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when the church is called out-----rapture

jerry63935 said:
after the Church is called out the antichrist will come to power...
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Since the church, being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, is caught up to meet Jesus in the air when He returns, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, then why would there be any need of the last antichrist being the beast and it's false prophet. Why would there be the need of the seven trumpets and seven vial judgements or even the 3 1/2 year reign of the son of perdition and the mark of this beast. Jesus only returns one time and at that time the door of God's salvation will be closed forever with no one getting a second chance.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 
for_his_glory said:
Jesus only returns one time
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then hope your on the first load but you are correct he takes us out by Rapture *** i do hope that is one word that is allowed . some people are not mature enough to use that word...... he takes us out then he returns as judge . the wrath of God is poured out on those left behind.. :bible :thumbsup
 
jerry63935 said:
symbolism my friend symbolism he was took out by way of the ark
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Not symbolism.

The first audience is Jewish and that culture uses alot of different ways on what they call poetry and symbolism

Futurists take the sky rolling up as a nuke bomb .the sky didn't roll up when Assyria was judged literally .
The stars of heaven didn't fight Sisera literally .

Yet with Noah that was an ark of safety where Noah used him to replenish the earth and he never have seen water like that had to trust God .

The context is when the judgment comes no saint will be touched by it but not removed ,raised into immortally at the Return .

Jesus comes twice ?

Where does he say I will return two more times ?
 
jerry63935 said:
thinking gives me a headache honestly even though we disagree ..i think we have more things in common than we realize . you give a interesting discussion and with you . i dont mind it i like the pan millennium theory live your life for Christ it will all pan out
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My mind I have time to ponder while walking between meters ,history and what I will photo or research .

I spent twenty minutes before church photographing an old restaurant or two ,a church ,old apts and tourist court being razed.i post those and recite the history before I do .

Ie the royal park inn being built by tremble who was an Methodist elder ,he designed alot locally ,the inns story and the sailors who stayed there,the two men who subdivided the lots and named it the royal palm .

The history of the old restaurant,cobbled to be by one of the developers being on an old homestead that includes where I start my day .
 
jerry63935 said:
i never said that he takes us out then he returns

you have yours i have mine
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It's logically implied

We that are alive at his coming will meet him in the air.

The dead in Christ shall rise first then the saints that are alive .

He isn't coming to remove the saints ?

Sounds like he isn't but to raise them and then the judgment.
 
jerry63935 said:
ok then stay here i a m going call me gone
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You know that you know .

I would say while I don't want to suffer but persecution brings fruits for God ,seldom is it prosperity .

In war the church I had was the best ,no distractions of lunch after church or work .death could be while you are singing .

We in the west do church ,we seldom if it all have church and are the church .

I wouldn't say I will not be afraid of Satan only that missionaries who I know have been beaten have more faith then most American pastors .
 
jasonc said:
You know that you know .

I would say while I don't want to suffer but persecution brings fruits for God ,seldom is it prosperity .

In war the church I had was the best ,no distractions of lunch after church or work .death could be while you are singing .

We in the west do church ,we seldom if it all have church and are the church .

I wouldn't say I will not be afraid of Satan only that missionaries who I know have been beaten have more faith then most American pastors .
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Americans do not know persecutions
 
jerry63935 said:
i am not going back in forth over this. i know some who hold to this.. but i dont hold to this . were not in the great tribulation yet
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That's fine with me, but when you make a thread like this then you need to know many will disagree with each other, but yet hopefully can share our understandings.
 
jerry63935 said:
we know beyond a shadow of doubt that Christ can take the Church out at any time..

we have 3 views as per period of events it will happen

pre trib before the great tribulation

mid trib middle of it 3 1/2 years

tribulation the end of 7 years

this post is NOT bout your personal view

at the Church i pastor we are studying Rev on friday night . as we hit rev 4 most feel the Church is no longer here. so last night we looked at the 3 views pre mid or trib . a question was asked is it that important for any of these views as it will take place exactly like God intends for it to. which holds a lot of truth i m p o it is good to study and have a view of when . so often it creates a back draft of argument .

