No Pretrib Rapture

[Consecrated Life]

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

When Jesus comes with clouds, immediately after the tribulation of those days after many have taken the mark of the beast, then while He is still in the air he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other and we who are Christ own alive or in the grave will be caught up together to meet Him in the air.

So with every eye seeing Jesus coming with Almighty Supernatural power such as the world has never seen, why would anybody be mystified or wondering, about this ?
Duh !

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory
Please consider this,

Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. Act.4:25-26 KJV

Peter is quoting Psa.2 as a currect reality. He's saying the Messiah defeated this worlds' system already by His resurrection.
It tells us to go to battle the same way. He's defeating the powers of darkness by His Spirit in us. This is not cleat (it's cloudy) to unbelievers,

...I will come to you. Jn.14:18 KJV

You have to read the full context in Acts 4:1-31 like that of Psalms 2 that makes it even clearer to get your answer to your question. This is speaking about Peter and John before the council of the priests, and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees who threaten and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

 

[brother Paul]

So we don't have to expect Jesus coming until after the Anti-Christ is in power ?

Matthew 24:44
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

That is correct! His coming (the parousia) will not catch US off guard as a thief in the night for we are of the day (as Paul also tells us), He also tells us there will be two events that precede the Parousia

a) the great falling away (which has begun now) and
b) the revealing of that man of sin, so stay alert

James5:7 agrees abd says - Therefore, be patient brethren,until the coming of the Lord.

1. James - Bishop of the 1st Church ever…in Jerusalem…He was appointed to be the Bishop according to tradition by Christ and the Apostles
   
2. Seeing that earlier in chapter 4 James speaks of how we treat our neighbor (those not of our family or group who we live near and interact with), who are the “brethren” (a word used to denote family or close members of an order or group), they are the Church, the Spirit filled believers
   
3. When does James suggest to these brethren that they should stay patient until? Until the parousia, the coming…

James is speaking to his brethren, the original Spirit filled JerusalemChurch… (the family of God by the Holy Spirit in them BEFORE they went out into the world) and the members and close associates of this group (in other words we arespeaking about saved Christians!

The answer to c, “until when” is “the coming of the Lord.” The word “coming” found here, is ALSO the Greek word “Parousia”

 

[brother Paul]

Be ready! Not one of the group who are in the Church in Matthew 25:1-13. They claim to have been saved and are doing all the Churchianity stuff but Jesus did not know them (Romans 8:9) like those in Matthew 7 whho He NEVER knew,

 

[miamited]

Hi all,
Of course for the believer it makes no difference when Jesus returns if we are doing as he has asked us when he does.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

That is correct! His coming (the parousia) will not catch US off guard as a thief in the night for we are of the day (as Paul also tells us), He also tells us there will be two events that precede the Parousia

So who is Jesus giving this admonition to then ?

Matthew 24:44
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

 

[miamited]

So who is Jesus giving this admonition to then ?

Matthew 24:44
"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

You know, I never equated stupidity with being a believer. It clearly says 'hour'. But the Scriptures are pretty clear about the season in which these things will happen. That's all that Jesus is speaking of here. We need to be ready for we do not know the hour of his return, but we have been warned of the season, as regards things that will be going on, when he does.

Consider that even when we see the Antichrist rise to power, we still won't know the 'hour' of his return. We will only know, just as Jesus has told us, that the time is at hand, standing at the door. But the 'hour' that he opens that door and proceeds to come on the clouds to collect those who are his, will be unknown until the moment that he appears in his glory.

God bless,
Ted

 

[for_his_glory]

So with every eye seeing Jesus coming with Almighty Supernatural power such as the world has never seen, why would anybody be mystified or wondering, about this ?
Duh !

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

It's only those who have rejected God and His Son Christ Jesus who will be mystified as they have no truth found in them and the door of salvation will be closed forever when He returns giving no one a second chance

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[brother Paul]

You know, I never equated stupidity with being a believer. It clearly says 'hour'. But the Scriptures are pretty clear about the season in which these things will happen. That's all that Jesus is speaking of here. We need to be ready for we do not know the hour of his return, but we have been warned of the season, as regards things that will be going on, when he does.

Consider that even when we see the Antichrist rise to power, we still won't know the 'hour' of his return. We will only know, just as Jesus has told us, that the time is at hand, standing at the door. But the 'hour' that he opens that door and proceeds to come on the clouds to collect those who are his, will be unknown until the moment that he appears in his glory.

