Your answer shows you either didn't read my post, or you simply do not understand my explanation of how can Paul can say Jews have lost the gifts of God, then say Israel's gifts are irrevocable.
I have the same feeling about you not reading my posts. Paul NEVER said anything about Israel having lost any gifts. Where do you read that??
State my argument back to me in your own words so I can tell whether you understand what I wrote. I'm not asking you to agree with it. I'm asking you to simply restate my argument back to me so I know that you heard it, and that you heard it correctly. Your opinion of my argument is meaningless until you first understand it.
The problem is your lack of understanding my argument. Which has nothing to do with Jews, per se. My only point is that God's gifts are irrevocable. So I don't care whether you want to talk about what God has given the Jews, or the gifts He has given to Gentiles. God's gifts (all of them) are irrevocable.
If you disagree, you're going to have to prove from Scripture clearly WHICH gifts were revoked.
Jews who have rejected the promises made to them through Abraham and died in that rejection can not later retrieve what they forfeited while they were alive. That doesn't make the promises null and void.
Here's your problem. Inserting your idea into Scripture. There is NOTHING about Jews forfeiting anything. Where are you getting that??
It means Jews who don't reject the promises will receive the irrevocable promises made to Abraham.
What you keep ignoring is that once a gift is received, it is irrevocable. You've not shown otherwise.
There has always been a remnant that God has reserved for himself who have believed the promises made to Abraham.
And those who rejected the gift never received the gift.
[Edited snide comment. WIP]
But it is only until the nation of Jews accept them as a whole, as a nation, that the nation itself will enter into the promises.
This is irrelevant. Whether individually or corporately, once a gift is given, it is irrevocable. That was Paul's point. But you believe otherwise, and without a shred of support.
Later generations of Jews will do this. They are the ones who will enjoy the calling and gifts that God will not revoke just because past generations of Jews rejected them.
God never revoked any gifts. You have no basis to make that claim.
Well of course you don't give a hoot. You can't give a hoot who has, and who hasn't been given the gifts, or who will be given the gifts, because your doctrine falls apart if you do that.
Wrong again. When a gift is received, it is IRREVOCABLE. But you don't believe what Paul wrote.
And you've again twisted my words. I don't give a hoot about WHO gets a gift. Not about the whole matter of gifts.
You have NOT proven your claim that gifts are revoked.
If you did give a hoot you'd see that the gifts are irrevocable in that God will not remove the promises from the nation of Israel as a whole just because past generations have rejected them and are cut off from the promises.
This is irrelevant. No one got their gift revoked. Anyone who received a gift still has it. And you've not shown otherwise.
Any Jew that rejects the promises and dies in that unbelief doesn't get them, nor will he ever.
Right!! He never got them. So, there's NOTHING to revoke.
[Edited condescending remark. WIP]
They are not 'irrevocable' in regard to any one Jew not getting them because of unbelief, then dying in his unbelief, and then somehow getting them because they're irrevocable.
You're still not getting this. When a person receives a gift, that gift is IRREVOCABLE.
They are irrevocable in that the promises made to the descendants of Abraham as a whole will never be revoked and will be realized one day by a nation of Jews who will receive them.
Completely wrong. This has nothing to do with early or late Jews. It's about who received the gift. Anyone who received a gift still HAS the gift. And you've not shown otherwise.
Paul talks about the Jews who have been cut out of the vine. What you can't do is prove that the very Jews who have been cut out of the vine because of unbelief and have died in that unbelief are still going to get them despite their unbelief.
And I don't ever intend to try to prove such nonsense. The status of being "cut out of the vine" refers to whether one is useful to God or not. This isn't even about salvation. The agricultural figurative language isn't about heaven or hell at all, but about being useful to God (the farmer) or not.
Even believers who lose faith are NOT useful to God. So it isn't about staying saved at all.
Other Jews who believe are the one's who are going to receive the promises.
Anyone who believes receives eternal life. Which is a gift from God, which is irrevocable.
They are the ones that will be grafted back into the vine. Not the unbelieving ones who die in their unbelief.
Those who NEVER believed NEVER received the gift.
[Deleted snide remark. WIP] But… once one does believe, they do receive the gift, and that gift is irrevocable.
There is nothing 'irrevocable' about the gifts for them. They lost them. They're out. Other obedient, believing Jews are the ones for whom it is true that the gifts are irrevocable for the nation of Israel as a whole.
Which gifts, specifically, were "lost" by Jews? Please list them. I still have no idea what gifts you are referring to.
