Paul's meaning of "gifts" in Rom 11:29

[turnorburn]

Glad you asked, I have no problem answering your questions tob.

Let's look at it within the context shall we, that's always a good approach to understanding Scripture.

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, Romans 11:25-26 (ESV)

Paul is very clearly expressing God's intent for the salvation of Israel, that we should not be unaware of this mystery concerning his plan. That in the present a partial hardening has come upon Israel, and this will continue until "the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." There appears to be a time in God's redemptive history where the period of the Gentiles will come into a head and will inspire the Israelites to jealousy (Romans 11:14). Then all Israel will be saved, and Paul quotes Isaiah 59:20-21 to cite that this is to fulfill a prophecy. That it was always God's intent to restore Israel, even as he foresaw their fall, but intended for more mercy through their disobedience.

i think we all know that salvation is conditional so how will all Israel be saved?

tob

 

[Malachi]

i think we all know that salvation is conditional so how will all Israel be saved?

When Israel as a nation is threatened with extinction by all the armies of the world under Satan, and Christ appears in "power and great glory" to deliver them, they all will "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved" (Acts 16:31). It will be a day of national repentance (just like Nineveh when Jonah preached).

 

[FreeGrace]

This is gleaned from the context. This whole section is about Israel.

I don't think we should dwell too long on the meaning of charisma, but rather on the context of what Paul is saying. A word's meaning is provided by the way it is used.

I wasn't dwelling on the meaning. I am focused on how he used it.

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:25-29 (ESV)

As you can see from the surrounding context, it is clear he is speaking about Israel. He warns them not to be wise in their own sight, to not think too much of themselves as God has a plan for Israel. That though there has been a partial hardening of Israel, there will also come a future salvation. The "they" referenced in v.28 is clearly Israel, and v.29 is an explanation of v.28. Which one is of course to conclude that the gifts and callings specifically being mentioned are those given to Israel, it is an appeal to God's faithfulness as it relates to Israel.

The immediate context is the salvation of Israel, he is not talking about our individual salvation.

So, what was Paul referring to by the phrase "God's gifts" then? Could you point them out in context?

"And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written" Romans 11:26 (ESV)

Paul is alluding to God's Covenant faithfulness on account of their forefathers for their future salvation, that though they have fallen, God's gifts and callings are irrevocable and he will bring them back into the fold.

OK, where does Paul specify God's gifts to Israel, and God's calling to Israel?

This is summarized in Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Romans 11:32 (ESV)

I highly recommend reading Romans 11 a couple times start to finish, even reading Romans 9-11 to gain a fuller context to see what God is talking about. You have to remember that Paul is dealing with the issue of the inclusion of the Gentiles and the faithfulness of God in relation to the rejection of ethnic Israel. They were expecting the Messiah to setup an earthly throne over the kingdom of Israel and save them from Roman occupation, and usher in their concept of the Messianic Age. God had bigger plans, which involved saving the world and thus the cross was a stumbling block to the Jews, as a crucified Messiah is not what they were expecting. These were extremely central issues and at the heart of Paul's message, if we fail to realize how big a deal the inclusion of the Gentiles was then we will misread Paul and the rest of the New Testament.

Just trying to find within context what Paul had in mind about "God's gifts and calling" as they relate to Israel.

The reason is that Paul has already used both words previously in his letter. I would think those uses would be the context. But, if Israel is the recipient of God's gifts and calling, where is that clearly noted?

 

[FreeGrace]

I agree. But why didn't you do that. The context isn't where else in the Bible we find the same word, but what Paul was talking about in that passage.

I did do that. In fact, for me, his entire letter is the context for what he was writing about.

Let's look at the context.

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. (Rom. 11:28-32 ESV)
​

God gave the gift of salvation to the Hebrews, and it will not be permanently taken away from them. They are only temporarily blinded, because the gift God gave them cannot be taken from them.

