H
Hitch
Guest
A baptized copout is wet PGE
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs?
- Thread starter Stormcrow
- Start date
Christ will return when the Father says so, however the NT makes it appear that Jesus would probably return at least within 100 years of the resurrection, though no date was given.
The nice thing about you is that I have no idea what you are trying to say most of the time.
I see nothing in all the arguments that have been posted here to insinuate a valid 1st century return was called for. God is the author of the bible, and it is his perspective we should be seeking to interprite scripture, not mans and certainly not that of a generation that could not recognise the son of God when he was standing in front of them.
The hole concept of understanding scripture according to its own time frame is fataly flawed. It willfully ignores 2k years of hindsight.
God said that the life of a man is but a vapor. And a day is like a thousand years
JAMES 4
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a VAPOUR, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
2 PETER 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a THOUSAND years, and a THOUSAND years as one day.
Given that perspective how long does soon mean to God. Seems to me to be well outside the first century.
The (This generation) statement that is so commonly thrown around these posts is done so, out of context. Placed back in its context we see that it is in referance to the fig tree parable and the season of summer, When young trees stretch forth there leaves or (young nations stretch forth there borders).
All of them seem to forget luke 21v24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Jews were not even lead away into all nations untill after 70 ad And still have not regained full control of Jerusalam, that is part of what we see happening this very day.
Dont let the masses badger you into foolish compromises. There is simply no scriptural support for there positions.
Well they just give Jesus a pass, despit thousands of years of literal prophacy fullfillment they will just except a spiritual fullfillment, and live on in endless denial presuming this world of toil and sin is the best that God could produce.
What does this have to do with Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or Two Tribs
jasoncran
Member
i made the above statement to which he was refering too. i read that a few days ago. the tribulation is part of these trib doctrines. in context that statment means jesus comes to JUDGE men as its said right after behold i come quickly and let he that is righteous be righteous.
i believe that his statment is on topic.
Sometimes I have to go back to my original experience,I simply asked God what He wanted me to do and I was immediately engulfed in intense love and God was saying to my mind very clearly,"you must accept My Son as your Saviour". The God that came to me and is still with me taught me at an early age to be totally truthful with the bible regardless. Because of that I try not to have a position but to simply be as honest as possible with what I read in context in the bible. To me the bible does appear to be saying that the return of Christ was soon,yet 1900 years does seem to be a very long soon,however I know that Christ has not yet returned and for me today "soon" really does mean soon.
Soon according to who,s definition of time.
Psalms 90v1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Last edited by a moderator:
H
Hitch
Guest
How long was Christ in the grave?
H
Hitch
Guest
Nonsense.
Stormcrow
Member
Did you miss the corollary verse in Revelation that explains what this means?
Try this:
{1} Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. {2} "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations [ethnos: Gentiles]; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. Revelation 11:1-2 (NASB)
Clearly, the time of the fulfillment of the Gentiles mentioned in Luke 21 is the forty-two months of Rev. 11:2!
One more thing:
If Revelation were written in 96 AD, why is the angel telling John to measure the Temple in Revelation 11? The temple didn't exist in 96 AD and there is NO PASSAGE IN THE BIBLE that points to a third Temple in Jerusalem! None!
The only way to harmonize the futurist view with the New Testament is to throw out 90% of it and take what's left out of context!
Stormcrow
Member
I've used this illustration before, but it seems fitting to repeat here:
It's 50 AD. A man is working out in the fields. His wife sends their son to tell him dinner will be ready soon. Does he think she means dinner will be ready within the next few minutes, or sometime after the next 2000 years?
What would it mean to you?
If I tell you I'm going to pay you soon, do you expect payment within days or sometime after the next 2,000 years?
Soon means soon, then and now. Post-modern relativism does not good interpretation make.
Stormcrow
Member
So the apostles intended to deceive their readers with "appearances"???
2No date was given because none was needed! What part of the words "soon" and "near" need to be specified by a given date???
They were given the signs to look for and they were told these events would unfold soon thereafter! No date was given PRECISELY BECAUSE Christ said only the father knew!!!
Wow!!! Is this really that hard to grasp????? :o
Stormcrow
Member
The problem is that we have a different understanding of what Christ's coming means than did the apostles. Because of Darby and Scofield, et al. we have this doctrine of the rapture that says Christ's return will be to sweep His church up into the air at some point either before, in the middle, or after "THE GREAT TRIBULATION", in which that end-time boogeyman "THE ANTICHRIST", the physical incarnation of Satan Himself, will rise to power and bring hell on earth with Him.
This same view holds that - luckily for us in the church - this "ANTICHRIST" will come only to afflict the Jews.
This view is spun - quite literally - from the following verses:
Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:21, 31, I Thessalonians 4:16-18, and Revelation 4:1-2, where John being called into heaven is a metaphor for the church being raptured.
That's pretty much the extent of biblical scholarship that goes into the futurist view, and the people that hold to it appear incapable of little more than repeating these verses (plus maybe one or two others I missed) whenever the subject comes up.
The problem lies with our understanding of what Christ's "coming in the clouds" really means. The phrase has a history and meaning to the Jews that goes all the way back to the Old Testament, and that's where we need to go to understand it.
God's presence in the Old Testament is shrouded by clouds and smoke. In the first verse above, He appears in the cloud to lead them by day. However, at other times when he comes to the people in judgment, His coming is also attended by clouds or smoke:
This post is getting long, but hopefully you get the idea: Christ's "coming on the clouds with great power and glory" in Matthew is consistent with the imagery of God's glorious presence shrouded by clouds and smoke in the Old Testament.
The significant difference is that in the OT, God's presence was shrouded to protect the people. In the NT, Christ's coming is visible for all the tribes of the land, so that they would know Him whom they crucified and tremble at His return in judgment upon them.
Peace. Out.
Last edited by a moderator:
