Predestination

[Drew]

All of your post are specific evidence, take your pick.

You are avoiding your responsibilities.

You have asserted that I am deceived.

Can you not provide even one specific item of evidence - anything that I have posted - that supports this serious claim on your part.

Do you think its acceptable to make such a serious claim about someone and not to then be able to back up what you say?

What, specifically am I "deceived" about?

And how do you know that I am specifically deceived? Perhaps I am simply "mistaken" without being deceived. So please tell us - what evidence do you have that some "agency" has entered into my mind and deceived me.

You made a claim - now back it up, or retract it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

So Predestination has to do with destinies:

The english word for destiny is defined as this:

1: [Noun] That to which any person or thing is destined; a predetermined state; a condition foreordained by the Divine or by human will; fate; lot; doom.

The fixed order of things; invincible necessity; fate; an irresistible power or agency conceived of as determining the future, whether in general or of an individual

The greek definition for predestinate:
proorizō:

to predetermine, decide beforehand

2) in the NT of God decreeing from eternity

3) to foreordain, appoint beforehand

God has predetermined each of our destiny, where we will spend eternity, this He determined from eternity.

 

[Vince]

"God has predetermined each of our destiny, where we will spend eternity, this He determined from eternity. "

The Bible teaches no such thing. It teaches that the saints are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, and it teaches that those who accept Christ are predestined to be adopted as sons. Period. Predestination to Heaven or Hell are philosophies of men.

By the way, I don't mind repeating this over and over again. A strength of Calvinism is that they've spread their errors on predestination well enough that they are widely believed by Christians. I'm always happy to take opportunities to teach new readers the Biblical truth that God has called all men to Him, and that He chooses to save everyone who comes to Christ.

 

[savedbygrace57]

saved said:

God has predetermined each of our destiny, where we will spend eternity, this He determined from eternity.

vince says:

The Bible teaches no such thing.

Show us where the bible states that it teaches no such thing vince ?

 

[Vince]

Another error of Calvinism concerns "election." The word means "choosing," and the Bible teaches that God has chosen to save those who come to Him. However, it never teaches that God chooses who will come to Him. The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, and God, before the foundation of the world, chose to save everyone who would accept that grace.

 

[Drew]

So Predestination has to do with destinies:

The english word for destiny is defined as this:

1: [Noun] That to which any person or thing is destined; a predetermined state; a condition foreordained by the Divine or by human will; fate; lot; doom.

The fixed order of things; invincible necessity; fate; an irresistible power or agency conceived of as determining the future, whether in general or of an individual

The greek definition for predestinate:
proorizō:

to predetermine, decide beforehand

2) in the NT of God decreeing from eternity

3) to foreordain, appoint beforehand

God has predetermined each of our destiny, where we will spend eternity, this He determined from eternity.

Nothing here supports the position that God has indeed pre-destined people in the specific sense that you believe that he has.

The fact that the word "pre-destine" can be used to capture the idea that God "determines in advance who goes to heaven and who goes to hell" does not, of course, mean that this is what has happened.

 

[Drew]

Show us where the bible states that it teaches no such thing vince ?

You continue to use this clearly incorrect line of reasoning.

And I will continue to point out the error lest others be tripped up.

Imagine that I said the Bible teaches the existence of pink unicorns. Then someone says "prove it".

And I then respond with "show me where the Bible says that are no pink unicorns".

No one should be fooled by this.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

the Bible teaches that God has chosen to save those who come to Him

.

Thats not True. Those Christ died for, by His obedeince, they shall be made righteous. rom 5:

, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Not by the obedeince of Two..

The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

Thats right, it brings salvation to all sorts of men, which are God's elect. it brings to them regenerating Grace.

Remember it brings salvation and not offer it or make it available.

 

[Vince]

Another error of Calvinism is the doctrine that faith is a good work. They teach that if a person accepts Christ by faith, that is a good work, and since a person cannot be saved by good works, this isn't possible.

But the New Testament clearly explains that faith is not a work, and that faith and works are two separate things.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Another error of Calvinism is the doctrine that faith is a good work. They teach that if a person accepts Christ by faith, that is a good work, and since a person cannot be saved by good works, this isn't possible.

But the New Testament clearly explains that faith is not a work, and that faith and works are two separate things.

Remember it brings salvation and not offer it or make it available

 

[Vince]

From a post by SavedbyGrace:

Vince

the Bible teaches that God has chosen to save those who come to Him
.

SavedbyGrace

Thats not True.

 

[jasoncran]

this christian says we ought to preach christs redemption and not calvins theology.

the later may or maynt be the truth but the former is the way to heaven.

 

[glorydaz]

this christian says we ought to preach christs redemption and not calvins theology.

the later may or maynt be the truth but the former is the way to heaven.

Amen, brother.

When we follow after man we only get part of the truth.
We see that quite clearly with Calvin's teachings.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

the Bible teaches that God has chosen to save those who come to Him

No it does not, its taught Jesus shall save His people from their sins. Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins

His People are all those Given to Him of His Father, and such given, shall come to Him..

Jn 6:


All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

They were given [Chosen] first, then they come as a result..

You should not try and twist scripture to fit your theology..

 

[savedbygrace57]

jason says:

this christian says we ought to preach christs redemption

And who was it specifically for, and what did it accomplish ?

This is who it is for ps 111:

He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

What does it accomplish ? col 1:14

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

It, redemption, was purposed by God to redeem them that Christ died for from all iniquity, and to purify them unto Himself..Did it accomplish God's purpose ? Yes..

Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed[past tense] his people,

To be redeemed also means to be delivered from the penalty of ones sins..see col 1 14 again !

Thats what redemption did. None whom Christ died for shall ever have one sin laid to their charge, not as long as He lives..rom 8:


33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Vince]

One of Calvinism's many errors is the doctrine that election (choosing) is unconditional. But the Bible teaches that election is according to God's "foreknowledge." It is not unconditional.

God knew, in advance, who would accept Christ, and He chose to save them. But He did not choose who would accept Christ.

 

[savedbygrace57]

One of Calvinism's many errors is the doctrine that election (choosing) is unconditional. But the Bible teaches that election is according to God's "foreknowledge." It is not unconditional.

God knew, in advance, who would accept Christ, and He chose to save them. But He did not choose who would accept Christ.

election is unconditional and so is damnation, but they will be damned for their sins.

But God could have very well chosen not to dam them for their sins like He did the elect.

 

[Vince]

"election is unconditional and so is damnation"

The Bible teaches no such thing.

Election is according to foreknowledge. Damnation is the result of rejecting God's light, grace, drawing, calling, gift of repentance, and teaching.

 

[savedbygrace57]

vince:

The Bible teaches no such thing.

Yes it does. God before the foundation of the world determined who would be shown mercy for their sins, and who would be damned for their sins..

 

[Vince]

The Calvinistic error that God predestines people to Hell leads to another error: that God makes it impossible for men to come to Him.

We have seen from the Bible that Jesus enlightens every man who comes into the world, and that He draws all men to Himself. We have also seen that the Father teaches all men, using that to draw men to Christ.

The Bible also teaches that God grants repentance to all men.

Acts 5:31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."