Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?

[reba]

Exactly! People construct a fantastic idea of a 'The Great Tribulation' in their mind and then try to bend scripture to support that idea. I don't think they are being disingenuous, but merely deluded by a self centered outlook on eschatology.

I have found most often they read it in a book some place and get all giddy like they have THE key and just can't let go of their truth no matter what God says.

God is the authority .

Nuff of beating my head against the wall...

and back to the OP

 

[Sam21]

You explained what you want the Word to say it does not. Your explanation doesn't matter a hill of beans



Your above statement is just not so. No He did not you take it to mean that but He did not say it.

Did Jesus say this,"but immediately after THE TRIBULATION"(Matt24:29). This is a quote right out of the bible...so are you saying that what Jesus says does not matter to you more than a hill of beans because it is not what you like?

 

[reba]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Yup Jesus said the above.

Odd i dont see THE GREAT TRIBULATION there like you said He said....


This is not your thread nor is it mine... i will not be part of hijacking Storms thread any longer.

Sam why dont you just write out your version of the scripture and start your own thread.

 

[Sam21]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Yup Jesus said the above.

Odd i dont see THE GREAT TRIBULATION there like you said He said....


This is not your thread nor is it mine... i will not be part of hijacking Storms thread any longer.

Sam why dont you just write out your version of the scripture and start your own thread.

Just read Matt 24 and believe what you read,that is my version. Just a question,if you are into truth why the deceit,we both know that the tribulation just described by Jesus as THE TRIBULATION was the same tribulation Jesus had just called the GREAT TRIBULATION,so why the dodging and ducking and hiding? Truth does not have to resort to deception and manipulation.

 

[warhorse]

Only one ambiguous quote from Iraenaeus some 150 years after the fact forms the basis for believing that Revelation was written in 96 AD.

All the other evidence - both in the book of Revelation itself - and in other passages of the NT point to a mid-to-late 60's writing.

Might pay to Google that, too.

By the way, that verse in your signature?


You do know Paul was writing his letters to the Galatians, Colossians, and in part, to the Corinthians because these churches were beginning to abandon the gospel he preached to them.

It was all part of that first century "falling away" thing Christ predicted.

So how do you fit a thousand year fullfillment into 5 or 6 years. your version of shortly. You do know that christian was a 9 letter word for cat food for the next 300 or so years right, and through all that christianity flourished as it always does in tribulation. No sir the falling away began with dispy as the church gradually became asphixiated with the concept of immenance and pre-trib, sitting on their hands, on cushioned pews, in air conditioned rooms, Having there ears massaged with pleasant sayings.
Oh and 2 thessalonians 2v1 indicates that the false teaching they were subjected too was that christ had already returned and they feared they had missed it.

2 thess 2v1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In the light of scripture your position makes no sense.why would paul send this to the thess if the judgment was on jerusalam.

2 thess 1v4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day

 

[Sinthesis]

You do know that christian was a 9 letter word for cat food

:rolling:rolling:rollinging

 

[Stormcrow]

Been out of the loop all day traveling from one end of the country to the other, which is why I haven't been able to respond.

Just to make things clear, Jesus did say there would be "A great tribulation" before His coming, but that great tribulation was meant for Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with us.

{20} "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. {22} because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. {23} "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; {24} and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:20-24 (NASB)

This is the same desolation Christ told them would befall Jerusalem in Matthew 23:

{37} "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. {38} "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! Matthew 23:37-38 (NASB)

Now, where most people get confused is the "coming" part of the Olivet Discourse and what they need to understand that what He meant by His coming is not how people today understand it!

He was coming in judgment upon those who pierced Him and to reward those who remained true to God's Word: His elect, the remnant of Israel God has always saved through times of judgment. You can find them in Revelation 7: they are the 12,000 from every tribe of Israel.

Now, if the following passage doesn't convince people here to adjust their thinking about His coming, then there's simply nothing left to write:

{29} Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; {30} as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. {31} "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. {32} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. {33} "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. {34} "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; {35} for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth [land,YLT].

{36} "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:29-36 (NASB)

Let me reiterate verse 35 from Young's Literal Translation:

{35} for as a snare it shall come on all those dwelling on the face of all the land, Luke 21:35 (YLT)

What land? The land of Israel.

This all happened in 70 AD. But don't take my word for it, take Jesus at His word.

(I wonder where those crazy apostles got the idea He was coming back in their lifetime?)

