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Pre-Trib Rapture

It states in 1 corinthians 15;52. "In a moment, in the twinkeling of an eye, at the last trump, we will be changed". This is the 7th trumpet when Jesus sets foot on monut zion, this is when I believe the rapture will happen.
 
Man-After-God said:
What is your Opinion on this? Does scripture state anything concerning this or not? Why or Why not?

Just looking for answers.....:eeeekkk


I am Of the opinion that their is a Pre-Trib Rapture, but would like to hear others opinions and facts....
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I have never worried about the timing of the rapture, not even once. I'm covered. That's good enough for me. Pre, mid, post, whenever. I am His. He is mine.
 
wincell said:
I have never worried about the timing of the rapture, not even once. I'm covered. That's good enough for me. Pre, mid, post, whenever. I am His. He is mine.
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Good for you because when I was growing up it was a lot sooner than it is now.
 
Dear Sister reba, I am entering into this thread subsequent to all that has been discussed without reading it all, and if I am just rehashing old news please just delete this reply.

reba said:
Any one have a Bible verse or passage that talks about a 7 year Great Tribulation?
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In Revelation 1:1 we read: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass . . ." These things will Come to pass from when?

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . . ." What is the Lord's day? Read all you can of the "Day of the Lord" and we read in 1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Another is "In that day." Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

How do we come up with seven years of tribulation? Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

What makes this week of Daniel seven years? Ezekiel 4:6 . . . I have appointed thee each day for a year, but just when is this viewpoint in scripture?

From that future Lord's day John is told in Revelation 1:9, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter." John does describe a backwards look at things past, and things which are now from that future time, but now let's look at things hereafter. Revelation 4:1 "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

I'll leave it at this for the time being lest I head into too many directions at once.
 
Eugene said:
Dear Sister reba, I am entering into this thread subsequent to all that has been discussed without reading it all, and if I am just rehashing old news please just delete this reply.



In Revelation 1:1 we read: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass . . ." These things will Come to pass from when?

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day . . ." What is the Lord's day? Read all you can of the "Day of the Lord" and we read in 1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Another is "In that day." Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

How do we come up with seven years of tribulation? Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

What makes this week of Daniel seven years? Ezekiel 4:6 . . . I have appointed thee each day for a year, but just when is this viewpoint in scripture?

From that future Lord's day John is told in Revelation 1:9, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter." John does describe a backwards look at things past, and things which are now from that future time, but now let's look at things hereafter. Revelation 4:1 "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

I'll leave it at this for the time being lest I head into too many directions at once.
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So John says hereafter and that naturally refers to Dan's prophecy and somehow proves that a multi-millennial GAP exist between week 69-70?

Well thats no more bizzar than most other contortions futurism requires.

:wave
 
Hitch said:
So John says hereafter and that naturally refers to Dan's prophecy and somehow proves that a multi-millennial GAP exist between week 69-70?

Well thats no more bizzar than most other contortions futurism requires.

:wave
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Good morning Hitch. I do not adhere to the thought of a seventieth week of Daniel as I believe that four hundred and ninety years continued right on after the time God raised Jesus up in Acts 2:32, and all that believed had all things common according to Acts 2:44 which lasted up to the stoning of Stephen, and the conversion of Paul.

I understand that you are Preterist and so will not address that except to say I believe there is a separation between Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27; verse twenty-six being those events of AD 70. If we must have a tag to identify that time I would go along with something such as "Another week, or a last week" of Daniel. Jacob's trouble of Jeremiah 30:7, and as Daniel 12:1 describes a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. In other words, if you Jews, and that is what Daniel was interested in, think you've been through the wringer, you ain't see nothing yet.
 
How do we come up with seven years of tribulation? Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
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How do we come up with seven years of tribulation?
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Eugene To my way of thinking your line here makes my point.. Man has come up with '7 years of tribulation' there is no passage that speaks of it...

Note: i am not saying there is not tribulation...

Eugene thank you for your attitude here it is much appreciated .
 
I don't think there will be a full 7 years tribulation but 3 1/2 years. The first half of the last 7 years I think will be peaceful. Revelation 11;3 talks about the 2 witnesses prophecying for 1260 days, I believe this is the first 1/2. In Revelation 13;5 is where it says speaks of the antichrist having authority for 42 months, this is the great tribulation.
 
Eugene said:
Good morning Hitch. I do not adhere to the thought of a seventieth week of Daniel as I believe that four hundred and ninety years continued right on after the time God raised Jesus up in Acts 2:32, and all that believed had all things common according to Acts 2:44 which lasted up to the stoning of Stephen, and the conversion of Paul.

