Poll re. good tattoo artist career for a Christian woman

[Maedchen]

Hi, please forgive me for appearing like a fun break, but I feel led by Jesus' Spirit to mention His Father's Word here.
Leviticus 19:28 reads, "You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks (!) on yourself: I am The Lord."

Of course, Jesus freed us from the Mosaic Law, but still I would prefer to keep my body the way my Creator made it.

Love, Rose

Hi, @Rose , thanks a lot for your comment.

The verse you quoted uses the phrase 'for the dead', seemingly putting it in the context of pagan necromancy, practised by the nations round about; also, the adjacent passage says that the corners of beards should not be trimmed: any preacher that shaves would have diffiiculty in trying to make others apply it, presumably. Interestingly, although the NKJV does use the word 'tattoo' here, the King James and the KJ21 do not. Then, as @forgiven , says, above, there is the question of Romans 14 Christian liberty. I guess someome with the motive of putting a Bible reference for witness purposes on his or her wrist would have a hard time figuring what exactly a preacher that shaves means if he tried to claim that his or her Christian liberty as per Romans 14 did not extent as far as Bible reference design on a wrist, for instance.

(I see the gender aspect of this doesn't seem to raise any particular concern with you, though.)

Thoughts?

Thanks again for your comment. Much appreciated. I guess this is quite a relevant thread these days, anyway.

Blessings.

Dear farouk,

first of all I want to apologize that I did not read the whole thread (to be honest, I read the first page and did not realize that more would follow, then started to reply right away).
Secondly, 'forgiven' pointed to a certainly relevant verse in Romans14, and I truly do not want to appear judging anybody for anything. Please understand that I am still used to think in some Watchtower categories. I only left 4 months ago, and usually we had very strict rules regarding our appearance. ( Inappropriate attire could have led to disciplining, not obeying resulted in shunning.)
Nevertheless, in my newly gained freedom of being able to think for myself and test my thoughts by means of the bible, I still agree that "we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2.Cor.5:20). As such, while witnessing to others about our Lord Jesus and the Kingdom of God, we are asked to "giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited" (2.Cor.6:3).
If I am talking to elderly people e.g. who are not used to tattoos, they might be distracted by any tattoo I would wear. This is why Paul might have wrote in Romans 14:13, "not to put an obstacle or stumbling block in a brother's way." This is a request for any gender.

I hope that I did not offend anyone. Everything I write I only refer to my own weakness and imperfection. I rejected Jesus once, and I try not to grieve Him again (although I know that I do this daily).

Love, Rose

 

[Maedchen]

BTW, the Hebrew original word used in Lev.19:28 is 'Keth-o-beth', translated literally as "mark branded on the skin".
That's maybe because my NASB bible used the word tattoo; that translation is very close to the original languages, It is said.

 

[farouk]

Dear farouk,

first of all I want to apologize that I did not read the whole thread (to be honest, I read the first page and did not realize that more would follow, then started to reply right away).
Secondly, 'forgiven' pointed to a certainly relevant verse in Romans14, and I truly do not want to appear judging anybody for anything. Please understand that I am still used to think in some Watchtower categories. I only left 4 months ago, and usually we had very strict rules regarding our appearance. ( Inappropriate attire could have led to disciplining, not obeying resulted on shunning.)
Nevertheless, in my newly gained freedom of being able to think for myself and test my thoughts by means of the bible, I still agree that "we are ambassadors for Christ, as though a god were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2.Cor.5:20). As such, while witnessing to others about our Lord Jesus and the Kingdom of God, we are asked to "giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited" (2.Cor.6:3).
If I am talking to elderly people e.g. who are not used to tattoos, they might be distracted by any tattoo I would wear. This is why Paul might have wrote in Romans 14:13, "not to put an obstacle or stumbling block in a brother's way." This is a request for any gender.

I hope that I did not offend anyone. Everything I write I only refer to my own weakness and imperfection. I rejected Jesus once, and I try not to grieve Him again (although zi know that I do this daily).