God bless,
Ted

Amen

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Notice this verse says that even those who pierced Him will see Him coming with clouds. They, like anyone who has died, are for now still in their grave, so this takes us to what Jesus taught in Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28-29; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

We pierced Him. Gentiles from every nation on eath
who come to faith have wept for the sins we've committed against Him. That's all it says.

When Jesus comes with clouds, immediately after the tribulation of those days after many have taken the mark of the beast, then while He is still in the air he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other and we who are Christ own alive or in the grave will be caught up together to meet Him in the air.

I was taught that for many years, although even back then it didn't mesh with all scripture.
The 4 winds are the horsemen. We've already been gathered from them by our faith in Jesus. We don't need to fear those spirits.
As for tribulation, believers have endured it throughout time. The only difference there has ever been on earth is that it was once endured by God Himself and I believe this is the key understanding the abomination which brings desolation. The Sanhedrin and Rome desecrated His Temple.

We are to live our life holy and blameless before the Lord, Ephesians 1:3-6.

Yes and notice in Eph.1:2-12, Paul speaks of how God blessed the Jews. He doesn't speak of when gentiles were blessed until vs.13.

We are told not to be weary, but to endure all things as Christ helps us and strengthens us that we do not waver in faith.

That's what I'm saying. We're in the war now. We're conquering false prophets and beasts now.

Rev:14:14-16 The one upon the white cloud is an angel as Jesus stated in Matthew 13:39 that the reapers are angels sent to come at the end of the age. The angel on the white cloud wears a symbolic crown of gold which means Gods’ great authority given to him as he waits for the angel that comes out from Gods presence to declare it is now time to take the sharp sickle in his hand which represents the reaping of the harvest as the timing has now come on earth to separate the wheat from the tares, Matthew 13:24-43.

I was taught this also. I believe John is showing us a perspective of how Heaven views us reaping Gods' harvest. When our Lord returns ut's judgment day. Peter tells us the heavens and earth are consumed in fire by Jesus' appearing. Just another way of saying,

the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev.20:11 KJV

 

[journeymanisnothing]

You have to read the full context in Acts 4:1-31 like that of Psalms 2 that makes it even clearer to get your answer to your question. This is speaking about Peter and John before the council of the priests, and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees who threaten and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

I have read it. I know Peter said it because they were being threatened but he's quoting Psa.2 about what happened to the Messiah. We're being made in His image, but we're not Him.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It's only those who have rejected God and His Son Christ Jesus who will be mystified as they have no truth found in them and the door of salvation will be closed forever when He returns giving no one a second chance

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Why would anyone give a thought to this person, or that person not being around when they see Jesus Christ coming in Glory & Power in way that the whole world can see ?
Of what importance would that be when you are looking at the Lord or Lord's and King of Kings in Glory right in front of you ?
For that matter why would anybody be thinking about anything other than seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in great power and Glory ?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Why would anyone give a thought to this person, or that person not being around when they see Jesus Christ coming in Glory & Power in way that the whole world can see ?
Of what importance would that be when you are looking at the Lord or Lord's and King of Kings in Glory right in front of you ?
For that matter why would anybody be thinking about anything other than seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in great power and Glory ?

Good question. The answer is they wouldn't, unless they saw Him working in themselves. In other words, unless Christ displayed Himself through believers following the Spirit.

It seems like whenever the Apostles taught on speaking in Gods' name or representing Christ to mankind they were far more reverent in how they spoke.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Good question. The answer is they wouldn't, unless they saw Him working in themselves. In other words, unless Christ displayed Himself through believers following the Spirit.

It seems like whenever the Apostles taught on speaking in Gods' name or representing Christ to mankind they were far more reverent in how they spoke.

It makes no sense to me for the terrible Day of the Lord in the Brightness of His coming to be happening in the face
of unbelieving people terrified and fleeing for their lives, who at the same time will be taking stock of :
" Gee , I wonder where Ellen ran off to hide at "
Or " Before I run to hide myself under a rock , I better find where Joe is hiding .

You already have said these would be God rejecting unbelievers we are talking about .
It is against the selfish carnal nature of humans to be concerning themselves of where this person or that person or ran off to hide at with their own certain death at stake , with the Brightness of His coming & the terrible Judgement in their face.
They are going to be concerned only with saving themselves.

For me the only reason that Christ has mentioned one person taking notice of another person being gone is because it is a stand alone event that happens separate prior to His coming in Power & Glory & thus merits people taking notice of it .

It makes no sense to me for Christ to mention people noticing other people being gone in conjunction with the moment that hundreds of millions of people are being killed, and desperately fleeing & hiding for their lives in God's terrible Day of Judgement .
Why would anyone notice such a thing as they themselves are desperately fleeing in absolute terror to survive ? ? ?

