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Proof of Trinity

Drew said:
Although I have only skimmed a few posts, I will bet that one line of argument for the "Jesus is God" part of the Trinity has not been addressed. In other words, as a believer in the doctrine of the Trinity, I suggest that while it is admittedly conceptually tricky to say Jesus and God are two persons within a single "God-substance", there is a much clearer route to go down, even if it means we have to know our Bible story rather well.

It is this: In the Old Testament, we have the sub-narrative of God abandoning the Temple (at its destruction by the Babylonians) and not returning even after Herod built the second temple coupled with prophecies that He (God) will indeed return to His people. Now fast-forward to the gospels and perhaps in particular the gospel of Luke. In that book, Jesus arguably intentionally enacts the return of God to His people through His final march into Jerusalem. Given the things Jesus says en route, and the symbolic power of such a trek, a case can be made that Jesus is saying this: My life, my ministry, and this very last march of mine constitute the promised return of God to Israel.

And that is effectively Jesus saying: I, Jesus, am fulfilling this promised return of your God.

And that is as close a claim to co-divinity as I think you could expect.
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eddif said:
Since I do not know all of what you are saying, please hear this as comments.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

While I see much symbolism of God imagery in us, it is mostly like we are a temple that he will enter. God will enter if we invite him in.

Eastern Mysticism says God is in us and we must seek him. God is not inside most till he is invited in. A few have a special calling. It is hard to tell just when Paul ...........

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

It is rather a hard to get through this point, and as I said, my comment is just for information.

eddif
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If all things were created through the Word of God, then I must conclude that all mankind must have some measure of God's Spirit, Love, or the breath of Life, since we are descendants of Adam.

However, as you point out, that is different than receiving the Christ which is the Word made flesh and has come into the world as a quickening Spirit, to make alive that which was dead because of sin. 1 Corinthians 15:45. In my view, the problem with discussing "trinity" is the semantic confusion that arises because God is Spirit and can be everywhere at the same time.

There are those that cannot hear Christ's words nor receive him. John 8:43. And I suspect this is because God wants to show, that if for any reason one person is better than another person, it is because God makes them that way. John 6:44. 1 Corinthians 1:28. Acts 10:34.

But as for my point, that God is in all people. That simply means that there is a blindness that is a form of contradictory reasoning, wherein when a person rejects Christ they are against their own selves and do not know it.
Acts 18:6
And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles
2 Timothy 2:25
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
 
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I think many of the arguments and disagreements come mostly as a matter of semantics...and the later addition to the concept of the prefix Co-

For the Apostles who only knew of the one God (yachid), to get the idea of His revealing His self in three ways must have been as confusing to them as it is to some of us...but even post-Greek Christianity represents "God" as being one Ousia (substance or essence)...and this God IS the Father AND the Son/Word, AND the Holy Spirit and this is this same God as one (echad)...now yachid is numerically one and echad is corporately one...He is both at the same time...

Not to draw an obviously mundane comparison but I am a spirit, a father, and a son...as a father my purposes and functions and responsibilities are different than as a son and existentially as a spirit being....I am only one (yachid), yet three....and the three are one (echad)

So for me I worship and comprehend the one God as three and then the three as one Unity and I do not confuse the order...in other words He is not only one in the sense of three as one but one in the sense of one as three...

I hope that was not confusing

Paul
 
God cannot be comprehended, measured, or weighed in the eternal sense. It is through a flesh existence that He can be sampled, experienced, and worshipped in Truth.

Eve was a piece of Adam. And Adam, having been alone, upon seeing Eve, loved her above all things made. But she could not reciprocate and she took the man for granted, because Adam was not a piece of her, and she had never been alone. But when she bears a child, it will be a piece of her, and she will love that child above all things made, and the child will not be able to reciprocate and will take her for granted and she will come full circle.

This to me helps explain the trinity, that is an Eternal Spirit realized through a temporal existence.
 
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Drew said:
But this is precisely the problem of arguing the point through concepts - it gets overly technical. I may elect to delve into this whole "concepts-based" argument, but you are simply evading my argument. Let me explain. Even if you are right in your arguments, you need to show that my argument is incorrect. Because if a reasonable reader - if such exists - will see two conflicting positions being established.

Conclusion: Error in Scripture.