Love, Rose

@Rose :

No apology needed; yours was a great post, and exchanging ideas is what these threads are all about and most of the time the posts are constructive like yours.

Yes, ppl need to respect each other as a general principle; and if they truly feel their tattoos may offend, then cover them, certainly.

Re. age groups, I think you'll find that among older age groups, at least in some areas, the whole situation has become quite interesting and maybe significant in terms of what people are accustomed to.

For example, this is an interesting quote I saw; this from Michelle Gallo-Kohlas :

“’Most of my clients are in the older bracket,’ Gallo-Kohlas told The Huffington Post. ‘We see a lot of women in their sixties and seventies getting their first tattoos.’ Gallo-Kohlas recalls a woman in her sixties who got a tattoo because everyone in the golf clique at her gated community had one. It seemed like the thing to do in order to fit in.’ source: huffingtonpost.com

<O:p</O< font>

Actually I don't think doing it just because others do is necessarily a reason for it at all. But the quote is interesting, don't you think?

My attitude is not so much about whether the thing in itself has supposed, inherent value, but rather in what seems the compelling fact that, pragmatically, and in an imperfect world, faith based designs that some Christians go to the parlor for - Scripture ref. on a wrist, to name just an example - seem very effective in getting witness conversations going.

(Make some sort of sense, maybe?)

<FONT size=2>Blessings.

...

BTW, the Hebrew original word used in Lev.19:28 is 'Keth-o-beth', translated literally as "mark branded on the skin".
That's maybe because my NASB bible used the word tattoo; that translation is very close to the original languages, It is said.

Rose:

Fair point, linguistically, yes. In the nature of translation it's one thing to say that a term can be translated 'tattoo', although it doesn't necessarily follow that it must be always. (For example, there are the questions, what does 'tattoo' convey to the contemporary reader? and does it underline or diminish the context of necromancy?)

There's also context 'for the dead' and no trimming the corners of beards in the adjacent part. My earlier post #416 talks about it more.

Blessings.

<O:p</O<O:p</O< font>

 

[farouk]

Yes .. tats seem to be popular in my area.

PS:
@forgiven : Didn't comment before on this but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Anyway, you'll probably find that quite a number of the other Air Force wives connected with dh's base have had it done. Or at least will do eventually.

Blessings.

 

[forgiven]

Anyway, you'll probably find that quite a number of the other Air Force wives connected with dh's base have had it done. Or at least will do eventually.

It was actually the army he was in, we were at Fort Drum, NY above the Syracuse area. But yes alot of them did! And tats actually seem more popular back in my home town though where we are now..... hence the reason I feel it would be a great witness opportunity.

 

[forgiven]

I hope that I did not offend anyone. Everything I write I only refer to my own weakness and imperfection. I rejected Jesus once, and I try not to grieve Him again (although I know that I do this daily).

Hi Rose,
I can only speak for myself but I was in no way offended by your post. I believe that as well if my tattoos would offend some one then I would cover them. I already cover one from my misspent youth that I now regret as it does not represent Christ in any way but on the contrary it goes against my beliefs now. My point is that if I truly felt that I would offend some one or be a stumbling block then I would have no problem covering it. Such as when I visit my grandma, she dislikes tattoos in general so I cover them, it is not a big deal for me to do so. But on the other hand I know of how often I am asked about my other tats so I see that this could become a witnessing chance for me in the future. We as Christians may not always agree on things but I truly believe that is OK because at the end of the day we are still God's children! So once again I will state that I am in no way offended by your post, if you read through the thread there were many that did not agree and I hold no ill will towards any of them as well. Blessing Sis!

 

[farouk]

Anyway, you'll probably find that quite a number of the other Air Force wives connected with dh's base have had it done. Or at least will do eventually.

It was actually the army he was in, we were at Fort Drum, NY above the Syracuse area. But yes alot of them did! And tats actually seem more popular back in my home town though where we are now..... hence the reason I feel it would be a great witness opportunity.

