Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

No Pretrib Rapture

I Just showed you according to Jesus the Rapture comes VOID of any celestial event or warning, and when no when expects it.
Luk 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Write that down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second coming in Judgement immediately follows the Dramatic Celestial spectacles of the Sun, Moon, Stars. which are prophesized to announce His coming.

Mar 13:24-30
...... the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Write that down.

How have the two distinctly different criteria for two separate events confused you in not understanding they are two separate events?

No Pretrib Rapture​

That is where we are.

You might consider a thread called?
Pretrib Rapture

If you do start a thread, you may have to defend it. This new thread might have a suggested location?

I am not in charge here. The administration tolerates me. My battles are not against flesh and blood.

The solution? Probably talk to the staff privately. I am being very open here. I may get a warning. I am not at war with you. This is just trying to help.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 

No Pretrib Rapture​

That is where we are.

You might consider a thread called?
Pretrib Rapture

If you do start a thread, you may have to defend it. This new thread might have a suggested location?

I am not in charge here. The administration tolerates me. My battles are not against flesh and blood.

The solution? Probably talk to the staff privately. I am being very open here. I may get a warning. I am not at war with you. This is just trying to help.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
This subject of this thread is Pre-trib rapture being not valid,
Why would another thread need to be started informing of the validity based on Jesus's Word ?
 
I see the sun and the moon being literal as in Luke 21:25-28; Daniel 7:13-14 and Rev 1:7, 14:14-20. Jesus made it very clear that Immediately after the tribulation of those days (meaning after everyone that takes the mark of this beast bowing down to him) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

(Parenthesis added by me)
Our Savior couldn't mean the moon would be turned into literal blood or stars would move from their orbits.
When Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...", He meant the days of immense persecution of His followers. Why do the lights go out then? Why does "the sign of the son of man" appear in heaven then?
We need to understand how Christ thought of us as His own body.,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place...Mt.24:15 KJV

He's speaking of the beast defiling His body, His Temple,

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed Psa.2:2, Act.4:25 KJV

The sign of the son of Man is how he loved a world that hated Him.
 
Nowhere in scripture does it say Jesus returns twice.
You've already begged the question that rapture = 2nd coming.
your worldview/thought system has painted your thinking on the Rapture, not with a paint brush, but with paint-roller.

Rapture and 2nd coming are not necessarily the same. Hope this helps.
 
Our Savior couldn't mean the moon would be turned into literal blood or stars would move from their orbits.
When Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...", He meant the days of immense persecution of His followers. Why do the lights go out then? Why does "the sign of the son of man" appear in heaven then?
We need to understand how Christ thought of us as His own body.,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place...Mt.24:15 KJV

He's speaking of the beast defiling His body, His Temple,

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed Psa.2:2, Act.4:25 KJV

The sign of the son of Man is how he loved a world that hated Him.
Matthew 24:29 does not say the moon turns into literal blood, but says the moon will not give her light. Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2:16-21; Rev 6:12-17 says the moon became as blood, which I would think it just turns red, same meaning the moon will not give her light.

The abomination Daniel prophesied of will be that of the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition/false prophet/last antichrist, 2 Thessalonians 2; Rev 13. The kings of the earth and Rulers have always took counsel against the Lord and His anointed since the days of Babylon and through out all four Empires. When Christ returns on the last day He will destroy all of them by the brightness of His coming 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Rev 19:11-21.


Yes He loves the world as He gave His life to save everyone that will come to Him. When Christ returns on the last day His angels are sent out to gather His own to Him in whom is the body of Christ, His true Church with He being the head of the body. At that time the door of God's salvation will be closed forever as there are no second chances.
 
I Just showed you according to Jesus the Rapture comes VOID of any celestial event or warning, and when no when expects it.
Luk 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Write that down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second coming in Judgement immediately follows the Dramatic Celestial spectacles of the Sun, Moon, Stars. which are prophesized to announce His coming.

Mar 13:24-30
...... the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Write that down.

How have the two distinctly different criteria for two separate events confused you in not understanding they are two separate events?
These are the same scriptures I have used to show that Jesus comes on the last day as there is nothing there that says Jesus returns twice. No one knows that day or the hour, but He has given us signs to watch for, especially Matthew 24:29-31.
 
You've already begged the question that rapture = 2nd coming.
your worldview/thought system has painted your thinking on the Rapture, not with a paint brush, but with paint-roller.

Rapture and 2nd coming are not necessarily the same. Hope this helps.
Then please show me with scripture where it says Jesus comes back twice.
 
