OSAS is biblical truth.

[George Muller]

So according to your belief system, one must have a certain level of doubt and unbelief to be in "faith"?

According to OSAS, unbelief = salvation.

So doubt of Gods promise is now "faith" Yes I can see why some are so unsure of their salvation:toofunny

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So according to your belief system, one must have a certain level of doubt and unbelief to be in "faith"?

According to OSAS, unbelief = salvation.

So doubt of Gods promise is now "faith" Yes I can see why some are so unsure of their salvation:toofunny

If you exchange 'faith' for 'salvation', then, yes, 'unbelief' really means 'belief' in OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You guys seem willing to turn every sure promise of God into doubt.

God's promise is not what is in doubt.

What is in doubt is whether or not faith in the promise of God will persevere to the end.

See I know the work of the law, and it destroys the faith of every believer who is placed under its yoke.

So according to your belief system, one must have a certain level of doubt and unbelief to be in "faith"?

The issue with those who fight so hard against eternal security is always the Ten Commandments, for the law is not of faith.

What does the 10 Commandments have to do with this?

Believing is how a person is justified before God. Stop believing in the blood of Christ and you no longer have that blood ministering on your behalf in heaven for your justification.

 

[JLB]

NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM HIS LOVE, its plain as day Quick reply to this message Reply Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Draft this Post

I totally agree! Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Not even Hell!

This is a declaration that God will never stop loving us, and that nothing can separate the love of God from us.


This is the key verse!

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

These were faithful, even unto death, and were not moved away from the hope of the gospel.


JLB

shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (IN CHRIST JESUS) SO NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM THIS PLACE IN CHRIST AND GODS LOVE.

And if we are not separated from His love, then we are not separated from God. You guys seem willing to turn every sure promise of God into doubt. No wonder you are so determined to cast doubt on others salvation, you seem unable to believe any promise unless it promotes some judgment upon others. See I know the work of the law, and it destroys the faith of every believer who is placed under its yoke. The issue with those who fight so hard against eternal security is always the Ten Commandments, for the law is not of faith.

Its the love of God that is presently in Christ Jesus that we will not be separated from.

Christ is in us, because we believe the Gospel. The love of God is in Christ.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:9-13


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[Randy]

So to you trusting in Gods Word and His sure promise is putting Him to the test? That is not all what it means to "test the Lord" Trusting in His sure promises is FAITH

No that is not what I said. Despite Gods protection (as Jesus was tempted) I will not willfully throw my self down or willfully sin. We are not free to sin. These scriptures are stated as reminders with other scriptures such as remain in the Lords love by obeying His commands and anyone who is in Jesus must walk as He did or see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. Thats the message I read. OSAS is to me cocky and not what was taught. (Assurance and confidence but watch yourself)

I don't know what you mean according to my belief system? We are sanctified by faith in Christ Jesus as Jesus taught. The same Jesus who stated remain in Him by obeying His commands.

I guess will will have to disagree as I don't read Jesus stating OSAS the way you state. Yes assurance and confidence if we walk in the light we have that fellowship but always reminders/warnings we are not free to sin. (freewill)

 

[George Muller]

So according to your belief system, one must have a certain level of doubt and unbelief to be in "faith"?

According to OSAS, unbelief = salvation.

So doubt of Gods promise is now "faith" Yes I can see why some are so unsure of their salvation:toofunny

If you exchange 'faith' for 'salvation', then, yes, 'unbelief' really means 'belief' in OSAS.

So what do you think "faith" is in, if not in the saving and cleansing power of the Blood of Christ? In Gods sure promises? And unbelief means belief????:crazy

What does that mean, if not that you believe that doubt is needed to be called faith? James spoke true words;

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[George Muller]

NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM HIS LOVE, its plain as day Quick reply to this message Reply Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Draft this Post

I totally agree! Nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Not even Hell!

This is a declaration that God will never stop loving us, and that nothing can separate the love of God from us.


This is the key verse!

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

These were faithful, even unto death, and were not moved away from the hope of the gospel.


JLB

shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (IN CHRIST JESUS) SO NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM THIS PLACE IN CHRIST AND GODS LOVE.