@forgiven :

Oh near Syracuse, okay, yes, I know the area, too. We went to a big Christian bookstore in Syracuse, near the I-81, I seem to remember.

So a lot of them did, you say. Yes, well, just thinking a bit about it now, I can figure how, among others, patriotic or faith designs would be themes that for the military wives that you knew might have seemed to them to be especially strong reasons to have desired to become tattooed in the first place for, really.

And like I said, the fact that now in your home town they seem even more popular (and in the sunny South where more folk wear short sleeves, probably than us frozen northerners...) would kind of make the witness opportunity aspect even more compelling, I'm sure. Probably if you narrowed it down to the two Bible ref.s that you've thought most about over a period, and then just went ahead with one of them, then this might be the easiest way to go. You must know, anyway.

Blessings to you and yours.

 

[Maedchen]

I hope that I did not offend anyone. Everything I write I only refer to my own weakness and imperfection. I rejected Jesus once, and I try not to grieve Him again (although I know that I do this daily).

Hi Rose,
I can only speak for myself but I was in no way offended by your post. I believe that as well if my tattoos would offend some one then I would cover them. I already cover one from my misspent youth that I now regret as it does not represent Christ in any way but on the contrary it goes against my beliefs now. My point is that if I truly felt that I would offend some one or be a stumbling block then I would have no problem covering it. Such as when I visit my grandma, she dislikes tattoos in general so I cover them, it is not a big deal for me to do so. But on the other hand I know of how often I am asked about my other tats so I see that this could become a witnessing chance for me in the future. We as Christians may not always agree on things but I truly believe that is OK because at the end of the day we are still God's children! So once again I will state that I am in no way offended by your post, if you read through the thread there were many that did not agree and I hold no ill will towards any of them as well. Blessing Sis!

Aw, dear forgiven, thank you so much for your kind reply!
You wrote so lovingly that I feel as if you were sitting near me. Actually I saw some pretty women in my profession that wear quite cute tattoos. Little roses, or a heart; they look good on them. Maybe I am just a bit old fashioned.
On the other hand, if you say that the tattoos create good witness-opportunities, well then I will rethink my view. If Jesus likes it, I like it without doubt!
Much love to you, dear sister, and keep being so diligent for our beloved Lord!
Love, Rose

 

[forgiven]

Aw, dear forgiven, thank you so much for your kind reply!
You wrote so lovingly that I feel as if you were sitting near me. Actually I saw some pretty women in my profession that wear quite cute tattoos. Little roses, or a heart; they look good on them. Maybe I am just a bit old fashioned.
On the other hand, if you say that the tattoos create good witness-opportunities, well then I will rethink my view. If Jesus likes it, I like it without doubt!
Much love to you, dear sister, and keep being so diligent for our beloved Lord!
Love, Rose

You are much welcome! And yes I know some that are 'old fashioned' as you put it, my mom and grandma are just a few. As I said though it really doesn't bother me and I cover mine when in the presents of people that I might offend. I would never want something like that to come between me and others. And the 2 tattoos that I already have, well one I keep covered all the time as I mentioned earlier, but the other is a simple rose with my daughters name and I get asked about it all the time. Even though it is very simple in nature and pretty self explanitory so therefore my logic states that when I ever figure out what exact witness tattoo I get, I will be asked about it as well. That is simply my take on it. Thank you dear sister for having such an open mind on the subject!!
Blessings to you,
forgiven

 

[farouk]

@Rose :

Just reading your comments earlier, about how you thought your coworkers' flower and heart tattoos look good and cute, it might be interesting to learn that in North America, according to statistics, 59% of tattoo parlor clients now are female, with some areas reporting 70% female. So I guess your personal impression that it can indeed look good and cute for women to have it done, is a very widely shared impression. In my view all this is fine, but ultimately subjective, a matter of personal preference and taste, really.