Then please show me with scripture where it says Jesus comes back twice.
How about he has been coming many times?
Matthew 23:37 kjv
37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world?
Is there one final gathering? Yes.

Were there some metaphorical callings!? I would say yes. Line up 100 people and you might get 20 groups with slightly different statements.
I like this thread.
it makes you wallow on the floor and cry out to God (what am I saying, that are each of these other people saying?).

I believe:
His people will go into/through the tribulation.
All the full lengthtribulation? No. God seems to shorten tribulation. God is the master of time.
Time:
Can stand still (look it up?)
Can be turned back
Can seem different to God

No Pretrib raptute
I agree,
Shortened tribulation? I say shortened.

How to get everyone on the same page?
Back to the floor.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a Great 7 year Tribulation, which the seven years are also a false teaching not found in scripture, but only a 3 1/2 year tribulation. No one will know the day or the hour of Christ return, Matthew 24:36, but scripture does give us signs to watch for, especially Matthew 24:29-31. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. There is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through including God's great wrath to come before the new heaven and new Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven. Matthew 24:36, 37; Deuteronomy 4:29-31; Matthew 24:21; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:17; Matthew 24:13.

God's great wrath during the sounding of the seven trumpets in Revelations is poured out into the world in hopes all would turn back to Him as He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. This is the ending of God's long suffering and patience like that of Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis 18, 19. We are kept by God during these times of temptation during His great wrath that we not turn away from Him, but stand strong in faith that is Christ Jesus and our promised inheritance of the kingdom of God, 1 Peter 1:5-23. We are not to fear that which must come first nor what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28, and also forewarned to flee when we see the abomination that causes desolation that Daniel in Daniel Chapter 7spoke of, Matthew 24:15-21, Rev 13. God does not want us to fear those things which must come, but be prepared for those things which have to come first before Christ returns. If we are truly indwelled and sealed by the Spirit of God through repentance and faith that is Christ Jesus then we need not fear what man can do to the flesh as we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. We have died to self and we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. We will be the witness of Christ to the world when the last of the abominations take place and our only concern needs to be of us being the witness to the nations that God has called us to be.

It is so imperative to understand the full context of scripture so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns on the last day with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21. (Note: No saints return with Him as no one has ever died and ascended up to heaven other than Christ who descended down from heaven to seek and save the lost, John 3:13-21. At that time every eye will see Him come in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven, even those who pierced Him, Acts 1:11; Rev 1:7. Notice where it says even those who pierced Him as they are even now in their grave. On the last day after the seventh trumpet has sounded and the beast and false prophet are destroyed and cast into the lake of fire Satan is then bound for a time as the one and only resurrection of all who are in their grave will hear His voice calling them to come forth out of them. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29; 6:40.

At the great white throne judgement Jesus will be seated on His throne of glory as God commits all judgment unto the Son, John 5:22. The books will be opened, including the Lamb's book of life, and all will be judged as Jesus will then gather all nations (people) before Him and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. The sheep will hear Jesus say: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". The goats will hear Jesus say: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", Matthew 25:31-46.

Pretrib teachers twist and add to Rev 4:1, 2 to show we are caught up to Jesus before the great tribulation (God's great wrath). This is a deceptive teaching as it is only John being caught up in the Spirit while being a prisoner on the isle of Patmos as he sees a vision of a door opening before him. The first voice he heard speaking to him was that of great power and authority similar to the powerful sound a trumpet makes. The voice tells John to draw in closer to Gods Spirit to see the visions of those things that are yet future. After hearing this voice John was immediately immersed (slain) in the Holy Spirit and the visions were revealed to him. Being slain in the Spirit is like those disciples in John 18:6 who fell backwards when they realized the Spirit of Christ as being the I Am. It's also like that of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:3-8. Many, including myself, that have ever experienced this knows what I am talking about.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it's going to be a quiet so called rapture does it. And every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn't something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation, Ephesians 1:13-14 and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hi FHG
A little late for me, but I'd have a lot to learn from you regarding the end times.

I do agree with you that Jesus is coming back only one time,,,,,at the end.

A rapture was never taught but is a modern idea from the 1800s.

As you surely know, I dislike modern doctrine that does not go all the way back to either Jesus, the NT writings, or - as a last resort - the Apostolic Fathers.

No such teaching as a rapture anywhere.
 
Hi FHG
A little late for me, but I'd have a lot to learn from you regarding the end times.

I do agree with you that Jesus is coming back only one time,,,,,at the end.

A rapture was never taught but is a modern idea from the 1800s.

As you surely know, I dislike modern doctrine that does not go all the way back to either Jesus, the NT writings, or - as a last resort - the Apostolic Fathers.

