No Pretrib Rapture

[Consecrated Life]

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Two are working side by side in their job. The one taken is Christ's own who has prepared themself to be ready for whatever day or hour of His return. The other was not prepared as she/they had no faith as they are the unbelievers that will not be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. It's also like the parable of the ten virgins that those who had oil in their lamps (word and Holy Spirit) were prepared for the return of Christ, but the other's were not prepared, Matthew 25:1-13

Who is going to be "working their job" when they are running for their lives into the mountains, about to be slain by the wrath of the Lamb & Word of His mouth and are desperately looking for a rock to hide under to save themselves ?
These desperate people fleeing for their lives are not going to be grinding at the mill, working their jobs, taking notice of who is around them in the chaos , or anything else other than running for their lives .

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus has said this vanishing his elect will be of notice to those who reject Him.
Jesus did not waste His Words on speaking to a prophetic event that had no consequence or purpose .
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Someone suggested that the rapture happens on the this same Terrible Day Of The Lord in which billions of people will see the Lord coming in Power & Terrible Judgement and will be destroyed by the Word of His Mouth :

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Does it make any sense to you that in the middle of such death, carnage & chaos , on a day that billions of desperate people are fleeing & hiding for their lives that they would stop and take notice of someone not there ?

Rev 6:15-17 comes before the seventh trumpet that will be when the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem.

The heaven departs as mentioned in Isaiah 34:4 as a scroll that is rolled together. After the wars we read about in the fourth seal the atmosphere is also clouded with smoke that folds in between itself. If you have ever watched a storm roll in you see this affect of the clouds rolling into each other as it darkens the sky and blocks out the sun. Every mountain and island is moved out of their places by the great earthquakes this Global war has caused

These Pharisee type false prophets try to hide themselves in the dens and the rocks of the mountains and ask the mountains and rocks to surround them and hide them from the wrath of God that is now at hand. These are those who have perverted their ways and have forgotten God their Lord. They hope by hiding their shame God will pass them by and they will be spared, but their shame will devour them unless they truly repent and turn back to God as now Gods final wrath has come. The only ones who will be able to stand at this time are those who have endured unto the end and have Gods seal on them as they have been Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22.

 

[journeyman]

It makes no sense to me for the terrible Day of the Lord in the Brightness of His coming to be happening in the face
of unbelieving people terrified and fleeing for their lives,

It makes perfect sense to see the Brightness of His coming as His light shines through us AND we share His gospel with people who fear death (like someone did with us.

who at the same time will be taking stock of :
" Gee , I wonder where Ellen ran off to hide at "
Or " Before I run to hide myself under a rock , I better find where Joe is hiding .

You already have said these would be God rejecting unbelievers we are talking about .
It is against the selfish carnal nature of humans to be concerning themselves of where this person or that person or ran off to hide at with their own certain death at stake , with the Brightness of His coming & the terrible Judgement in their face.
They are going to be concerned only with saving themselves.

For me the only reason that Christ has mentioned one person taking notice of another person being gone is because it is a stand alone event that happens separate prior to His coming in Power & Glory & thus merits people taking notice of it .

It makes no sense to me for Christ to mention people noticing other people being gone in conjunction with the moment that hundreds of millions of people are being killed, and desperately fleeing & hiding for their lives in God's terrible Day of Judgement .
Why would anyone notice such a thing as they themselves are desperately fleeing in absolute terror to survive ? ? ?

Mat 24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Mat 24:42

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I'm not talking about people being gone before bodily resurrection. When the saints are transformed it's because the glory of God is finally seen by all mankind but as He looks in Person. No mortal flesh can abide it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Who is going to be "working their job" when they are running for their lives into the mountains, about to be slain by the wrath of the Lamb & Word of His mouth and are desperately looking for a rock to hide under to save themselves ?
These desperate people fleeing for their lives are not going to be grinding at the mill, working their jobs, taking notice of who is around them in the chaos , or anything else other than running for their lives .

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

brother Paul and I have both explained this to you as clearly as scripture says, but yet you keep questioning the scriptures we give you as you are using a carnal logic and not understanding those things which are Spiritual. You will just have to sort this out for yourself, or are you just playing us.

 

[journeyman]

How do you come up with the 4 winds being horsemen as I thought it meant N, S, E, and W.

They're destroying spirits (zech.6:5, Rev.7:2.)

1) he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
2) power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
3)
he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and wine.
4) his name that sat on himwas Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Rev.6 KJV

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Since we believe in our Lord, we have been gathered from amy devastation that may happen.

 

[brother Paul]

Jesus has said this vanishing his elect will be of notice to those who reject Him.
Jesus did not waste His Words on speaking to a prophetic event that had no consequence or purpose .
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Someone suggested that the rapture happens on the this same Terrible Day Of The Lord in which billions of people will see the Lord coming in Power & Terrible Judgement and will be destroyed by the Word of His Mouth :

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Does it make any sense to you that in the middle of such death, carnage & chaos , on a day that billions of desperate people are fleeing & hiding for their lives that they would stop and take notice of someone not there ?

You say Jesus said this but do not show HIM saying it (as if this is what you were taught but is not scripture)

 

[Consecrated Life]

You say Jesus said this but do not show HIM saying it (as if this is what you were taught but is not scripture)

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Do you think Jeus is saying the one left in each of the above scenarios notices that the other has been taken ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

brother Paul and I have both explained this to you as clearly as scripture says, but yet you keep questioning the scriptures we give you as you are using a carnal logic and not understanding those things which are Spiritual. You will just have to sort this out for yourself, or are you just playing us.

