OSAS is biblical truth.

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Well if you cannot contend with my wisdom.........

Admittedly, I may not be able to contend with all of the wisdom you may possess. However, if you want to keep it focused on the scriptures than I doubt that you are in a league of your own.

 

[George Muller]

Well if you cannot contend with my wisdom.........

Admittedly, I may not be able to contend with all of the wisdom you may possess. However, if you want to keep it focused on the scriptures than I doubt that you are in a league of your own.

Well again personal attacks have no effect upon me, nor do I seek the good opinion of any man, but only that I might walk before My God, in the truth of My beloved Christ.

 

[George Muller]

Like I have said over and over, it is the law and legalism that shipwrecks a believers faith...

Not just plain old fashioned love of sin? Ever? Really?

That's unreasonable...and empirically indefensible.

Well it is written in plain words, your issue is with Gods Word not with me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Like I have said over and over, it is the law and legalism that shipwrecks a believers faith...

Not just plain old fashioned love of sin? Ever? Really?

That's unreasonable...and empirically indefensible.

Well it is written in plain words, your issue is with Gods Word not with me.

I asked you before to show me where these plain words are that say all sin the result of legalism.

I showed you an example of where sin had nothing to do with legalism but you insisted on reading it into the passage. Your opportunity for opinion is allowed and respected, but we need scripture, not opinions, in order for you to impress what you say forcibly on us through the "wisdom of scripture" you suggest you possess.

Just sticking to the topic here. Just show us where it says all sin is the result of legalism, and that sin can never be the result of just plain old love of sin and unrighteousness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...but as I say, you're doctrine about falling away from Christ because of legalism is a decidedly non-OSAS doctrine anyway. :yes

We give you credit for that much, anyway.

 

[George Muller]

Like I have said over and over, it is the law and legalism that shipwrecks a believers faith...

Not just plain old fashioned love of sin? Ever? Really?

That's unreasonable...and empirically indefensible.

Well it is written in plain words, your issue is with Gods Word not with me.

I asked you before to show me where these plain words are that say all sin the result of legalism.

I showed you an example of where sin had nothing to do with legalism but you insisted on reading it into the passage. Your opportunity for opinion is allowed and respected, but we need scripture, not opinions, in order for you to impress what you say forcibly on us through the "wisdom of scripture" you suggest you possess.

Just sticking to the topic here. Just show us where it says all sin is the result of legalism, and that sin can never be the result of just plain old love of sin and unrighteousness.

Well you twist my words, do you think that is honest? I have said only what the scriptures say in clear and evident terms "the strength of sin is the law" "for sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law" "the law is not of faith" Those who seek to be justified by the law, have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. So what point would you like to start in this discussion? Which of these scriptures are you in conflict with?

 

[George Muller]

...but as I say, you're doctrine about falling away from Christ because of legalism is a decidedly non-OSAS doctrine anyway. :yes

We give you credit for that much, anyway.

My "credit" is with the Lord and not in mans opinion. As I have said before the term OSAS means nothing to me, as to what it means to others? I could care less. The Gospel of Grace is that which I defend and make known, and in His Grace a believer can never be lost. If that is defined as OSAS to some? Then ok. But its GRACE to me.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I have said only what the scriptures say in clear and evident terms "the strength of sin is the law" "for sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law" "the law is not of faith" Those who seek to be justified by the law, have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. So what point would you like to start in this discussion?

1. What does the letter to the Romans have to do with the eternal security doctrine of OSAS?
2. Do does a believer that departs the faith that doesn't turn to the OT Law still "always saved"?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well it is written in plain words, your issue is with Gods Word not with me.

I asked you before to show me where these plain words are that say all sin the result of legalism.

I showed you an example of where sin had nothing to do with legalism but you insisted on reading it into the passage. Your opportunity for opinion is allowed and respected, but we need scripture, not opinions, in order for you to impress what you say forcibly on us through the "wisdom of scripture" you suggest you possess.

Just sticking to the topic here. Just show us where it says all sin is the result of legalism, and that sin can never be the result of just plain old love of sin and unrighteousness.

Well you twist my words, do you think that is honest? I have said only what the scriptures say in clear and evident terms "the strength of sin is the law" "for sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law" "the law is not of faith" Those who seek to be justified by the law, have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. So what point would you like to start in this discussion?

How is it that all sin is a desire to be justified by the law?

The power of sin being the law does not mean all sin is because of the law. In that very passage, if I'm not mistaken, Paul says, "nevertheless, sin was in the world before the law." The passage is about how law magnifies sin, the sin already present in man by virtue of his adamic nature, and ensures his condemnation as a sinner, not makes a man righteous as the Jews mistakenly understood the law to do.