No such teaching as a rapture anywhere.
Nonetheless, the church must be removed in one way or another, then the Beast will be revealed and exalted on earth by the "inhabitants of the earth", hence the three and a half year of Great Tribulation. The church is subject to the wrath of Satan, but not the wrath of God, that much is crystal clear. It's just not gonna be unfolded in an alien abduction style as most dispensationalists pastors have taught, and it's not gonna be a seven year tribulation fulfilling the last one of Daniel's 70 weeks. That prophecy was already fulfilled by Jesus.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thess. 2:3-8)
 
These are the same scriptures I have used to show that Jesus comes on the last day as there is nothing there that says Jesus returns twice. No one knows that day or the hour, but He has given us signs to watch for, especially Matthew 24:29-31.
You have not answered how two distinctly separate criteria that Jesus prophesized will accompany His coming on two separate occasions , in the Pre-trib Rapture & again in the post-trib Judgement = one event in your mind ?
And with good reason no attempt has been forthcoming to detail how the two sets of dramatically different criteria Jesus details as accompanying each separate event = one event ?
I do understand why no attempt will be made to reconcile the distinctly different criteria given from Jesus Himself for the 2 separate events as being a single event .
A person would be just as capable in explaining how an orange and an orangutan are the same thing.


No change in the sun, the moon, are stars accompanies the rapture according to Jesus
Luk 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Write that down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second coming in Judgement immediately follows the Dramatic Celestial spectacles of the Sun, Moon, Stars. which are prophesized to announce His coming.

Mar 13:24-30
...... the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Write that down.

How have the two distinctly different criteria for two separate events confused you in not understanding they are two separate events?
 
Last edited:
You have not answered how two distinctly separate criteria that Jesus prophesized will accompany His coming on two separate occasions , in the Pre-trib Rapture & again in the post-trib Judgement = one event in your mind ?
And with good reason no attempt has been forthcoming to detail how the two sets of dramatically different criteria Jesus details as accompanying each separate event = one event ?
I do understand why no attempt will be made to reconcile the distinctly different criteria given from Jesus Himself for the 2 separate events as being a single event .
A person would be just as capable in explaining how an orange and an orangutan are the same thing.


No change in the sun, the moon, are stars accompanies the rapture according to Jesus
Luk 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Write that down.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Second coming in Judgement immediately follows the Dramatic Celestial spectacles of the Sun, Moon, Stars. which are prophesized to announce His coming.

Mar 13:24-30
...... the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Write that down.

How have the two distinctly different criteria for two separate events confused you in not understanding they are two separate events?
I'm really dumb about this.
Could you explain How your 2 verses above describe 2 different appearances by Jesus.
Thanks.
 
Matthew 24:29 does not say the moon turns into literal blood, but says the moon will not give her light. Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2:16-21; Rev 6:12-17 says the moon became as blood, which I would think it just turns red, same meaning the moon will not give her light.
That may be true, but the luminaries are referred to in scripture as symbols of people.
The abomination Daniel prophesied of will be that of the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition/false prophet/lantichrist, 2 Thessalonians 2; Rev 13. The kings of the earth and Rulers have always took counsel against the Lord and His anointed since the days of Babylon and through out all four Empires. When Christ returns on the last day He will destroy all of them by the brightness of His coming 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Rev 19:11-21.
Im 2Thes, the Messiahs' brightness destroys the "man of sin" but in Rev.19, the beast is thrown into the "lake of fire." <---The appearing of Christ as He truly is will be a fire that engulfs all of of creation.
Yes He loves the world as He gave His life to save everyone that will come to Him. When Christ returns on the last day His angels are sent out to gather His own to Him in whom is the body of Christ, His true Church with He being the head of the body. At that time the door of God's salvation will be closed forever as there are no second chances.
I understand what you are saying and I agree, except the division between Gods' people and the lost is really happening now,

“For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; Mt.10:35 NKJV
 
I'm really dumb about this.
Could you explain How your 2 verses above describe 2 different appearances by Jesus.
Thanks.
The next event to happen, the rapture is precluded by nothing.
Thus it comes when there is no expectation of it happening.
Like today for instance .
I'm not really expecting it today although I know it could happen.
This according to Jesus:

Luke 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
==========================================================


The second coming of Jesus to touchdown on the Mt. Of Olives , to bring judgement IS PRECLUDED by several dramatic events, not the least of which are the tribulation & the heavens being shaken.
You recently saw the frantic activity of millions of people in anticipation of an "eclipse" .
Can you imagine the reaction when the sun goes totally and all the stars in the disappear ?