And if we are not separated from His love, then we are not separated from God. You guys seem willing to turn every sure promise of God into doubt. No wonder you are so determined to cast doubt on others salvation, you seem unable to believe any promise unless it promotes some judgment upon others. See I know the work of the law, and it destroys the faith of every believer who is placed under its yoke. The issue with those who fight so hard against eternal security is always the Ten Commandments, for the law is not of faith.

Its the love of God that is presently in Christ Jesus that we will not be separated from.

Christ is in us, because we believe the Gospel. The love of God is in Christ.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:9-13


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

Yes those Christians who walk in the flesh, cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, for the Kingdom is Spiritual and one must "walk in the spirit" by faith, (The law is not of faith) to receive the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. It is those who are under the law that are carnal and in the flesh, for they seek to justify the flesh by the law. I would ask you JLB, have you ever practiced "jealousies" outburst of wrath, selfish ambition, contention or any of these other works of the flesh? are you yet saved and in the Love of God? So you would attempt to "unsave" other believers by these scriptures yet you grant mercy for your own flesh? That is hypocricy, which the Lord hates above all things.

Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[George Muller]

No that is not what I said. Despite Gods protection (as Jesus was tempted) I will not willfully throw my self down or willfully sin. We are not free to sin. These scriptures are stated as reminders with other scriptures such as remain in the Lords love by obeying His commands and anyone who is in Jesus must walk as He did or see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. Thats the message I read. OSAS is to me cocky and not what was taught. (Assurance and confidence but watch yourself)

I don't know what you mean according to my belief system? We are sanctified by faith in Christ Jesus as Jesus taught. The same Jesus who stated remain in Him by obeying His commands.

Only those who promote the law, promote sin, "for the strength of sin is the law". Those who teach grace are those who teach the power over sin;

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

The "willing" sin of scripture is to reject grace and return to the law of Moses, so not sure you understand the "commandments" you seem to think you are obeying? For if you are looking to the law of Moses, you are in fact breaking the commandments of God.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

 

[JLB]

So what do you think "faith" is in, if not in the saving and cleansing power of the Blood of Christ? In Gods sure promises?

From what I read in these post's, everyone agrees with this statement George.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Agreed. It takes faith to receive from the Lord, whether it is salvation, or healing, or provision. It is all contingent upon the person asking to have faith.


JLB

 

[gr8grace]

I will be honest. I walk in the flesh everyday. There are times that I don't even realize that I am walking in the flesh. I am Sure that I have a habitual sin that i don't even realize yet!(probably thousands).
When I compare Myself to a HOLY God...I HAVE to have sins that I don't even realize that i am doing or thinking. My motivations can't always be pure, my pride is always somewhere right behind. You could say that by most peoples standards my motivations are habitually impure.

By faithful study and learning bible doctrine and grace i have noticed that I can walk a little less in the flesh and am in more tune to where and how I sin. And Just by confessing to him My sin I am back in fellowship with him. Honestly though, every morning he hears just about the same prayer from me.

The thing is though, my flesh and no one else's flesh is Going to heaven. The new Creature in Christ is Going to heaven. The moment we are Born again we are a new creature in Christ and that creature is going to heaven, not our flesh. The only man made thing that makes it and made it to heaven are the scars we put on our Lord.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

As Christians, our flesh is NOT going, so walk in the Spirit. The new creature is going though. So feed it.(Bible doctrine). For Christians there is also an aspect of reigning with Christ in His Kingdom if we mature as Christians. Being a(carnal) Christian and walking in our flesh, we will be denied certain inheritance rights in His Kingdom.

As unbelievers these sins in this verse are distractions from the world to keep the unbeliever from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. They Keep the unbeliever distracted and in their flesh. Never making the decision to believe and Get the new creature that makes it to heaven.

 

[JLB]

And Just by confessing to him My sin I am back in fellowship with him.

Because you have faith that He will forgive you.

As Christians, our flesh is NOT going, so walk in the Spirit. The new creature is going though. So feed it.(Bible doctrine). For Christians there is also an aspect of reigning with Christ in His Kingdom if we mature as Christians. Being a(carnal) Christian and walking in our flesh, we will be denied certain inheritance rights in His Kingdom.