Relating this back to OSAS, you plainly say above that the person who seeks justification by the law has "fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ". That's NON-OSAS whether you want to acknowledge it, or not. So in your doctrine 'faith in doubt' is how a person is saved? You, also have a doctrine that 'unsaves' people, too, then, right?

 

[JLB]

Well it is those who trust in salvation that are "grounded and steadfast"

I agree with this.

However I also agree that if a person no longer trust's and believes then they are not grounded and steadfast and are in danger of being moved away or turned away from the hope of Salvation.


JLB

Like I have said over and over, it is the law and legalism that shipwrecks a believers faith, so any discussion of turning from faith must be brought into the truth of why the law is not of faith. As I have said over and over, most every warning of turning from faith, has this issue in view.

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles--that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Your desperately grasping at straws because you know that the scriptures make no provision for the false doctrine of OSAS.

So now you are trying to twist the meaning of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 into a dispute over the law of Moses VS faith.

There is no such language in these verse's.

Paul is dealing with a person that is having an immoral sexual relationship with his father's wife.

The man does not want to stop. His actions are affecting the whole Church at Corinth.

Paul gives instructions on how to deal with it.

No Law of Moses to it.

You know these passages have nothing to do with the Law of Moses, but rather Gentiles wanting to be immoral.

The very fact that you would try your desperate ploy to turn this into a law argument show us that you know your wrong, but are too stubborn to admit it.

Cased Closed!!!

OSAS is a FALSE DOCTRINE!!!


JLB

 

[George Muller]

I have said only what the scriptures say in clear and evident terms "the strength of sin is the law" "for sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law" "the law is not of faith" Those who seek to be justified by the law, have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. So what point would you like to start in this discussion?

1. What does the letter to the Romans have to do with the eternal security doctrine of OSAS?
2. Do does a believer that departs the faith that doesn't turn to the OT Law still "always saved"?

What? The issue of turning from faith is always "legalism" "FOR THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH" Put it together.

 

[George Muller]

Well it is written in plain words, your issue is with Gods Word not with me.

I asked you before to show me where these plain words are that say all sin the result of legalism.

I showed you an example of where sin had nothing to do with legalism but you insisted on reading it into the passage. Your opportunity for opinion is allowed and respected, but we need scripture, not opinions, in order for you to impress what you say forcibly on us through the "wisdom of scripture" you suggest you possess.

Just sticking to the topic here. Just show us where it says all sin is the result of legalism, and that sin can never be the result of just plain old love of sin and unrighteousness.

Well you twist my words, do you think that is honest? I have said only what the scriptures say in clear and evident terms "the strength of sin is the law" "for sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under law" "the law is not of faith" Those who seek to be justified by the law, have fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ. So what point would you like to start in this discussion?

How is it that all sin is a desire to be justified by the law?

The power of sin being the law does not mean all sin is because of the law. In that very passage, if I'm not mistaken, Paul says, "nevertheless, sin was in the world before the law." The passage is about how law magnifies sin, the sin already present in man by virtue of his adamic nature, and ensures his condemnation as a sinner, not makes a man righteous as the Jews mistakenly understood the law to do.

Relating this back to OSAS, you plainly say above that the person who seeks justification by the law has "fallen from grace and are cutoff from Christ". That's NON-OSAS whether you want to acknowledge it, or not. So in your doctrine 'faith in doubt' is how a person is saved? You, also have a doctrine that 'unsaves' people, too, then, right?

Again you attempt to twist my words to say what I have not said. And as I have said over and over the term OSAS, has no meaning or value to me. It is ONLY IN THE GRACE OF GOD, THAT A BELIEVER IS FOREVER SECURE IN THE SALVATION OF CHRIST JESUS.

 

[George Muller]

Well it is those who trust in salvation that are "grounded and steadfast"

I agree with this.

However I also agree that if a person no longer trust's and believes then they are not grounded and steadfast and are in danger of being moved away or turned away from the hope of Salvation.


JLB

Like I have said over and over, it is the law and legalism that shipwrecks a believers faith, so any discussion of turning from faith must be brought into the truth of why the law is not of faith. As I have said over and over, most every warning of turning from faith, has this issue in view.

1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles--that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Your desperately grasping at straws because you know that the scriptures make no provision for the false doctrine of OSAS.

So now you are trying to twist the meaning of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 into a dispute over the law of Moses VS faith.

There is no such language in these verse's.

Paul is dealing with a person that is having an immoral sexual relationship with his father's wife.

The man does not want to stop. His actions are affecting the whole Church at Corinth.