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would anyone give a thought to this person, or that person not being around when they see Jesus Christ coming in Glory & Power in way that the whole world can see ?
Of what importance would that be when you are looking at the Lord or Lord's and King of Kings in Glory right in front of you ?
For that matter why would anybody be thinking about anything other than seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in great power and Glory ?

I really do not think it is going to matter who is here or not here as long as we have done our best as being a servant of God and be about His business until Christ returns.

 

[brother Paul]

It makes no sense to me for the terrible Day of the Lord in the Brightness of His coming to be happening in the face
of unbelieving people terrified and fleeing for their lives, who at the same time will be taking stock of :
" Gee , I wonder where Ellen ran off to hide at "
Or " Before I run to hide myself under a rock , I better find where Joe is hiding .

You already have said these would be God rejecting unbelievers we are talking about .
It is against the selfish carnal nature of humans to be concerning themselves of where this person or that person or ran off to hide at with their own certain death at stake , with the Brightness of His coming & the terrible Judgement in their face.
They are going to be concerned only with saving themselves.

For me the only reason that Christ has mentioned one person taking notice of another person being gone is because it is a stand alone event that happens separate prior to His coming in Power & Glory & thus merits people taking notice of it .

It makes no sense to me for Christ to mention people noticing other people being gone in conjunction with the moment that hundreds of millions of people are being killed, and desperately fleeing & hiding for their lives in God's terrible Day of Judgement .
Why would anyone notice such a thing as they themselves are desperately fleeing in absolute terror to survive ? ? ?

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

So where does it say one is noticing the other gone and running and hiding? It is not there.

 

[for_his_glory]

The 4 winds are the horsemen.

How do you come up with the 4 winds being horsemen as I thought it meant N, S, E, and W.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[for_his_glory]

It makes no sense to me for the terrible Day of the Lord in the Brightness of His coming to be happening in the face
of unbelieving people terrified and fleeing for their lives, who at the same time will be taking stock of :
" Gee , I wonder where Ellen ran off to hide at "
Or " Before I run to hide myself under a rock , I better find where Joe is hiding .

You already have said these would be God rejecting unbelievers we are talking about .
It is against the selfish carnal nature of humans to be concerning themselves of where this person or that person or ran off to hide at with their own certain death at stake , with the Brightness of His coming & the terrible Judgement in their face.
They are going to be concerned only with saving themselves.

For me the only reason that Christ has mentioned one person taking notice of another person being gone is because it is a stand alone event that happens separate prior to His coming in Power & Glory & thus merits people taking notice of it .

It makes no sense to me for Christ to mention people noticing other people being gone in conjunction with the moment that hundreds of millions of people are being killed, and desperately fleeing & hiding for their lives in God's terrible Day of Judgement .
Why would anyone notice such a thing as they themselves are desperately fleeing in absolute terror to survive ? ? ?

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Two are working side by side in their job. The one taken is Christ's own who has prepared themself to be ready for whatever day or hour of His return. The other was not prepared as she/they had no faith as they are the unbelievers that will not be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. It's also like the parable of the ten virgins that those who had oil in their lamps (word and Holy Spirit) were prepared for the return of Christ, but the other's were not prepared, Matthew 25:1-13

 

[for_his_glory]

I am posting this again to show that Christ true Church, being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, will be here during the 3 1/2 years of the son of perdition/false prophet/last antichrist who with lying signs and wonders will cause all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death by being beheaded, Rev 20:4.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath poured out on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem). There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, which is not found in scripture no matter how they make scripture to line up with this false theory. There is no seven years, but that of only seven trumpets sounding. If you read about the first six trumpets they have a beginning and an end before the next one sounds. The seventh trumpet has a beginning, but no end until that of Christ return on the last day.

Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come first before the return of Christ, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chapter 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.

Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.

Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride

Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth

 

[Consecrated Life]

So where does it say one is noticing the other gone and running and hiding? It is not there.

Jesus has said this vanishing his elect will be of notice to those who reject Him.
Jesus did not waste His Words on speaking to a prophetic event that had no consequence or purpose .
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Someone suggested that the rapture happens on the this same Terrible Day Of The Lord in which billions of people will see the Lord coming in Power & Terrible Judgement and will be destroyed by the Word of His Mouth :

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Does it make any sense to you that in the middle of such death, carnage & chaos , on a day that billions of desperate people are fleeing & hiding for their lives that they would stop and take notice of someone not there ?