Objections to God's Sovereignty Answered..........Some

[Fastfredy0]

So how is that a person being quite willing if God makes them willing?

WOW, you answered your own question. Made me literally laugh though. Thank you

 

[Fastfredy0]

God does the work on us.
Every christian believes this.
On our own We Can Do NOTHING.

Wow.... now that is REFORM doctrine. Seems to contradict other things. Interesting

Everything happens by the spirit.

Wow.... now that is REFORM doctrine. Seems to contradict other things. Interesting

 

[jasonc]

WOW, you answered your own question. Made me literally laugh though. Thank you

Answer
Jason was into his martial arts .he was not at all into the gospel .he was into zen Buddhism and that garbage and SCi Fi .seeking the former to improve him .

Then one day because he started self destructive choices of law breaking ,a letter came warning I may see jail as my deed was reported to the Vernon parish courthouse.i sought God ought.a week before I was in a church hearing the gospel .it was arminist and pentacostal but it was one of many ways God was softening me as my life sucked then and I was reading the Bible for no reason other then to pass time on breaks.watching church services and seeking God but weirdly unaware the Spirit was drawing me .
Then I prayed .confessing I was a sinner and asking God to forgive me and to be healed of things I dealt with .

I wanted nothing to do with God and then it changed .

 

[Fastfredy0]

I wanted nothing to do with God and then it changed .

Exactly. You don't sound like you wanted anything to do with God and then your desire change. That is a HUGE change in desire.
John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe. If it is God working in you, you can't help be eternally His. If it is you working on you (Free Will), then hopefully things work out. I obviously believe the formal premise to be true.
Nice confession... thanks.

 

[jasonc]

Exactly. You don't sound like you wanted anything to do with God and then your desire change. That is a HUGE change in desire.
John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe. If it is God working in you, you can't help be eternally His. If it is you working on you (Free Will), then hopefully things work out. I obviously believe the formal premise to be true.
Nice confession... thanks.

Our flesh resists the Spirit.

"If sin doesn't repulse you ,then you have no right to be called a Christian "

Whitfield paraphrased by me

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You didn't define it comprehensively. It is more that a choice or you don't understand the crux of the discussion which includes ... why did you make the choice. They don't put FREE in front of WILL for nothing. FREE FROM WHAT?
You take credit of a non answer. Reminds me what I was a kid and I would ask Billy why he did X and Billy would reply "BECAUSE". I would say "BECAUSE is not an answer". You do the same thing but put an incomplete define of FREE WILL as your answer. You might as will say BECAUSE like Billy.

For every effect there is a cause. Who is the CAUSE of your salvation for example.
You answer, "my choice" is why I did. ... well, why did you choice.... this is elementary metaphysics. *sigh*

I defined it comprehensively. Definitions do not include a string of causes. Definitions define the terms alone. That is how the educated define words. Causes are not mentioned.

Will (definition): the faculty by which a person decides on and initiates action

Free (definition): not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes:

One sentence. No lengthy additions as to how one gets there. If I look up the definition of fire, the dictionary won’t tell me who did it.

wondering and Niblo, when we encounter an obvious stubborn blindness, there will be no chance of penetrating that armor. However, it is fascinating to see how people think. We have learned that in order to avoid the obvious reckoning that man’s choices are free of God’s manipulation as repeatedly presented in scripture from Genesis (2:16-17) to Revelation (20:12), the poster insists we include causes which render the “free” in “free will” chained. (My preference is to site the events described in the Bible but that is not sufficient for Fred.) So we see that one has to embrace nonsense in full defiance of real life to avoid seeing the flaw in Calvinism. Not all Calvinists think this way, but it’s interesting if sad to see how the insistence that God is at fault in our choices is justified.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You define FREE WILL first ... comprehensively .... No simplictic statement like, "It's a choice" like Dorothy Mae
Where did you get it from? What is it and how does it work? How did you program it and what was your reasoning for said programming and where did you get your reasoning to set up your FREE WILL?

Also: Where did you get your depraved nature? Did you choose it using your FREE WILL (which needs to be defined). If you choose it from your Free Will, why did you create a WILL that would do such a thing? Why has everyone on the planet using their free will (whatever that is), freely decided to be depraved? Like the odds are next to impossible.

