OSAS The Truth

[Jesse]

Why would I want to disobey?

Yes I had free will at the point when I was born again, but if we have a well grounded "father" that led us to the Lord he will advise us to turn that free will over to Jesus immediately, ...before we are born again satan is sitting on the throne that is in our hearts and ruling our lives, when we are born again he is booted out by Jesus, but, ...Jesus is a perfect Gentleman and He won't take the position until we ask Him to, that basically is the difference between a carnal Christian and one walking in the Spirit, ...so, when I was taught this I immediately asked Jesus to rule in my heart, ...the New Testament teaches I'm in Christ, Jesus is guiding and directing my life, He has called me to obey Him and in love I do, the more I walk with Him the more I see how competent He is, so, ...after all these years why would I even want to jump ship, it's the farthest thing from my mind, what actually occupies my mind is I'm walking with my Lord towards the Heavenly New Jerusalem, I'm sure of my salvation because I know Who I have intrusted it with, ...I'm OSAS and that is what I teach others, all this others stuff is just someone's vain imagination an interpretation of Scripture taken out of context.

Well, Karl, freegrace made the claim that we don't need to love in order to be saved, even though those are the most important commandments Jesus told us to obey.

So in order to obey them, we must love the Lord and our neighbor.

To disobey (as freegrace has stated was ok to do), then it would mean we do not love the Lord nor do we love our neighbor.

My argument is we must Love the Lord in order to inherit the Kingdom, otherwise why would one want to even go there?

 

[FreeGrace]

Well, if you don't have a relationship with Christ he will say "I never knew you"...so what do you think?

The key is what is meant by "relationship". When one believes, they are placed "in union with Christ", per Eph 1:13,14, and the Holy Spirit is the seal of promise FOR the day of redemption. There is no other way to understand Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 but that once faith, always saved and sealed For the day of redemption.

People who do not love the Lord will not inherit the Kingdom seems how that is the 1st, most important commandment - Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind and soul.

I understand "not inherit the kingdom" as loss of reward IN the kingdom, not "not getting into the kingdom".

You think we can enter and disobey his commandments?

By the time any of us does enter eternity, we will have shed our sin natures, so no, we can't enter and then disobey. That would be silly to even contemplate.

Obedience is not a "works" as so many people believe. Obedience is required, we are to be as Christ and that includes obedience.

Required for what, specifically? Salvation or rewards?

 

[Karl]

Well, Karl, freegrace made the claim that we don't need to love in order to be saved, even though those are the most important commandments Jesus told us to obey.

So in order to obey them, we must love the Lord and our neighbor.

To disobey (as freegrace has stated was ok to do), then it would mean we do not love the Lord nor do we love our neighbor.

My argument is we must Love the Lord in order to inherit the Kingdom, otherwise why would one want to even go there?

I don't know what freegrace said, but consider this, ...Lot was a selfish, egotistical man to the point of giving his underage daughters to be sexually abused, but he is declared righteous by Peter and will be in Heaven.

 

[Jesse]

Are you sinless JLB? Every time you sin, you are departing from Christ and the truth and are a hypocrite. You just have it figured out that you don't do it "enough" to lose your salvation? Do you even believe you will make it? Or are you on the fence about going to heaven?

The mistake OSAS people make is they think it's about the number of sins we commit or don't commit.

Or that "sinning enough" or "not sinning enough" has something to do with it.

It has everything to do with YOU choosing to continue to walk with the Lord or not. Jesus said abide in me - this is something you do - you can chose to NOT abide in Him. Why do you think He told YOU to abide in Him? Because He knows the pulls of this world could cause you to stray.

The way is narrow, not wide, few will find it....

Matthew 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[FreeGrace]

There is a lot going on with this verse than you are aware of.

Well, please edumacate me, then.

 

[Jesse]

I don't know what freegrace said, but consider this, ...Lot was a selfish, egotistical man to the point of giving his underage daughters to be sexually abused, but he is declared righteous by Peter and will be in Heaven.

That's because he didn't walk away from the Lord.....

we all sin, we will always sin while we are on the earth, God forgives, but some people fall into sin, never going back to the Lord, their hearts harden towards him and they walk away.

The Bible warns us of this over and over and over again.

Are you a universal?

The way is not wide....it's narrow and few will find it.

 

[FreeGrace]

So we can disobey our entire lives....and remain saved. LOL

God's hand of discipline is no laughing matter, friend. Do you really think being handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh is no big thing?