so to you does it really matter ? please No band wagon jumping promoting and of the 3 views.. a yes or no with a simple explanation . we will see how far this goes or even if it does...
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I assume you believe the beast who makes war with the saints is with latecomers?
There is a harvest noted in the NT but its after the weeds are pulled up.

jerry63935 said:
we know beyond a shadow of doubt that Christ can take the Church out at any time..

we have 3 views as per period of events it will happen

pre trib before the great tribulation

mid trib middle of it 3 1/2 years

tribulation the end of 7 years

this post is NOT bout your personal view

at the Church i pastor we are studying Rev on friday night . as we hit rev 4 most feel the Church is no longer here. so last night we looked at the 3 views pre mid or trib . a question was asked is it that important for any of these views as it will take place exactly like God intends for it to. which holds a lot of truth i m p o it is good to study and have a view of when . so often it creates a back draft of argument .

so to you does it really matter ? please No band wagon jumping promoting and of the 3 views.. a yes or no with a simple explanation . we will see how far this goes or even if it does...
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Shouldn't the man of lawless be revealed first?
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

FYI - I am premil post trib
 
jerry63935 said:
no actually the o.p waswhen christ returns pre mid or after trib does it really matter
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I think it matters to know truth. If pretrib happens that would be great, but if it doesn't happen then what is wrong in preparing others of those things that must come first before Christ returns. What is going to happen to those pretribber who find themselves before the son of perdition, will they deny Christ thinking it was all a lie and take this mark of the beast as he deceives them with lying signs and wonders claiming he is God.
 
for_his_glory said:
What is going to happen to those pretribber who find themselves before the son of perdition, will they deny Christ thinking it was all a lie and take this mark of the beast as he deceives them with lying signs and wonders claiming he is God
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see this is why i am not interested in discussing this with You. its your attitude. if that is what you would teach in a class. i would drop out in a heart beat. do You think your the only one who Knows the truth from a lie?
the Bible tells us we have a unction that we may know all things. called DISCERNMENT .the Bible says he will keep us from the hour of temptation

Revelation 3:10​


“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

amazing and they made you admin :eek2 i take offense at the word pretribbers .i dont really care how you believe i have made that clear from o.p
 
jerry63935 said:
see this is why i am not interested in discussing this with You. its your attitude.
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What attitude is there in giving someone a questionable scenario to think about!!!

I've given all I can in this thread so time to move on. You have a good evening.
 
jerry63935 said:
see this is why i am not interested in discussing this with You. its your attitude. if that is what you would teach in a class. i would drop out in a heart beat. do You think your the only one who Knows the truth from a lie?
the Bible tells us we have a unction that we may know all things. called DISCERNMENT .the Bible says he will keep us from the hour of temptation

Revelation 3:10​


“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

amazing and they made you admin :eek2 i take offense at the word pretribbers .i dont really care how you believe i have made that clear from o.p
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King Josiah was made a similar promise. How was that fulfilled?
 
jerry63935 said:
man fails every time i have no time for discussions like this
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You started this thread. Josiah pleased God. God told him he wouldn't see all the destruction God was planning to inflict on Israel because of their disobedience. A similar promise that Jesus made in Rev 3:10. Josiah was later killed in battle. He was kept from seeing the destruction coming on Israel as God promised. Likewise Rev 3:10 doesn't mean or suggest a pretribulation rapture. It suggests fulfillment in the same manner as Josiah, that is escape from this world before the hour of trial through the death of the body.

If you are seeking wisdom then you should see Rev 11 as a sign that can't be mistaken. 1260 days as I read. The beast that overpowers the two witnesses makes war against the saints.

That beast is destroyed by a coming of the Lord.
The bowl judgments are the last of Gods wrath.

Rev 16:15
“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.
 
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