Aside: I doubt I will get a response. Free Will is imaginary so not like you will defend that which does not exist. Since it is so central to your theology and since you are an official representative of this forum one would think you would step up to the plate ... educate us ... I assume that is part of your purpose here.

No, you answer her question first. We defined these things and repeatedly.

But you cannot answer the question and so you throw chaff. No Calvinist can give a reasonable answer to the question as to why God chooses some for Heaven or Hell. There is NO reasonable answer as the theology assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Our flesh resists the Spirit.

"If sin doesn't repulse you ,then you have no right to be called a Christian "

Whitfield paraphrased by me

Then there are very few christians. Glad God doesn’t use that standard.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Re: Request to Forum Ambassador to define FREE WILL and questions of DEPRAVITY
Their answer:

You preach FREE WILL, but you can't even define it. Given your position as CF Ambassador that's pretty sad.

Note to casual readers: the central anti-christian doctrine of FREE WILL cannot be explained by its adherents in this thread beyond: "It's a choice".

1 Peter 3:15 Always be ready to give a [logical] defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope and confident assurance [elicited by faith] that is within you, yet [do it] with gentleness and respect. [AMP]

.... this is sad

Yelling shows us you are not confident.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Answer
Jason was into his martial arts .he was not at all into the gospel .he was into zen Buddhism and that garbage and SCi Fi .seeking the former to improve him .

Then one day because he started self destructive choices of law breaking ,a letter came warning I may see jail as my deed was reported to the Vernon parish courthouse.i sought God ought.a week before I was in a church hearing the gospel .it was arminist and pentacostal but it was one of many ways God was softening me as my life sucked then and I was reading the Bible for no reason other then to pass time on breaks.watching church services and seeking God but weirdly unaware the Spirit was drawing me .
Then I prayed .confessing I was a sinner and asking God to forgive me and to be healed of things I dealt with .

I wanted nothing to do with God and then it changed .

Did you freely determine that your life sucked based on the evidence? Is that how you came to that conclusion about your life? You LOOKED at it?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Answer
Jason was into his martial arts .he was not at all into the gospel .he was into zen Buddhism and that garbage and SCi Fi .seeking the former to improve him .

Then one day because he started self destructive choices of law breaking ,a letter came warning I may see jail as my deed was reported to the Vernon parish courthouse.i sought God ought.a week before I was in a church hearing the gospel .it was arminist and pentacostal but it was one of many ways God was softening me as my life sucked then and I was reading the Bible for no reason other then to pass time on breaks.watching church services and seeking God but weirdly unaware the Spirit was drawing me .
Then I prayed .confessing I was a sinner and asking God to forgive me and to be healed of things I dealt with .

I wanted nothing to do with God and then it changed .

Thank you for sharing this. What we clearly see is the often repeated evidence of God drawing a man, making Himself attractive or what He offers attractive and that man being freely attracted to the offer. The full history of your journey shows God’s part in wooing and your free response. It is the method that also brings Him the most honor. He calls but does not drag. He bids but does not compel. You clearly looked at the mess of your life and intellectually saw it was a mess. What did you have to lose by accepting the offer? A marvelous testimony but it doesn’t fit Reformed Theology as your own intellect played a large role.

 

[electedbyHim]

No, you answer her question first. We defined these things and repeatedly.

But you cannot answer the question and so you throw chaff. No Calvinist can give a reasonable answer to the question as to why God chooses some for Heaven or Hell. There is NO reasonable answer as the theology assumes facts not in evidence.

But you cannot answer the question and so you throw chaff. No Calvinist can give a reasonable answer to the question as to why God chooses some for Heaven or Hell. There is NO reasonable answer as the theology assumes facts not in evidence.

The Bible answers this.

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND IN ORDER THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”
Rom 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? WILL THE THING MOLDED SAY TO THE MOLDER, “WHY DID YOU MAKE ME LIKE THIS”?
Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Rom 9:22 And what if God, wanting to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath having been prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory—


God does it for His glory

 

[GodsGrace]

No they do not.