Here is the commandment according to freegrace:

Love the Lord (if you want to) with all your heart (whenever you feel like it), mind (when you think about it) and soul (but not really).

Did God mean what He said or not?

Yes, He did. But what was the context; for salvation or for blessings? Please research and answer.

If you love him, you will keep his commandments.

Of course.

 

[Jesse]

God's hand of discipline is no laughing matter, friend. Do you really think being handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh is no big thing?

.

I am aware of the Lord's discipline, he will hang you over an abyss and at the next minute pull you up. His discipline can be painful, it's eye opening, it causes one to lament for hours!

Yet not all will respond to His discipline. He doesn't want us to walk away, but he isn't going to force you to keep walking with him.

 

[JLB]

Are you sinless JLB? Every time you sin, you are departing from Christ and the truth and are a hypocrite. You just have it figured out that you don't do it "enough" to lose your salvation? Do you even believe you will make it? Or are you on the fence about going to heaven?

I continue to believe, and I continue to receive the forgiveness of my sins.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7


Without believing, you can't walk in the light.

Without believing you can't do the work of abiding.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

So you are teaching that those who believe for a while, in Jesus's teaching, are in fact saved even though the did not continue to believe, and departed in the time of temptation.

I teach what the Bible says. God's gifts which are imputed righteousness and eternal life are irrevocable. That is irrefutable.

Freegrace says:

believe = saved

Believe for a while then depart = saved

God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable.

The Gospel according to Freegrace: believe for a while then depart and you will be saved.

The Gospel according to Paul: Believe on the Lord and you will be saved.

There's no real difference between what you ascribe to me and to Paul.

In order to refute my view, you'd have to find verses from Paul where he clearly warned of loss of salvation. Instead, we have the guarantee that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Paul's warning:
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:12-14

You have no evidence at all that Paul wrote Hebrews. In fact, the style is totally different than Paul's. Could have been Barnabas, but more than likely not Paul.

What the author of Hebrews is saying here is that believbers CAN depart from God. Do you know what the Greek word for "partakers" means? It means to be a partner. This isn't anything about salvation. It's about partnership.

Paul says we need to continue to the end, if we want to be a partaker of Christ.

Yep. Nothing here about salvation. You're misunderstanding a lot of Scripture.

Jesus says those who endure to the end will be saved. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

Please check out the context before quoting a verse that doesn't support your view. Specifically the "end" of what?

Sorry Freegrace, you are teaching another Gospel that Jesus nor Paul taught.

Sorry JLB, but you've made many mistakes in your post. First, Paul did not write Hebrews. Second, you illegitimately brought in Matt 24:13 which is not related to Hebrews at all.

Paul warned us of such things -

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron.1 Timothy 4:1-2

Yes, JLB, believers have and will continue to depart from the faith. That says NOTHING about loss of salvation.

Paul also refuted your view directly between the eyes in Rom 11:29 when he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable, which was AFTER he defined God's gifts as imputed righteousness in Rom 5:15,17 and eternal life in 6:23.

Your view is refuted.

 

[FreeGrace]

Well, Karl, freegrace made the claim that we don't need to love in order to be saved, even though those are the most important commandments Jesus told us to obey.

So in order to obey them, we must love the Lord and our neighbor.

To disobey (as freegrace has stated was ok to do), then it would mean we do not love the Lord nor do we love our neighbor.

To be clear, keeping the commands is impossible, which Peter made clear in Acts 15:10 at the Jerusalem council. If one must love God in order to be saved, which verse specifically says that? I'll save you some time here and tell you that there aren't any. We are saved by grace through faith. Not love.

The Law was put into effect as a tutor to lead us to Christ. Gal 3:24-25 - 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

You believe something that the Bible does not teach.

My argument is we must Love the Lord in order to inherit the Kingdom, otherwise why would one want to even go there?

Here, I'll agree with you. Because "inheriting the kingdom" is about rewards, not about getting INto the kingdom.

 

[FreeGrace]

The mistake OSAS people make is they think it's about the number of sins we commit or don't commit.

Blatantly untre. It's the non-OSASers who make all the issue about sin. All sin was paid for by Christ on the cross, which in itself should make ashamed all who claim that sin can cause one to lose their salvation.

Or that "sinning enough" or "not sinning enough" has something to do with it.