Sorry, cannot make sense of this - perhaps I need to read the thread through more carefully. But, apart from all else, if, repeat if, Jesus acts and says things that clearly show that He believes He is fulfilling the promised return of God to Israel, that establishes the very strong "equality" with God the Father that is, I believe, central to the doctrine of the Trinity.
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I did not say your Argument is incorrect, I said it's not central to prove Jesus is God. The thread has already established Jesus is God. Does Jesus vanish and become his father also?
 
Isaiah 43:10 and 45:6 just about answers Mikey (no second god created before all other creation)...only one YHVH...the YHVH who sends and the YHVH sent (see the Zech 2 and Isa 48 references) are the one and ONLY YHVH...He is also the one called the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of YHVH
 
(Post removed ToS 2.2 Discussion of Catholic doctrine and failure to follow an administrators request to not do so. Obadiah.)
 
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(Post removed ToS 2.2 Discussion of Catholic doctrine and failure to follow an administrators request to not do so. Obadiah.)
 
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Rollo Tamasi said:
If Knotical answered it in post #2, then what is everyone talking about?
Certainly not anything about the OP.
I thought that was against the rules.
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Dear Brother Rollo Tamasi, I can't answer for the moderators assigned to this forum, but once the author doesn't respond to a thread they authored for near two weeks as you did, it's likely to wander into any amount of bunny trails. I will also say that it has been interesting to many in that it is still alive for near two years.
If we look back, even you didn't seem to reply to the original post. Below is a recap of your original 6 pages of replies, and maybe you can justify them? I'm not judging; I always end up doing the same thing. Blessings in Christ Jesus. :)

Your Original Post #1
Hebrews 9:14;
"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God"!
Is this the Trinity all in one sentence?
Rollo Tamasi, Dec 18, 2013 Post #1
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/proof-of-trinity.51592/

Is this addressing your original post near two weeks later?
Post #100
Isaiah 43:11;
"I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior", and again in verse 15, "I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel's creator, Your King".
Jesus is Savior, Creator, and King.
How can one deny Him being God?
Rollo Tamasi, Jan 1, 2014
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/proof-of-trinity.51592/page-5#post-882629

Post #106
Where did Jesus say that a son had the nature of the father who begat him?
John Chapter 10, starting in verse 28.
Verse 30, "I and the Father are one".
That is certainly saying that Jesus has the nature of his father.
Rollo Tamasi, Jan 1, 2014 Post #106
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/proof-of-trinity.51592/page-6#post-882651

Post #109
He was tempted in the flesh.
He experienced everything.
But he never sinned.
And only God cannot sin.
Rollo Tamasi, Jan 1, 2014Edit Post #109
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/proof-of-trinity.51592/page-6#post-882662
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Hebrews 9:14;

"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God"!

Is this the Trinity all in one sentence?
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I have not been following this thread, but I will answer the question.

No, it is not the Trinity. The "Trinity" is a doctrinal belief which states, as I understand it, that there are three separate persons that comprise the one God and that all three are coequal and coeternal.

Hebrew 9:14 says no such thing. It merely mentions Messiah (Christ), Elohim (God), and "the eternal Spirit" ( the Holy Spirit). We are not told that the Spirit is a third person or that Messiah is coequal or coeternal with Elohim. One can read the Trinity into the text, but it is really not there.
 
(Post removed ToS 2.2 Discussion of Catholic doctrine and failure to follow an administrators request to not do so. Obadiah.)
 
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(Post removed ToS 2.2 Discussion of Catholic doctrine and failure to follow an administrators request to not do so. Obadiah.)
 
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WIP said:
Okay, some have been straying off topic, not following the forum guidelines, and teetering on RCC discussion. Let's get back to offering proof of trinity and following the guidelines.

Thanks.
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Closed for moderator review
 
When I hear trinity I hear Jesus is the Father. That is not the case. That would mean we are the Father also and we are not! Believers become ONE with God when we receive the Holy Spirit. The Father is Almighty.....Jesus is under the Father and ......Believers under Jesus

John 14:20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. The day you become ONE with God. The day you are given the Holy Spirit and are born again.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For he (the Father) "has put everything under his feet." (Jesus) Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him (Jesus), it is clear that this does not include God himself (the Father), who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him (the Father) who put everything under him (Jesus), so that God may be all in all.
This is showing that the Father is Almighty and Jesus is under him

Ephesians 1:22-23 And God (the Father) placed all things under his feet (Jesus) and appointed him to be head over everything for the church (believers), which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
Shows believers are under Jesus

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; (believers) he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have supremacy.

God is Love, Light and Holy and there is hierarchy in God. I'm referencing in scripture where is says "God is".
 
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