Paul gives instructions on how to deal with it.

No Law of Moses to it.

You know these passages have nothing to do with the Law of Moses, but rather Gentiles wanting to be immoral.

The very fact that you would try your desperate ploy to turn this into a law argument show us that you know your wrong, but are too stubborn to admit it.

Cased Closed!!!

OSAS is a FALSE DOCTRINE!!!


JLB

I have already explained this verse, and you are just in error in your understanding. And I say again what some think about such a term as OSAS has no importance to me, but a believer in the grace of God IS FOREVER AND FOREVER SAVED, THE ONLY CONDITION OF SCRIPTURE THAT WOULD negate His Grace is a return to the law of moses.

 

[JLB]

I have already explained this verse, and you are just in error in your understanding.

No George, you didn't explain anything what so ever about this verse, except to erroneously misapply the meaning to be about the Law of Moses, which is clearly and plainly not mentioned.

Sir, you are on dangerous ground, and in serious error about this matter.

This is an open door for a spirit of error to influence your teachings in a deeper way if you remain in this openly defiant, and arrogant attitude.

He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6



JLB

 

[George Muller]

I have already explained this verse, and you are just in error in your understanding.

No George, you didn't explain anything what so ever about this verse, except to erroneously misapply the meaning to be about the Law of Moses, which is clearly and plainly not mentioned.

Sir, you are on dangerous ground, and in serious error about this matter.

This is an open door for a spirit of error to influence your teachings in a deeper way if you remain in this openly defiant, and arrogant attitude.

He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:6



JLB

Oh come on?:toofunny

You should warn and teach yourself.

 

[gr8grace]

I am trying to understand something So this question is to those who hold fast to what has been called here OSAS...

Extreme example..

I am bad guy murder.. Evil type guy abusing kids just every thing we can think of that is unChristlike...
I am in jail the Baptist preacher shows up .... Yup I answer the alter call...Get out of jail.... Walk the walk for lets say 2 years... then I slip back into the life style start killing and all kinds of ugly stuff.... let say I do this for 7 years then the cops shoot me dead . Did I die saved?

If your answer is "I was never saved no need to post it..."

Alter calls save no ONE. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves a person. John 3:18; John 3:16;Acts 16:31.

The Law does not "unsave"

Sin does Not "unsave"

We do not "unsave"

Jesus Christ saves and He does not "unsave" ANYBODY!

If This Extreme man BELIEVED, He is saved.

Jesus went to the Extreme, Nothing man does even compares......Good or bad.

 

[JLB]

I am trying to understand something So this question is to those who hold fast to what has been called here OSAS...

Extreme example..

I am bad guy murder.. Evil type guy abusing kids just every thing we can think of that is unChristlike...
I am in jail the Baptist preacher shows up .... Yup I answer the alter call...Get out of jail.... Walk the walk for lets say 2 years... then I slip back into the life style start killing and all kinds of ugly stuff.... let say I do this for 7 years then the cops shoot me dead . Did I die saved?

If your answer is "I was never saved no need to post it..."

Alter calls save no ONE. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves a person. John 3:18; John 3:16;Acts 16:31.

The Law does not "unsave"

Sin does Not "unsave"

We do not "unsave"

Jesus Christ saves and He does not "unsave" ANYBODY!

If This Extreme man BELIEVED, He is saved.

Jesus went to the Extreme, Nothing man does even compares......Good or bad.

Chapter and verse, please.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves a person. John 3:18; John 3:16;Acts 16:31.

No question or debate about it. This is true in both OSAS, and non-OSAS.

But what happens if the believing that saves ends?

Paul tells us:

"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NIV)

Believing must continue to the end, or the believing you have done to date will have been done in vain.

 

[reba]

@gr8grace I don't think I agree but thank you for having the guts to say what you believe!

Alter calls save no ONE. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only thing
that saves a person. John
3:18; John
3:16;Acts
16:31.

Agree

The Law does not "unsave"

Agree but I never mentioned law

Sin does Not "unsave"

We do not "unsave"

this is where we could disagree

Jesus Christ saves and He does not "unsave" ANYBODY!

agree

If This Extreme man BELIEVED, He is saved.

not so sure myself

Jesus went to the Extreme, Nothing man does even compares......Good or bad.

Amen

 

[gr8grace]

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves a person. John 3:18; John 3:16;Acts 16:31.

No question or debate about it. This is true in both OSAS, and non-OSAS.

But what happens if the believing that saves ends?

Paul tells us:

"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NIV)

Believing must continue to the end, or the believing you have done to date will have been done in vain.

2 Tim 2:13~~If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.