The TOG​

​

I'm not seeing any mention of "the gift of salvation to the Hebrews". Are you meaning individually or as a collective group? And we know that not all Israel is Israel, meaning not all of them will be saved.

Further, those "temporarily blinded" aren't getting saved, so how can Paul be referring to an irrevocable gift that hasn't even been received?

Since Paul already used the word to describe both eternal life (6:23) and justification (5:15,16), it seems to make more sense to understand that those are what he had in mind.

 

[FreeGrace]

Two good responses. I too have indicated such in another thread. But was only relegated to nonsense. The context is quite clear, and the conclusion is seemingly understood by most laymen and scholars. This is what happens when someones bias overrules logical reason. Not only has God not forsaken Yisrael he has promised to restore her and take away our sins. Any other message is not the gospel. It leaves the Messiah of Yisrael coming and rejecting those whe was sent to redeem. There will be no redmption of the nations without the redemption of Yisrael. God has not forsaken his people.

It isn't the Messiah who rejects people. It's people who reject the Messiah.

But, could you specify the gifts that Paul had in mind when he wrote 11:29? Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

You keep appealing to texts outside of Romans 11. Perhaps you can address the direct context, where Paul is making his specific reasoning about ethnic Israel.

Please provide your interpretation of Romans 11, making sense out of texts such as the Gentiles being saved in order to make Israel jealous. How is that coherent in your perspective?

The OP is about what Paul had in mind when he wrote about "God's gifts" which are irrevocable.

If the salvation of Israel was in mind, and we know that not all Jews are being saved, how does that make sense?

 

[FreeGrace]

What do you make of this statement?

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

tob

Consider the immediate context. The "shall be saved" indicates a future time. He certainly can't be referring to all Jews throughout all history. What follows that phrase is: "as it is written…", which is a quote from Isa 27:9.

Though my study Bible does not link to Dan 12:1, the wording is very similar.
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

The 'distress' refers to the Great Tribulation. The next verse clearly indicates a time after the Tribulation:
“Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

So, 11:26 refers to all Jews alive in Israel when Christ returns will be delivered (saved) from their enemies. IOW, this isn't about eternal salvation, but about physical deliverance from enemies who have surrounded Israel and were ready to pounce on her to destroy her.

 

[Shimshon]

THE DUAL STATUS OF ISRAEL

IN ROMANS 11:28

The description of “all Israel” in Rom 11:28, then, not only indicates that
the unbelieving nation as a whole is in view, but also points to the fact that that
nation will one day be restored. God made specific promises to the nation of Israel,
and her refusal to embrace Christ and the gospel did not mean that the gospel had
failed or that God would fail to fulfill those promises. In the words of Bloesch: “His
rejection of his people is not final but only provisional. In the No of God’s rejection
is hidden the Y es of his election.”
58 All Israel will be saved.
CONCLUSION
It is clear that only the interpretation of view 3 corresponds to the dual
status of “all Israel” as po rtrayed in Rom 11:28, for only this interpretation envisions
a scenario in which both clauses of the verse are simultaneously and presently true
of the entity “all Israel.” On the one hand the unbelieving nation of Israel is an
enemy of God, but on the other she is beloved by Him. W hen the partial hardening
of Israel is removed at the end of the present age (Rom 11:25), her present
“transgression” will give way to her “fulfillment” (Rom 11:12); her present
“rejection” will give way to her “acceptance” (Rom 11:15); and the natural branches
will be grafted back in (Rom 11:23-24). And in this manner, all Israel will be saved
in accordance with God’s covenantal love and in fulfillment of His promises (Rom
11:26-27). God has not, and will not, forsake His chosen nation.

This seminary article not only identifies your questions but answers them very well.

 

[chessman]

First, thanks for sharing your study with us. Two comments, then my take.

2 Cor 1:11 - "you also joining in helping us through your prayers, so that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the favor bestowed on us through the prayers of many." NASB

Here, Paul uses charisma as the favor through the prayers of many. Here, neither eternal life nor spiritual gifts are in view.