 

[jasoncran]

i'm sure the thessolians in paul day were worried over that jewish judgment. all they had to do was NOT go there.

 

[n2thelight]

Stormcrow

Just to make things clear, Jesus did say there would be "A great tribulation" before His coming, but that great tribulation was meant for Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with us.

Question,what in the Word, prophecy wise, does have to do with us?

 

[Lehigh3]

Question,what in the Word, prophecy wise, does have to do with us?

Nothing! It was all fulfilled. The gospel age came - His kingdom - & never ends. The end of the Jewish age is what Jesus came to mediate to the new covenant.
All fulfilled in AD70 with the outward "signs of Judaism" ending.

 

[Stormcrow]

i'm sure the thessolians in paul day were worried over that jewish judgment. all they had to do was NOT go there.

No. What they were worried about was the persecution they were facing from both Jerusalem and Rome!

And yes, not going there would have been a way to avoid God's wrath, as Jesus told His disciples!

It appears we have a choice: take Jesus at His word, or continue to defend a doctrine without merit.

I choose the former.

 

[Stormcrow]

Question,what in the Word, prophecy wise, does have to do with us?

I don't know. I haven't studied them all as much as I have this one regarding these two distinct tribulations.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Question,what in the Word, prophecy wise, does have to do with us?

1. John 5
24 ‘I tell you the truth; He who hears what I say and believes in the One that sent me will have life in the age… he won’t come into the judgment, for he has crossed over from out of the death and come into the life!’
25 ‘I also truthfully say that the time is coming … when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who listen will live. 26 For, just as the Father has life in Himself, He has also given the Son life in himself, 27 and authorized him to do judging. This is because he is the Son of Man.
28 ‘Don’t be surprised at this, because the hour is coming when everyone in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out; those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced what is foul to a resurrection of judgment.

2. Acts 24
14 But I do admit to this: That which they’re calling a sect, is nothing more than the way that I’ve been worshiping the God of my fathers.
‘Why, I believe everything that is written in the Law and in the Prophets. 15 And I have this hope in God (which they also share) that there’s going to be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous.

3. Revelation 21 & 22

 

[jasoncran]

No. What they were worried about was the persecution they were facing from both Jerusalem and Rome!

And yes, not going there would have been a way to avoid God's wrath, as Jesus told His disciples!

It appears we have a choice: take Jesus at His word, or continue to defend a doctrine without merit.

I choose the former.

but the problem here is that YOU and reba and other preterists say take him at his word right?

well then if i was the apostles and jesus said Go ye unto the world and make ye disciples, i would think the roman empire and also far east. the new world wasnt known nor much on africa.

being consistence. for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believeth on him shall not die..

so does that world only mean the definition i just said? world can only mean what the original audience said? right?

 

[reba]

Ya lost me Jason please try again?


I think i understand now...

 

[jasoncran]

Ya lost me Jason please try again?

if world mean all the world in those contexts then how can all men only mean the jews in jerusalem? has God judged the world and removed the tares from the wheat yet? stormcrow implies that has happened. i asked clearly on this and i saw a logicall fallacy. shortly is either is always short or it cant be depending on the context.

solo scriptura demands that the context i stated a few pages ago means that behold i come quickly to reward all men means that he comes to judge all men of the world as the seas and hell and hades open up to the judgment.

 

[reba]

well then if i was the apostles and jesus said Go ye unto the world and make ye disciples, i would think the roman empire and also far east. the new world wasnt known nor much on africa.

Yup the world as the guys knew it to be

being consistence. for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believeth on him shall not die..

Yup the world as God knows it to be

 

[jasoncran]

Yup the world as the guys knew it to be



Yup the world as God knows it to be

so then on the later wouldnt logic dictate that all men means all men of the earth on the FINAL judgment??

me thinks so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[reba]

if world mean all the world in those contexts then how can all men only mean the jews in jerusalem? has God judged the world and removed the tares from the wheat yet? stormcrow implies that has happened. i asked clearly on this and i saw a logicall fallacy. shortly is either is always short or it cant be depending on the context.

I just dont know. Clearing up 'Jerusalem' 70 ad era was surly some kind of separation, judgment. His death changed lots of stuff.

 

[reba]

so then on the later wouldnt logic dictate that all men means all men of the earth on the FINAL judgment??

me thinks so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lost me again.

Jason i dont claim to be preterist nor a futurist i dont claim post mid or pre. I am just struggling to see what the Words says. I have not yet read a 'view' that answers all the questions...some views ask more question then they answer