So feed it...

Amen Brother. Sow to the spirit.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His...

...but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Amen Brother, amen.

With this mindset, God will never let you go. You want Him. You want to live for Him.

Not the flesh nature but the real you.

For it is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure.


I believe with all my heart a person with this attitude, God will never let go of and will never be lost.


JLB

 

[reba]

I will be honest. I walk in the flesh everyday. There are times that I don't even realize that I am walking in the flesh. I am Sure that I have a habitual sin that i don't even realize yet!(probably thousands).
When I compare Myself to a HOLY God...I HAVE to have sins that I don't even realize that i am doing or thinking. My motivations can't always be pure, my pride is always somewhere right behind. You could say that by most peoples standards my motivations are habitually impure.

By faithful study and learning bible doctrine and grace i have noticed that I can walk a little less in the flesh and am in more tune to where and how I sin. And Just by confessing to him My sin I am back in fellowship with him. Honestly though, every morning he hears just about the same prayer from me.

The thing is though, my flesh and no one else's flesh is Going to heaven. The new Creature in Christ is Going to heaven. The moment we are Born again we are a new creature in Christ and that creature is going to heaven, not our flesh. The only man made thing that makes it and made it to heaven are the scars we put on our Lord.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

As Christians, our flesh is NOT going, so walk in the Spirit. The new creature is going though. So feed it.(Bible doctrine). For Christians there is also an aspect of reigning with Christ in His Kingdom if we mature as Christians. Being a(carnal) Christian and walking in our flesh, we will be denied certain inheritance rights in His Kingdom.

As unbelievers these sins in this verse are distractions from the world to keep the unbeliever from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. They Keep the unbeliever distracted and in their flesh. Never making the decision to believe and Get the new creature that makes it to heaven.

Reads about like a prayer everyone of us could pray daily Our sin is not mightier then His Blood ! Some posts are worth a repeat!

 

[Randy]

And Just by confessing to him My sin I am back in fellowship with him.

Because you have faith that He will forgive you.

As Christians, our flesh is NOT going, so walk in the Spirit. The new creature is going though. So feed it.(Bible doctrine). For Christians there is also an aspect of reigning with Christ in His Kingdom if we mature as Christians. Being a(carnal) Christian and walking in our flesh, we will be denied certain inheritance rights in His Kingdom.

So feed it...

Amen Brother. Sow to the spirit.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His...

...but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Amen Brother, amen.

With this mindset, God will never let you go. You want Him. You want to live for Him.

Not the flesh nature but the real you.

For it is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure.


I believe with all my heart a person with this attitude, God will never let go of and will never be lost.


JLB

John 15 note the word "if" :If you remain in me and I in you

One doesn't get on the naughty list unless they do something naughty. But if one does gets on that list and they come to their senses they can repent. As for those that walk in the Light they remain in the Lords Love. I believe John 15 can be taught as is without a OSAS theology. Especially to the young (teens) for in this world there is great temptation.

The Lords command (love one another)
It seemed good to us and the Holy Spirit (Ref Acts) Abstain from sexual immorality and food sacrificed to idols. I don't think idols is a problem in this age.
The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are to honor God with our bodies and we are not alone in this. The body of Christ is a big family.
R.

 

[JLB]

I will be honest. I walk in the flesh everyday. There are times that I don't even realize that I am walking in the flesh. I am Sure that I have a habitual sin that i don't even realize yet!(probably thousands).
When I compare Myself to a HOLY God...I HAVE to have sins that I don't even realize that i am doing or thinking. My motivations can't always be pure, my pride is always somewhere right behind. You could say that by most peoples standards my motivations are habitually impure.

By faithful study and learning bible doctrine and grace i have noticed that I can walk a little less in the flesh and am in more tune to where and how I sin. And Just by confessing to him My sin I am back in fellowship with him. Honestly though, every morning he hears just about the same prayer from me.