Slight disagreement on your 2 Cor 1 occurence: It could be that their prayers were for spiritual gifts to be given to Paul or Eternal Life be given to the many persons he mentions. But even if their prayers were for something else, as trivial as safe travel with his money, the gifts were being bestowed by God, and thus just as irrevocable as God's other gifts, IMO.

Also, In speaking of the spiritual gifts, even though they are as unique as prophecy is to healing, they share a common attribute. They are manifestations of the Spirit (God) within each believing person(s).

1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is beneficial to all.​

The implication being, well, obvious. That is, if the spiritual gifts are included in a listing of God's gifts (plural) that are irrevocable per Rom 11:29 (along side Eternal Life and _____, and ____) then not only is the gift of Eternal Life irrevocable but so is the Holy Spirit's manifestation within each person.

Here is the issue: if Paul had ONLY in mind spiritual gifts in 11:29, how would one prove that from the epistle?

Well, the proof is obvious that Paul had more than just spiritual gifts in mind.

I would say that since Paul specifically called Eternal Life a gift, it is included just as much as any other gift of God's is included.

And, in a way, what difference does it make if Paul meant spiritual gifts (or some unmentioned gifts to Jews) since a spiritual gift IS, by definition, a manifestation of God within every believer and both Jews and Greek believers all have this same Holy Spirit.

So, please prove your view of what Paul had in mind regarding the "gifts" of 11:29.

My view is that Paul had in mind ALL gifts of God in Romans 11:29. Eternal Life, Spiritual gifts, Jewish gifts and non-Jewish gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:7, 11, 13 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is beneficial to all. But in all these things one and the same Spirit is at work, distributing to each one individually just as he wishes.
​

And my view is that it makes zero difference whether it was gifts to Jews only he had in mind or gifts to Greeks or gifts to Americans or spiritual gifts or Eternal life gifts. What possible difference does it make that Paul happened to be talking about Jews prior (or even during) verse 29 and spiritual gifts to non-Jews after in chapter 12? It's all one Spirit calling and gifting.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.​

All gifts's of God are irrevocable, is my sense of what Paul meant in 11:29.

 

[Shimshon]

It isn't the Messiah who rejects people. It's people who reject the Messiah.

But, could you specify the gifts that Paul had in mind when he wrote 11:29? Thanks.

I have, you've rejected them as nonsense. How about understanding the dual condition of Yisrael in Rom 11:28? 'enemies' YET 'beloved'........ Could you specify the love for Yisrael that God promised would endure forever? When you realize this you may just see the irrevocable calling given Yisrael.

 

[FreeGrace]

It's a good question, and can be answered by reading the whole chapter and then focusing on verses 26-29. So the "gifts" in view are:
1. SALVATION FOR THE JEWS -- "All Israel shall be saved".
2. REDEEMED AND RESTORED ISRAEL -- "Sion (Zion)"
3. CHRIST THE MESSIAH AND KING -- "out of Sion the Deliverer"
4. RIGHTEOUSNESS -- "shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob"
5. THE NEW COVENANT -- "For this is my Covenant unto them"
6. REMISSION OF SINS -- "I shall take away their sins"
7. THE GOSPEL -- "As concerning the Gospel"
8. DIVINE ELECTION -- "as touching the election" (thus "and calling")
9. GOD'S UNCHANGING LOVE -- "they are beloved"
10. GOD'S FAITHFULNESS -- "for the fathers' sakes"

But how do you know Paul considered all these things gifts?

And per #8, there is a very big difference between being called and being chosen. And neither are ever described as gifts.

As regarding which ones of these would be considered gifts, they are:
#1 per Rom 6:23, and #4 per Rom 5:15,16. Paul did describe both as gifts in his letter to the Romans. I don't find any of the others being described as gifts anywhere else in Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

First, thanks for sharing your study with us. Two comments, then my take.


