirit's revelation. So now it can be said Rom 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The Now emphasizes the coming into the Knowledge of it , but not the sentence of it just then being True from God's Perspective. For God never imputed any sin unto them in the First Place, but to Christ in their stead !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Some of my favorite writers are sadly mistaken, that the elect, while in a state of nature as in Eph 2:3, are yet under God's condemnation and wrath, but nothing can be further from the truth. It is for those very sins and the condition we find ourselves in by nature, that Christ hath bare the penalty for, He has been condemned already and took up their cup of God's wrath on all their behalf, and His Resurrection being a evidence of their Justification from condemnation ! How can they therefore be born into the world under God's condemnation and wrath ? Scriptures like Rom 1:18 cannot apply to them ! God's Elect cannot be condemned by God even while in nature as per Eph 2:3 ? Has not God's wrath and Justice been appeased and vindicated through Christ's sacrifice ? So it is very inconsistent with Gospel Truth to say that while in a state of nature only, that the elect are under God's Wrath and Condemnation, for in fact they are under His Covenant Mercy, and have been Justified from all Transgressions for Christ's Righteousness Sake ! It is impossible for the elect of God to be Justified in Christ, but condemned in Adam at the same time, to be under God's Mercy in Christ, and wrath in Adam !