Why are you afraid to answer a simple question in your own Words ?
In your own words , what is the purpose of God having one woman at the mill be witness to the other one vanishing?

 

[brother Paul]

Who is going to be "working their job" when they are running for their lives into the mountains, about to be slain by the wrath of the Lamb & Word of His mouth and are desperately looking for a rock to hide under to save themselves ?
These desperate people fleeing for their lives are not going to be grinding at the mill, working their jobs, taking notice of who is around them in the chaos , or anything else other than running for their lives .

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Yes! That is during the outpouring of His wrath AFTER He comes and we will be with Him. But the Church is here during the reign of the Anti-Christ and his persecution of the Saints. Many true believers (no rapture yet) will lose their heads.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Who is going to be "working their job" when they are running for their lives into the mountains, about to be slain by the wrath of the Lamb & Word of His mouth and are desperately looking for a rock to hide under to save themselves ?

Yes! That is during the outpouring of His wrath AFTER He comes and we will be with Him.

"Yes!" (brother Paul)
So the appearing of the Terrible Day Of The Lord, will not deter folks from working the fields & grinding at the mill ?
Really ?
Not that much of a distraction ?
But then why does Jesus say they will run from the mill to look for rocks & caves to hide themselves ?

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[brother Paul]

"Yes!" (brother Paul)
So the appearing of the Terrible Day Of The Lord, will not deter folks from working the fields & grinding at the mill ?
Really ?
Not that much of a distraction ?
But then why does Jesus say they will run from the mill to look for rocks & caves to hide themselves ?

Rev 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Because at this point He has come! The wrath of God is being poured out in retribution.

 

[Consecrated Life]

"
So the appearing of the Terrible Day Of The Lord, will not deter folks from working the fields & grinding at the mill ?
Really ?
Not that much of a distraction ?
But then why does Jesus say they will run from the mill to look for rocks & caves to hide themselves ?

Because at this point He has come! The wrath of God is being poured out in retribution.

So if everybody is abandoning their work and running for the hills to save their lives why would they be taking note of who is missing ?
What difference would that make to them at that point, with the Wrath of God and their imminent death coming down on their heads ?


Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

 

[for_his_glory]

They're destroying spirits (zech.6:5, Rev.7:2.)

1) he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
2) power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
3)
he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and wine.
4) his name that sat on himwas Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Rev.6 KJV

Since we believe in our Lord, we have been gathered from amy devastation that may happen.

Zec 6:5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. (Read the full context from vs 1-8 and the history of that era).

These four spirits are four spirits (angels) God sends down from heaven during the time of Joshua becoming king and the building of the Temple. Some are sent north and the others south and are sent down for divine judgement on the Gentile nations that are opposing Israel, especially Babylon and Magog. The chariots are symbolic of the quickness theses angels will go throughout the earth at that time. Those who have gone north give God rest as they destroy God's enemies as they are judged. These four spirits are different then the ones found in Revelation 6:1-8 that Satan works through. (That is another topic)

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

These verses are about the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel that will be sealed of God in the end of days as this happens within the sixth seal before that of the first trumpet sounding as they are protected from God's judgement that is about ready to fall.

 

[brother Paul]

Yes

So if everybody is abandoning their work and running for the hills to save their lives why would they be taking note of who is missing ?
What difference would that make to them at that point, with the Wrath of God and their imminent death coming down on their heads ?


Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

Yes! Where does it say they are taking note of who is missing? My Bible does not say this.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yes


Yes! Where does it say they are taking note of who is missing? My Bible does not say this.

You don't believe that the woman left behind at the mill witnesses the other woman vanishing from the mill ?

Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[brother Paul]

You don't believe that the woman left behind at the mill witnesses the other woman vanishing from the mill ?

Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Sure, that's possible. But now we are way off topic. It does not say it is the or a reason to run and hide. Those in Rev probably hide from fear for self, from guilt or shame.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You don't believe that the woman left behind at the mill witnesses the other woman vanishing from the mill ?

Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Sure, that's possible.

What would be the point of Jesus repeatedly mentioning the fact that people left behind would be elbow to elbow with those taken, if not to point out that they would be living witnesses to the catching up ?
You don't think Jesus repeats this fact, several times no less, for no reason at all do you ?
What is the point Jesus is trying to make in repeating this scenario so many times ?
Nothing ?

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

 

[brother Paul]

What would be the point of Jesus repeatedly mentioning the fact that people left behind would be elbow to elbow with those taken, if not to point out that they would be living witnesses to the catching up ?
You don't think Jesus repeats this fact, several times no less, for no reason at all do you ?
What is the point Jesus is trying to make in repeating this scenario so many times ?
Nothing ?

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

I am sure they will notice but that has nothing to do with the fact that there is no pre-trib rapture. We will be on earth for the AntiChrist's part of the Trib. And I still cannot find where what you quote has anything to do with why they run and hide.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I am sure they will notice but that has nothing to do with the fact that there is no pre-trib rapture. We will be on earth for the AntiChrist's part of the Trib. And I still cannot find where what you quote has anything to do with why they run and hide.

So what do you think is the greater point Jesus is making by repeatedly pointing out there will be eye witnesses of the catching left behind ?

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

 

[eddif]

Again:
Amos 3:7 kjv
7. Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Prophets are not always perfect. One might hide in a cave till encouraged.
The disciples left Jesus alone on the cross.
But
At Pentecost, power was given to sons and daughters to be witnesses.

Jesus went into Heaven, others see through an opening into Heaven. The parables are a sort of way we see into heaven now. Our eyes of understanding have to be opened to get knowledge. We are instructed to ask correctly.
Changes take place.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
.