If you believed that you would agree with the teaching, but you do not.

Because God has not allowed them to yet.

Falsehood...show a cal post gnostisc teaching? Not sure you know what it is.

The reformed teach the gospel of the Kingdom, others seem to be outside until God let's them in.

Do you mean the elect? It is okay, you can say elect.

Icon, do you think I post what I don't believe?
The only statements above that you make that are not in line with mainline Christianity is
1. GOD HAS NOT ALLOWED THEM IN YET. (to the Kingdom)
Doesn't this go against God wanting all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of Him?
1 Timothy 2:4
Romans 1:19-20

If you think I don't know what gnosticism is, OK.
I guess you're the only one who knows so much.
Get the book by Ken Wilson on Augustine. Can't remember what it's called right now.
Augustine was a manecaen for 10 years before he became Christian.
Why do you think he changed his mind about a few things while being in the CC?
Jesse Morrell is also an expert.
Will you watch??

 

[GodsGrace]

Re: Request to Forum Ambassador to define FREE WILL and questions of DEPRAVITY
Their answer:

You preach FREE WILL, but you can't even define it. Given your position as CF Ambassador that's pretty sad.

Note to casual readers: the central anti-christian doctrine of FREE WILL cannot be explained by its adherents in this thread beyond: "It's a choice".

1 Peter 3:15 Always be ready to give a [logical] defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope and confident assurance [elicited by faith] that is within you, yet [do it] with gentleness and respect. [AMP]

.... this is sad

1 Peter 3:15 is for you also.
Or do you think you're excluded?

1. We spoke about free will for pages about one year ago.
I will not repeat this.

2. It's useless for you to act "dumb". You know very well what those on my side understand free will to be.

3. Since you don't really enjoy discussing it, you throw the ball in the other's court and just keep stating that we cannot explain free will.

4. If you believe adherence to the doctrine of free will is ANTI-CHRISTIAN, you have taken upon yourself to prove this fact. OR, forever dismiss these words from your vocabulary.

5. Ambassador is an honorary title and means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Please stop referring to this.
It is not endearing.

 

[GodsGrace]

WOW, you answered your own question. Made me literally laugh though. Thank you

We all need a good laugh every now and then.
Happy to oblige.

But, of course, you didn't understand my reply.
No problem.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wow.... now that is REFORM doctrine. Seems to contradict other things. Interesting


Wow.... now that is REFORM doctrine. Seems to contradict other things. Interesting

I sometimes doubt that you're really calvinist.
It seems to me that some don't really know what it is....

Every Christian believes what I posted.
This is not what makes you a calvinist.

 

[atpollard]

Well, it make me smile. But I think communicating as Jesus, our example, is legitimate. Don't you think communication would improve by following his example?

I will say this … I have been to a few churches where overturning tables and driving out the merchants so people could worship might not be a TERRIBLE idea.

 

[atpollard]

The poster was responding to Fastfredy0 who does seem to believe that. It’s is clear that you do not. But why do you think that there is someone restraining our sin within us? Where is the evidence for this and why are they doing such a poor job of restraining sin within us? Why let any sin out at all?

Read Romans 1 starting at 18 and count how many times “God gave them over” to sin … each time releasing them to follow their desire and to commit ever greater depravity.

 

[atpollard]

“The Heavens declare the glory of God.” Besides which, each of us has a conscience and are born with the ability to know and understand moral right and wrong and that conscience actually judges our actions and words.

You know that is not true, right.
At what age did you teach your toddler to “sin”?

No, we work hard as parents to teach our children to share and play nice and think of the feelings of others … because it is NOT naturally within us. Children naturally snatch the toy they want from another child without anyone needing to teach them that. LUST - to see and want - is innate. Empathy is learned.

 

[atpollard]

I’m pretty sure they’re the same. Maybe you don’t see the impartiality of God in his ways. He has reasons He chooses sone but that is based on fulfilling conditions.

Jacob and Esau … please explain them and why God chose one twin over another before birth. That is the very DEFINITION of partiality, not impartiality.

Romans 9:10-13 [NKJV]
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."