What to me makes it more significant is the fact that, beyond the aspect of the gender distribition of parlor clients, faith related designs have been proven to be very effective conversation-starters, in terms of witness discussions. This to me is the more objective - and pragmatic - aspect.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=96530]forgiven[/MENTION]:

I saw your comment about your mom and grandma's views! it may be partly a generational thing, of course, but not necessarily (if you saw the quote a few posts back from a tattooist where most of her clients are in the upper age group).

You might find that if your mom and grandma realized that any faith based tattoo that you got, that you are now planning, was indeed leading you to the regular witness conversations that you want to have, they might alter their views a little. It can happen that way, anyhow, even if it doesn't work out this way in the case of your family.

Blessings.

 

[forgiven]

I saw your comment about your mom and grandma's views! it may be partly a generational thing, of course, but not necessarily (if you saw the quote a few posts back from a tattooist where most of her clients are in the upper age group).

You might find that if your mom and grandma realized that any faith based tattoo that you got, that you are now planning, was indeed leading you to the regular witness conversations that you want to have, they might alter their views a little. It can happen that way, anyhow, even if it doesn't work out this way in the case of your family.

Blessings.

Hmmmm...
Perhaps it could. I could always bring it up and see......... Thanks for suggesting it

 

[farouk]

Hmmmm...
Perhaps it could. I could always bring it up and see......... Thanks for suggesting it

[MENTION=96530]forgiven[/MENTION]:

Oh, YW...but actually the idea and practice of asking one's mom to come to the parlor as well to watch the tattooing being done, is probably more widespread than we realize. Like for example, you must know whether, if you told your mom that your daughter would be coming to the parlor and that you needed your mom to hold your daughter's hand while she saw her mommy going under the needle, then your mom might even prove to be willing to come (you never know) and might also appreciate both that you wanted to include her in the event but also eventually and gradually learn to appreciate your faith based witness motivation for it.

Just a thought, anyway; you must know what your mom's reactions are likely to be, but I think people will find it's not uncommon for generations of the same family to go together to the parlor to witness such an event.

Blessings.

 

[forgiven]

Oh, YW...but actually the idea and practice of asking one's mom to come to the parlor as well to watch the tattooing being done, is probably more widespread than we realize. Like for example, you must know whether, if you told your mom that your daughter would be coming to the parlor and that you needed your mom to hold your daughter's hand while she saw her mommy going under the needle, then your mom might even prove to be willing to come (you never know)

:biglol :toofunny I'm sorry but that WOULD NOT go over well!! Ahhhh you would just have to know my mom LOL!! My mom is not above using corporal punishment on her grown daughter and I very well feel like it might get used if I suggested that. {Just so you realize I am not laughing at you, simply at the picture running through my mind of me asking my mom that question} Perhaps if I explained a little better..... OK mom used to be very opposed to tattooing and piercing in a Christian sense until here recently {the reason are best left to a p.m.}, but now her views are more in a 'they are unlady like sense' and the fact that she dislikes needles to an extreme. She actually has a very week stomach on many issues including starts to gag when I change my contacts in front of her.... Bc she insist 'it simply isn't natural to touch your eye ball!!' So therefore again I will say I am not laughing at you, just the thought of me asking my mom to come watch a needle repeatedly poking my skin over and over again ends something like me getting popped in the back of the head! Once again you just have to know my mom. Please do not take offense, you would completely see where I'm coming from if you ever met my mom.
Now my grandma on the other hand, well she might actually consider it................