Mar 13:24-25
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:30

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
How about he has been coming many times?
Matthew 23:37 kjv
37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world?
Is there one final gathering? Yes.

Were there some metaphorical callings!? I would say yes. Line up 100 people and you might get 20 groups with slightly different statements.
I like this thread.
it makes you wallow on the floor and cry out to God (what am I saying, that are each of these other people saying?).

I believe:
His people will go into/through the tribulation.
All the full lengthtribulation? No. God seems to shorten tribulation. God is the master of time.
Time:
Can stand still (look it up?)
Can be turned back
Can seem different to God

No Pretrib raptute
I agree,
Shortened tribulation? I say shortened.

How to get everyone on the same page?
Back to the floor.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
You have an awesome mind in how you perceive certain things and that's what I like about you as not every gets you.
It's odd that when I ask for pretrib scriptures none that are given says anything about Jesus returning twice. I use to believe all those teachings about pretrib, but yet being very young in my understanding of scripture I thought it was just me that couldn't see where scripture spoke of a pretrib and just took these pastors word for it. I'm glad I started digging deeper in scripture and found there is no two different comings.
 
Hi FHG
A little late for me, but I'd have a lot to learn from you regarding the end times.

I do agree with you that Jesus is coming back only one time,,,,,at the end.

A rapture was never taught but is a modern idea from the 1800s.

As you surely know, I dislike modern doctrine that does not go all the way back to either Jesus, the NT writings, or - as a last resort - the Apostolic Fathers.

No such teaching as a rapture anywhere.

Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the 1800’s had a vision of a pretrib rapture, but she felt that the vision felt dark and evil as an untruth. When telling others of her vision many preachers ran with it as being true and started teaching their theories on pretrib rapture. There theories were handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.​
 
The next event to happen, the rapture is precluded by nothing.
Thus it comes when there is no expectation of it happening.
Like today for instance .
I'm not really expecting it today although I know it could happen.
This according to Jesus:

Luke 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
==========================================================


The second coming of Jesus to touchdown on the Mt. Of Olives , to bring judgement IS PRECLUDED by several dramatic events, not the least of which are the tribulation & the heavens being shaken.
You recently saw the frantic activity of millions of people in anticipation of an "eclipse" .
Can you imagine the reaction when the sun goes totally and all the stars in the disappear ?


Mar 13:24-25
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:30

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I think that we get the end of the world mixed up with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
Jesus said that THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.
Matthew 24:34

What things? That generation passed away and Jesus did not return. They were EXPECTING Him to return before they passed away.

Jesus was speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem, as He was in the verses you picked out in Mark 13:24.

In other places Jesus was indeed speaking about the end of the world.
He said that we would see Him coming in the clouds, just as the verse you posted states.

He is coming back ONE TIME when it is the end.
Those still living will be taken up with Him, and those in their graves will be resurrected and all will have their glorified bodies and enter into heaven on earth....the New Jerusalem.

This is speaking about the end of the world.
The Thessalonians had stopped going to work and living their normal lives because they were waiting for Jesus to return in their generation.

Paul told them to go about their business. I can understand how some of Jesus' words could have been misunderstood, but the answer is given in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70'AD, the Temple was destroyed, not one stone left upon another - just as Jesus had stated.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.


The NT speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and it speaks about the end of the World.
These two events are to be kept separate.

Jesus is coming back one time, at the end of the world to gather all of us in His Chruch.
The Great resurrection.

And THEN will come the white throne judgment, as you stated, but that will be after the end when all are judged.

My two cents....the rapture was never taught in the early church.
All new doctrine that came about after the reformation should be understood in light of what the early church taught.
 
Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the 1800’s had a vision of a pretrib rapture, but she felt that the vision felt dark and evil as an untruth. When telling others of her vision many preachers ran with it as being true and started teaching their theories on pretrib rapture. There theories were handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.​
Interesting. Yes.
It was dark because most surely it was addressing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

One man is standing in the field, and one man is taken.

Sure. The one taken was taken by the government of the time, the Romans, probably to be prosecuted for disobedience to the rules of Caeser.

When Jesus comes back, it'll be the end of the world.

And maybe it's not too far off ...

PS And this is why there is to be no new revelation.
Men sometimes will teach incorrect doctrine because THEY made it up.
 
Jesus was speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem, as He was in the verses you picked out in Mark 13:24.
If that were the case the "tribulation" he speaks of, such as the world has never seen, would have happened already?

Mark 13:24-25
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,


Do you believe the "tribulation" has already happened ?
 
Back
Top