Slight disagreement on your 2 Cor 1 occurence: It could be that their prayers were for spiritual gifts to be given to Paul or Eternal Life be given to the many persons he mentions. But even if their prayers were for something else, as trivial as safe travel with his money, the gifts were being bestowed by God, and thus just as irrevocable as God's other gifts, IMO.

Also, In speaking of the spiritual gifts, even though they are as unique as prophecy is to healing, they share a common attribute. They are manifestations of the Spirit (God) within each believing person(s).

1 Corinthians 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is beneficial to all.​

The implication being, well, obvious. That is, if the spiritual gifts are included in a listing of God's gifts (plural) that are irrevocable per Rom 11:29 (along side Eternal Life and _____, and ____) then not only is the gift of Eternal Life irrevocable but so is the Holy Spirit's manifestation within each person.


Well, the proof is obvious that Paul had more than just spiritual gifts in mind.

I would say that since Paul specifically called Eternal Life a gift, it is included just as much as any other gift of God's is included.

And, in a way, what difference does it make if Paul meant spiritual gifts (or some unmentioned gifts to Jews) since a spiritual gift IS, by definition, a manifestation of God within every believer and both Jews and Greek believers all have this same Holy Spirit.



My view is that Paul had in mind ALL gifts of God in Romans 11:29. Eternal Life, Spiritual gifts, Jewish gifts and non-Jewish gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:7, 11, 13 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for what is beneficial to all. But in all these things one and the same Spirit is at work, distributing to each one individually just as he wishes.
​

And my view is that it makes zero difference whether it was gifts to Jews only he had in mind or gifts to Greeks or gifts to Americans or spiritual gifts or Eternal life gifts. What possible difference does it make that Paul happened to be talking about Jews prior (or even during) verse 29 and spiritual gifts to non-Jews after in chapter 12? It's all one Spirit calling and gifting.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit.​

All gifts's of God are irrevocable, is my sense of what Paul meant in 11:29.

 

[FreeGrace]

I have, you've rejected them as nonsense.

As "nonsense"?? In what post?

How about understanding the dual condition of Yisrael in Rom 11:28? 'enemies' YET 'beloved'........ Could you specify the love for Yisrael that God promised would endure forever? When you realize this you may just see the irrevocable calling given Yisrael.

I do understand the "dual condition" of Israel. That isn't the point, imho. But where do you see "irrevocable calling" given Israel? Israel was chosen by God, not called. The words are quite different. Further, many are called, few are chosen, which demonstrates just how different they are.

And, Paul already used the word "called" in his letter. I think it is clear what he had in mind.

 

[Shimshon]

As "nonsense"?? In what post?


I do understand the "dual condition" of Israel. That isn't the point, imho. But where do you see "irrevocable calling" given Israel? Israel was chosen by God, not called. The words are quite different. Further, many are called, few are chosen, which demonstrates just how different they are.

And, Paul already used the word "called" in his letter. I think it is clear what he had in mind.

Yisrael was promised to be elected, not just called.

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
​

In regards to being called (the gospel) they are enemies, as you are so easy to make them out to be. Yet, in regards to the election (being chosen) they are beloved 'for the sake of 'our forefathers'.

Yes, I showed you where Yisrael was given the gift of 'inheritance'. A promise of being a people with a land, and an instruction that brings forth life eternal, namely Messiah. This was the gift of mercy given Abraham, that though he be childless he would be the father of many nations, including THE nation that would bring forth the Messiah that would not only have 'his/our' people but the nations of the world.

A people more numerous than the stars and the sand, a land flowing with milk and honey, a Word (Torah) spoken from heaven an instruction that brings life, a Messiah that redeems us from sins (the life promised Yisrael through the Torah). What gifts has God given Yisrael?? Have you not read the bible? Cont....​

Has god forsaken Yisrael? Will Messiah remove Jacobs sins? Why is Yisrael beloved in regards to being elected?

 

[gr8grace3]

The OP is about what Paul had in mind when he wrote about "God's gifts" which are irrevocable.