 

[farouk]

Oh, YW...but actually the idea and practice of asking one's mom to come to the parlor as well to watch the tattooing being done, is probably more widespread than we realize. Like for example, you must know whether, if you told your mom that your daughter would be coming to the parlor and that you needed your mom to hold your daughter's hand while she saw her mommy going under the needle, then your mom might even prove to be willing to come (you never know)

:biglol :toofunny I'm sorry but that WOULD NOT go over well!! Ahhhh you would just have to know my mom LOL!! My mom is not above using corporal punishment on her grown daughter and I very well feel like it might get used if I suggested that. {Just so you realize I am not laughing at you, simply at the picture running through my mind of me asking my mom that question} Perhaps if I explained a little better..... OK mom used to be very opposed to tattooing and piercing in a Christian sense until here recently {the reason are best left to a p.m.}, but now her views are more in a 'they are unlady like sense' and the fact that she dislikes needles to an extreme. She actually has a very week stomach on many issues including starts to gag when I change my contacts in front of her.... Bc she insist 'it simply isn't natural to touch your eye ball!!' So therefore again I will say I am not laughing at you, just the thought of me asking my mom to come watch a needle repeatedly poking my skin over and over again ends something like me getting popped in the back of the head! Once again you just have to know my mom. Please do not take offense, you would completely see where I'm coming from if you ever met my mom.
Now my grandma on the other hand, well she might actually consider it................

[MENTION=96530]forgiven[/MENTION]:

Oh well, ; maybe your grandma (and your daughter, too) are a bit tougher to be able to face watching you having it done...

Anyway, for the most part, with all the tattooing that happens, ladies are constantly proving their toughness, I reckon.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

.. if you say that the tattoos create good witness-opportunities, well then I will rethink my view.

PS: [MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]:

Re. your comment, above, to [MENTION=96530]forgiven[/MENTION], the matter of motive is significant, isn't it?
Like, the person may be convicted about doing it to honor the Lord. Blessings.

 

[farouk]

I find it sad and also totally stupid the amount of people who have tattoos of a cross because it 'suits', not because they know or even care about the meaning.

I know a few guys, probably 4-5 who have a cross tattoo and they not even interested in Jesus yet happy to have it tattooed on there arms. Maybe one day they will wake up and understand what it really means and how powerful it is and how it can acturaly save them forever and not just for show.

[MENTION=94669]kiwidan[/MENTION]:

Yes, a pity if there is no testimony to go with it, right?

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Yes, a pity if there is no testimony to go with it, right?

But the lord is always one step ahead, as these men are wearing his sacrifice with no honour, they are also spreading the word of Jesus and dont even know it, because the lord is so smart in everything he does.

kiwidan:

Always better to be able to back up a faith based design with a word of testimony, though, of course. This is why some Christians are motivated to getting them.

I think more broadly the whole thing has come full circle, to some extent. Like for instance, if a young man got a tattoo, it might once have been seen as a tough guy thing. But now, the 18 year old young man that goes to the parlor for his b-day (as is so often the custom) may well have a sister and mom who are already tattooed.

While surrounding assumptions and custons may vary and develop, it's the enduring value of a clear testimony that is the really important aspect, right?

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

right?

What is a testimony? or a word with testimony?

Do you mean i need evidence to back up what im saying with solid a solid fact?

kiwidan:

I'm simply referring to what you said, when you mentioned that some ppl get apparently faith based tattoos without being able to testify of what their faith means to them.

I think you agreed that is is regrettable, if they can't, and treat it as just a design and nothing more.

However, some young people and older too feel very strongly about wanting to express this medium of witness in this way, right?

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

.. 'they are unlady like sense' and the fact that she dislikes needles to an extreme. ..
a needle repeatedly poking my skin over and over again ..

@forgiven :

Oh well. But anyway I don't think that objectively it can be said that's it's inherently 'unlady like'. I think it's fair to say that women are just as capable as men of getting thoroughly accustomed to a needle going in hundreds of times. (After all, 59% of parlor clients in North America are female; some areas apparently report 70%.) And even if a woman doesn't particularly like the needle going in with the ink hundreds of times, she might still have a very strong motivation to want the needle to inject the ink if it's, for example, for an effective, witness design, right?

So for a Christian design, it's not just about 'liking' or 'not liking' the needle going in over and over, it's about understanding and respecting the motive, right?

Blessings.