I understand that you are Preterist and so will not address that except to say I believe there is a separation between Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27; verse twenty-six being those events of AD 70. If we must have a tag to identify that time I would go along with something such as "Another week, or a last week" of Daniel. Jacob's trouble of Jeremiah 30:7, and as Daniel 12:1 describes a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. In other words, if you Jews, and that is what Daniel was interested in, think you've been through the wringer, you ain't see nothing yet.
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Daniel 9:26 and Dan 9:27 are describing the same events, but from different angles as a form of emphasis. It's just like how an explosion in a "B" movie is shown (often in slow motion) from several different successive camera angles so the viewer gets the message to maximum effect. Nobody watches an action movie and wonders why several identical cars just blew up one after another, because we understand the rules of the medium.:twocents
 
reba said:
Eugene To my way of thinking your line here makes my point.. Man has come up with '7 years of tribulation' there is no passage that speaks of it...

Note: i am not saying there is not tribulation...
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Hi Reba. I'll now attempt to put together some measure of days. Below we read of 1290 days until the abomination is set up, and just what is that?

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. This is 3 1/2 years plus 30 days using the Jewish calendar.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Here this man of sin is attempting to take that holy place that only God has.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I will also ask you to consider Ezekiel 4:6, "I have appointed thee each day for a year." when we think of the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24. In your opinion, are there only 490 days or 490 years? We read in Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." These are all blessings to Israel that were complete in the 490 years.

1. He's going to finish the transgression.
2. He's going to make an end of sins.
3. He's going to make reconciliation for iniquity.
4. He's going to bring in everlasting righteousness.
5. He's going to seal up the vision.
6. He's going to seal up the prophesy.
7. He's going to anoint the most Holy.

I'll leave off here until we agree or agree to disagree. :)
 
Eugene said:
Good morning Hitch. I do not adhere to the thought of a seventieth week of Daniel as I believe that four hundred and ninety years continued right on after the time God raised Jesus up in Acts 2:32, and all that believed had all things common according to Acts 2:44 which lasted up to the stoning of Stephen, and the conversion of Paul.

I understand that you are Preterist and so will not address that except to say I believe there is a separation between Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27; verse twenty-six being those events of AD 70. If we must have a tag to identify that time I would go along with something such as "Another week, or a last week" of Daniel. Jacob's trouble of Jeremiah 30:7, and as Daniel 12:1 describes a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. In other words, if you Jews, and that is what Daniel was interested in, think you've been through the wringer, you ain't see nothing yet.
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I cant tell whether you are undecided or terribly unclear.
 
Sinthesis said:
Daniel 9:26 and Dan 9:27 are describing the same events, but from different angles as a form of emphasis.
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Greetings Sinthesis. I'll attempt to show why I do not believe this to be the case here.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
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What 62 weeks are we speaking of in which Messiah shall be cut off? Is this not Jesus' death?

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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The "He" here that makes a covenant many for one week (7 years) is not Jesus, it is the man of sin, a representative of Satan; that same power that destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus does not make or break a covenant with any for a week.

My thoughts.
 
Eugene said:
Greetings Sinthesis. I'll attempt to show why I do not believe this to be the case here.


What 62 weeks are we speaking of in which Messiah shall be cut off? Is this not Jesus' death?


The "He" here that makes a covenant many for one week (7 years) is not Jesus, it is the man of sin, a representative of Satan; that same power that destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. Jesus does not make or break a covenant with any for a week.

My thoughts.
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You cant be serious; You dont believe Jesus made a covenant?
 
Guys, now that 'end times' is back in place i need to step back and moderate so i will not be posting for a while...
 
Eugene said:
Good morning Hitch. I do not adhere to the thought of a seventieth week of Daniel as I believe that four hundred and ninety years continued right on after the time God raised Jesus up in Acts 2:32, and all that believed had all things common according to Acts 2:44 which lasted up to the stoning of Stephen, and the conversion of Paul.

I understand that you are Preterist and so will not address that except to say I believe there is a separation between Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27; verse twenty-six being those events of AD 70. If we must have a tag to identify that time I would go along with something such as "Another week, or a last week" of Daniel. Jacob's trouble of Jeremiah 30:7, and as Daniel 12:1describes a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. In other words, if you Jews, and that is what Daniel was interested in, think you've been through the wringer, you ain't see nothing yet.
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Hitch said:
I cant tell whether you are undecided or terribly unclear.
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Hitch, I'll repeat what I previously wrote above that is now highlighted: "I believe there is a separation between Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27." I'll add that I believe it continues throughout the times of the Gentiles and their fullness of Romans 11:25.

I certainly do not believe this world has faced Matthew 24:21, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Nor have we seen Matthew 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
 
Eugene said:
Hitch, I'll repeat what I previously wrote above that is now highlighted: "I believe there is a separation between Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27." I'll add that I believe it continues throughout the times of the Gentiles and their fullness of Romans 11:25.

I certainly do not believe this world has faced Matthew 24:21, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Nor have we seen Matthew 24:22, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
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What do you suppose is the reason that some future generation will suffer such horrors?
 
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