Pre-trib/Mid-trib/Post-trib/Pre-wrath

[Godfirst633]

Just curious to get different opinions regarding this matter. I have been raised pre-trib and I would say a majority of the church is pre-trib. However, after much study and questioning in my heart, I now believe post tribulation. Any thoughts?

 

[Bick]

Just curious to get different opinions regarding this matter. I have been raised pre-trib and I would say a majority of the church is pre-trib. However, after much study and questioning in my heart, I now believe post tribulation. Any thoughts?

MY COMMENTS:
Hi Godfirst633. I can give you my understanding based upon the best translations.

As you may know, Daniel's 70th week is generally referred to as 'the tribulation.' If you are familiar with Daniel, you must be aware that he is speaking of the times of terrible affliction on his people, Israel.

And the book of Revelation will be shown to be concerned with Israel, the Nations and the Earth.
Not the body of Christ. I'm convinced of this.

Believers today (and from the time of Paul) are part of the body of Christ. If you will read and study Ephesians and Colossians particularly, you will see that our future is in the heavenlies, not on the earth.

We are assured that the dead in Christ will be raised and we, which are alive at the presence of the Lord, will both be changed having spiritual bodies--fit for the heavens. Then, both at the same time will meet the Lord in the air, and thus ever be with the Lord. (1 Cor. 15:51-56 and 1 Thes. 4:13-18).

Perhaps, the confusing scriptures are in 2 Thes. 2:1-8. Paul is assuring the Thessalonian Church that the 'day of the Lord' has not happened. 'The day of the Lord' in my opinion, is not just one 24 hour period, but is a long period of time starting with the agreement of the 'man of sin' or, 'the anti-christ', with Israel to allow them to renew their sacrifices and offerings in a rebuilt temple.

While in verse 2:3, the word 'apostasy' is used in most versions, it is actually a tranlsiteration of the word in Greek, "apostasia", which means "departure." This is important. because Paul is asking them, "for the sake of the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to Him, that you be not quickly shaken from your mind" (CV),..... that the day of the Lord is present."

Going on: "No one should be deluding you by any method, for, should not the departure (apostasia--Gk) be coming first and the man of lawlessness be unveiled..."

In conclusion why the church body of Christ will be taken up to glory before the 'tribulation':

because we, the body of Christ have our destiny in the heavens (not on earth);

because we are assured that we are saved from wrath (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thes. 1:10 and 5:9), and the tribulation is certainly a time of God's wrath (It is true, that it occurs the last half of the seven years);
because we will be caught up to heaven to meet the Lord in the air; because Paul assures the Thessalonian Church (and us) that the departure should come first, and then the man of lawlessness be unveiled.

Blessings to you,

 

[Cyberseeker]

The entire pre-trib senario is built on the how you interpret Daniel chapter nine. If the popular interpretation of this passage is flawed then it is post trib. If the popular interpretation of this passage is correct then it is pre trib.

Simple as that. Forget all other arguments. They are insignificant in comparison. Understand Daniel and all other prophecy will fall into place.

Cyber

 

[Vic C.]

Most here know I take a more historical pre millennial approach, a historicist view. But... if I were to choose one futuristic view, it would be Pre Wrath for sure. It narrows down the most relevant scriptures to a handful of key verses and passages. It also avoids some snags that dispensational views cause.

 

[Paidion]

While in verse 2:3, the word 'apostasy' is used in most versions, it is actually a tranlsiteration of the word in Greek, "apostasia", which means "departure."

What basis do you have for affirming that the Greek word ἀÀοÃĀαÃια means "departure". The RSV, NRSV, and NIV translate it as "rebellion" , while Rotherham translates the word as "revolt".

Abbot-Smith's Manual Lexicon of the New Testament states that the word means "defection, aspostasy, revolt".

In the Greek Septuagint translation of the OT into Greek, ἀÀοÃĀαÃια is used in several passages. Here are two of them:

...if we have transgressed before the Lord by apostasy, let him not deliver us this day.
Joshua 22:22

Did the Israelites transgress before the Lord because of rebelllion or revolt? Or did they transgress because of "departure". In one sense revolt against a leader is departure from that leader, but ἀÀοÃĀαÃια does not mean simple departure as, for example, departing from a port in a ship.

...and all the vessels which king Achaz polluted in his reign, in his apostasy, we have prepared and purified: behold, they are before the altar of the Lord. II Chronicles 29:19

Did the vessels need to be purified because of King Achaz's revolt? Or because of his making a departure, of his going somewhere?

As I see it, pre-tribs believe the Greek word to mean "departure" on no other basis than their desire to interpret Paul as saying that the day of the Lord will not come until believers have "made their departure" via rapture to meet Him in the air. Paul actually takes the post-trib position by saying that the rebellion against all legitimate government, that is, the rebellion of Antichrist, must come first before the day of the Lord can come..

 

[Cyberseeker]

Most here know I take a more historical pre millennial approach, a historicist view. But... if I were to choose one futuristic view, it would be Pre Wrath for sure. It narrows down the most relevant scriptures to a handful of key verses and passages. It also avoids some snags that dispensational views cause.

Up till a year ago I would have said something almost identical. I still think historicism is the way to go. :smt023

As for pre-trib, it has no biblical foundation. Zilch. Daniels 70 weeks is about atonement - not trib. And the middle of the 70th week is the cross.