If the salvation of Israel was in mind, and we know that not all Jews are being saved, how does that make sense?

What about Romans 9:4 and the Gifts of God?

Romans 9:4~~New American Standard Bible
who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

Titus 1:2~~New American Standard Bible
in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

1 John 2:25~~New American Standard Bible
This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

Romans 6:23~~New American Standard Bible
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 11:29~~New American Standard Bible
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Romans 15:8~~New Living Translation
Remember that Christ came as a servant to the Jews to show that God is true to the promises he made to their ancestors.

But really, Romans 6:23 clears it all up. It is a gracious gift,a FREE gift.If It was revocable in any way it would not be a gracious or free gift.

 

[Malachi]

But how do you know Paul considered all these things gifts?

It is not what "Paul considered" but what "God considered". Paul simply wrote the words given to Him by the Holy Spirit. And it is the CONTEXT which tells you that this is what Paul means by "the gifts and calling" as applied to redeemed Israel.

And per #8, there is a very big difference between being called and being chosen. And neither are ever described as gifts.

Really? Check Rom 8:28-34. Look for the words "called" and "elect" (KJV) and see how everything fits together. As for God's "calling" not being a gift, SALVATION [which ecompasses a whole range of blessings and benefits is a GIFT of God (Eph 2:8,9)]. Therefore all related blessings are "gifts". Unless one can prove that anything in that passage can be earned.

As regarding which ones of these would be considered gifts, they are: #1 per Rom 6:23, and #4 per Rom 5:15,16. Paul did describe both as gifts in his letter to the Romans. I don't find any of the others being described as gifts anywhere else in Scripture.

The "spiritual gifts" mentioned in 1 Cor 12-14 (or elsewhere) have nothing whatsoever to do with this passage. At the same time it can be applied generically to ALL gifts from God (which is a separate issue). Ask yourself "Is Christ a gift to mankind?" "Is Christ a gift to the believer?" Then take each item listed and ask yourself the same question. Is redemption a gift, or can it be earned? Is restoration a gift, or can it be earned? You must keep "the gifts and calling" within the context in which that phrase is used. Everything connect with Christ and the New Covenant is a gift of God's grace. Christ the Deliverer is a much as gift to Israel as Christ the Savior is to the Church.

 

[Malachi]

If the salvation of Israel was in mind, and we know that not all Jews are being saved, how does that make sense?

Paul is talking about the future redemption and restoration of Israel at the Second Coming of Christ. Hence "There shall come out of Sion (Jerusalem) the Deliverer". Christ will stand on the Mount of Olives and it will split apart. Christ will deliver Israel from the armies surrounding it under Satan. That's what he briefly sums up in Rom 11:26, but one must go through all the prophecies to understand this. There will be national repentance and national salvation in the future for Israel. After that the redeemed and restored nation will be established as promised, and Christ will rule over it with the apostles.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes, I meant Romans. lol

Was in a little bit of a hurry writing that.


This is gleaned from the context. This whole section is about Israel.

I don't think we should dwell too long on the meaning of charisma, but rather on the context of what Paul is saying. A word's meaning is provided by the way it is used.

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:25-29 (ESV)

As you can see from the surrounding context, it is clear he is speaking about Israel. He warns them not to be wise in their own sight, to not think too much of themselves as God has a plan for Israel. That though there has been a partial hardening of Israel, there will also come a future salvation. The "they" referenced in v.28 is clearly Israel, and v.29 is an explanation of v.28. Which one is of course to conclude that the gifts and callings specifically being mentioned are those given to Israel, it is an appeal to God's faithfulness as it relates to Israel.


The immediate context is the salvation of Israel, he is not talking about our individual salvation.

"And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written" Romans 11:26 (ESV)

Paul is alluding to God's Covenant faithfulness on account of their forefathers for their future salvation, that though they have fallen, God's gifts and callings are irrevocable and he will bring them back into the fold.