Again, false claim.

It has everything to do with YOU choosing to continue to walk with the Lord or not. Jesus said abide in me - this is something you do - you can chose to NOT abide in Him. Why do you think He told YOU to abide in Him? Because He knows the pulls of this world could cause you to stray.

To "walk with the Lord" is an issue of fellowship, not getting saved, as your statement here strongly suggests. No one is saved by walking with the Lord.

We are saved by grace through faith. Not by taking a walk, etc.

 

[FreeGrace]

I am aware of the Lord's discipline, he will hang you over an abyss and at the next minute pull you up. His discipline can be painful, it's eye opening, it causes one to lament for hours!

Yet not all will respond to His discipline. He doesn't want us to walk away, but he isn't going to force you to keep walking with him.

None of this will result in loss of salvation.

Are you aware that eternal life is a gift? Rom 6:23 says so. And are you aware that God's gifts are irrevocable? Rom 11:29 says so.

What are you going to do about that?

 

[FreeGrace]

I continue to believe, and I continue to receive the forgiveness of my sins.

You've provided zero verses to support your assumption that one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

It's always helpful to check the context before making mistakes. What is the subject of 1 Jn 1? Fellowship, not salvation.

 

[Jesse]

To be clear, keeping the commands is impossible, which Peter made clear in Acts 15:10 at the Jerusalem council. If one must love God in order to be saved, which verse specifically says that? I'll save you some time here and tell you that there aren't any. We are saved by grace through faith. Not love.

The Law was put into effect as a tutor to lead us to Christ. Gal 3:24-25 - 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

You believe something that the Bible does not teach.


Here, I'll agree with you. Because "inheriting the kingdom" is about rewards, not about getting INto the kingdom.

FreeGrace,

Love fulfills the Law. If we're not loving, we're in grave disobedience. Not loving is remaining in the darkness, because love is Light.

Jesus fulfilled the law IN US so that we are able to keep His commandments, the two greatest commandments are to love the Lord and love our neighbor, try stealing from your neighbor while you are loving him.

Please read this verse:
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

We no longer live by the flesh, but by the Spirit. The flesh could not keep the law, but the Spirit can and He lives in us, so that is what Jesus did for you and me.

Here is another one about loving our neighbor:
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

A person without Love remains in darkness and in the flesh, and no flesh will enter His Kingdom.

 

[Jesse]

None of this will result in loss of salvation.

Are you aware that eternal life is a gift? Rom 6:23 says so. And are you aware that God's gifts are irrevocable? Rom 11:29 says so.

What are you going to do about that?

I can tell you that if Love is not part of a person's life, they haven't accepted His gift, that's for sure.

 

[FreeGrace]

FreeGrace,

Love fulfills the Law. If we're not loving, we're in grave disobedience. Not loving is remaining in the darkness, because love is Light.

No doubt.

Jesus fulfilled the law IN US so that we are able to keep His commandments

Do you realize what you are saying here? If you were correct, we all should be able to become sinless. Are you going to defend that position?

Please read this verse:
Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

We no longer live by the flesh, but by the Spirit. The flesh could not keep the law, but the Spirit can and He lives in us, so that is what Jesus did for you and me.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is in us. But we, when sinning, grieve the Spirit (Eph 4:30) and quench the Spirit (1 Cor 5:19). So it isn't automatic. But Paul made clear that we will never achieve sinless perfection as long as we reside in our earthly bodies.

A person without Love remains in darkness and in the flesh, and no flesh will enter His Kingdom.

Of course "no flesh" will enter the kingdom. We all shed our earthly (fleshly) bodies at death. Duh.

 

[FreeGrace]

I can tell you that if Love is not part of a person's life, they haven't accepted His gift, that's for sure.

That's an opinion. The gift is accepted by faith, not by love. Aren't you aware of Eph 2:8 and Jn 1:12?

 

[Jesse]

That's an opinion. The gift is accepted by faith, not by love. Aren't you aware of Eph 2:8 and Jn 1:12?

Hey, you can disregard love all you want......

If love is non existence in you, good luck....

 

[Jesse]

No doubt.


Do you realize what you are saying here? If you were correct, we all should be able to become sinless. Are you going to defend that position?

That would be what we are shooting for....we are transforming to Christ. Not saying we will become sinless but we are to try and attain to it... the standard is Christ, so that is who I want to emulate, right?

Try being as Christ without love......