The thing is though, my flesh and no one else's flesh is Going to heaven. The new Creature in Christ is Going to heaven. The moment we are Born again we are a new creature in Christ and that creature is going to heaven, not our flesh. The only man made thing that makes it and made it to heaven are the scars we put on our Lord.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

As Christians, our flesh is NOT going, so walk in the Spirit. The new creature is going though. So feed it.(Bible doctrine). For Christians there is also an aspect of reigning with Christ in His Kingdom if we mature as Christians. Being a(carnal) Christian and walking in our flesh, we will be denied certain inheritance rights in His Kingdom.

As unbelievers these sins in this verse are distractions from the world to keep the unbeliever from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. They Keep the unbeliever distracted and in their flesh. Never making the decision to believe and Get the new creature that makes it to heaven.

Reads about like a prayer everyone of us could pray daily Our sin is not mightier then His Blood ! Some posts are worth a repeat!

 

[JLB]

If I were to go just by my experience, of all the times God has drawn me out of a backsliden situation, time and time again until I finally learned what not to do, and who not to associate with, then I would be in the OSAS camp.

However, I can not ignore what the scriptures say about this issue.

God is good and merciful and patient and longsuffering with me.

I am His son.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

So what do you think "faith" is in, if not in the saving and cleansing power of the Blood of Christ? In Gods sure promises?

From what I read in these post's, everyone agrees with this statement George.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Agreed. It takes faith to receive from the Lord, whether it is salvation, or healing, or provision. It is all contingent upon the person asking to have faith.


JLB

Good then maybe you can explain the point Jethro was attempting to make in that post? For it sure seemed he was trying to claim that true faith is in doubt?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So what do you think "faith" is in, if not in the saving and cleansing power of the Blood of Christ? In Gods sure promises?

From what I read in these post's, everyone agrees with this statement George.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Agreed. It takes faith to receive from the Lord, whether it is salvation, or healing, or provision. It is all contingent upon the person asking to have faith.


JLB

Good then maybe you can explain the point Jethro was attempting to make in that post? For it sure seemed he was trying to claim that true faith is in doubt?

Did you forget? You were making that point. Not me.

 

[George Muller]

And Just by confessing to him My sin I am back in fellowship with him.

Because you have faith that He will forgive you.

As Christians, our flesh is NOT going, so walk in the Spirit. The new creature is going though. So feed it.(Bible doctrine). For Christians there is also an aspect of reigning with Christ in His Kingdom if we mature as Christians. Being a(carnal) Christian and walking in our flesh, we will be denied certain inheritance rights in His Kingdom.

So feed it...

Amen Brother. Sow to the spirit.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His...

...but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Amen Brother, amen.

With this mindset, God will never let you go. You want Him. You want to live for Him.

Not the flesh nature but the real you.

For it is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure.


I believe with all my heart a person with this attitude, God will never let go of and will never be lost.


JLB

So "feed it with what" JLB? The law? which is not of faith? NO! Ones Spirit is fed and strengthened by faith in the sure promises of God, not in doubt and legalism. One can only truly be "walking in the spirit" when they walk in confidence of the Blood and in the confidence of GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS, ETERNAL RIGHTEOUSNESS. those WHO DOUBT ARE IN THE FLESH, because they base salvation upon their own ability and not the promises of God and His Grace.

 

[George Muller]

John 15 note the word "if" :If you remain in me and I in you

Yes and the only way one can be "cut-off" is if one rejects Christ and Gods righteousness in Him, and returns to the law and to seek to establish one own righteousness by keeping the law of Moses. Thus one has rejected the Spirit of grace and fallen from grace. Almost every warning against turning from faith is to those who are trying to justify themselves by the law, in some way.

 

[George Muller]

From what I read in these post's, everyone agrees with this statement George.



Agreed. It takes faith to receive from the Lord, whether it is salvation, or healing, or provision. It is all contingent upon the person asking to have faith.


JLB

Good then maybe you can explain the point Jethro was attempting to make in that post? For it sure seemed he was trying to claim that true faith is in doubt?

Did you forget? You were making that point. Not me.

No I say all this unbelief and doubt is "sin" and those who have these doubts should repent and believe and continue in the hope of the gospel.

What does that mean, if not that you believe that doubt is needed to be called faith? James spoke true words;

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.