This is summarized in Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Romans 11:32 (ESV)

I highly recommend reading Romans 11 a couple times start to finish, even reading Romans 9-11 to gain a fuller context to see what God is talking about. You have to remember that Paul is dealing with the issue of the inclusion of the Gentiles and the faithfulness of God in relation to the rejection of ethnic Israel. They were expecting the Messiah to setup an earthly throne over the kingdom of Israel and save them from Roman occupation, and usher in their concept of the Messianic Age. God had bigger plans, which involved saving the world and thus the cross was a stumbling block to the Jews, as a crucified Messiah is not what they were expecting. These were extremely central issues and at the heart of Paul's message, if we fail to realize how big a deal the inclusion of the Gentiles was then we will misread Paul and the rest of the New Testament.

I agree, but you answered the OP much better than I would have.

 

[chessman]

THE DUAL STATUS OF ISRAEL

IN ROMANS 11:28
This seminary article not only identifies your questions but answers them very well.

It's a great treatment of the three different views of who Paul means by "all Israel" in verse 28. I think view three makes the most sense of the text. But it's not an article about specifically answering the OP question. What, exactly, are "the gifts" of verse 29. The only real address of this question appears here:

Paul’s point in v. 29 is that the gifts and calling of God are “irrevocable” (ametamelta). This adjective, which Paul places at the beginning of the verse for emphasis, is best translated “irrevocable,” for it describes something that “one does not take back.”53 How can Paul’s readers be certain that Israel is still considered beloved by God when regarded from the standpoint of His choice of them? Because God does not take back His promises—His gifts to Israel and His calling of Israel to be His chosen nation are irrevocable. [Chessman points out Eternal Life is also a gift]
As Moo states, this word “emphasizes the point that Paul made at the beginning of his argument: ‘The word of God has not failed’ (9:6a).... Israel still has a place in God’s plan because God is faithful.”54 In other words, “God has not abandoned the promises given to the fathers; [Chessman points out promises are made to believers too] they have not been nullified by Israel’s unbelief; God is still faithful.”​

Which was my point(s) in the now closed thread and this one too. God is faithful in all His promises (I'm fine with loosely calling a promise a "gift"), not just some gifts and/or promises and/or callings. God's either faithful or He's not.

Stepping back to the 50,000 foot view of the overall situation of Israel now for a moment. Let's assume someone wanted to be critical of God and claim God's gifts (and or promises) aren't actually irrevocable. One could theoretically point out Israel's chosen status as now having been 'revocked' by God as so-called 'proof' that it's not true that all of God's gifts/callings are irrevocable. [which BTW comes very close to views 1 or 2 in the article].

Paul's basically saying, hold on there fellow, you're flat out wrong. Even thoses promises made to Israel have NOT been revocked.

If God's still got a redemption plan in the works for Israel (and He does), then boy what a plan He's got working for those that actually believe "Jesus is Lord" and are promised Eternal Life as a result.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yisrael was promised to be elected, not just called.

The point is that Israel was elected, NOT called. A difference.

Yes, I showed you where Yisrael was given the gift of 'inheritance'. A promise of being a people with a land, and an instruction that brings forth life eternal, namely Messiah. This was the gift of mercy given Abraham, that though he be childless he would be the father of many nations, including THE nation that would bring forth the Messiah that would not only have 'his/our' people but the nations of the world.

While many things have been given to Israel by God, nowhere are they described as gifts. Which is my point.

A people more numerous than the stars and the sand, a land flowing with milk and honey, a Word (Torah) spoken from heaven an instruction that brings life, a Messiah that redeems us from sins (the life promised Yisrael through the Torah). What gifts has God given Yisrael?? Have you not read the bible? Cont....

Has god forsaken Yisrael? Will Messiah remove Jacobs sins? Why is Yisrael beloved in regards to being elected?

None of these questions deals with the gifts in Rom 11:29. And none of these these things are described as gifts.

Paul specifically mentioned "gifts" in his letter to the Romans way before he penned 11:29.