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Its called context.
Please show me precisely how context can change whether or not Jesus is God.

Is Jesus God?
He never dies
Yes, He is ALL that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.
Again, this is a contradiction. I have pointed out to you several times before that one of the very qualities that makes God God, is that he is necessary, that is, he has always existed. If Jesus is God, if he is all the Father is, then the only logical conclusion is that he has also always existed; there cannot be a time when he did not exist. If there was a time when Jesus did not exist, then he cannot be all that the Father is.

Your position is continually in contradiction.

Since we are asking questions:
Jesus called the Father the One true God. If Jesus always was and always was God how then do you believe in ONE God for Jesus stated on the cross "Father into your hands I commit my spirit?"

If Jesus always was and always was God how then did He become the Son?
He has always been the Son. The Bible clearly states and shows that the Son has always existed, yet is distinct from the Father, and that there is only one God. This is precisely what the doctrine of the Trinity takes into account.

About the Father it states "
"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."
Exactly. This supports the Trinity.
 
Hebrews 9:14;

"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God"!

Is this the Trinity all in one sentence?

Hebrews 9:13
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Actually the original question is looking at the comparison of the temporal aspect of the old covenant compared with the eternal effects of the one time sacrifice of Jesus.

Everyone just saw trinity and started chasing that, and totally ignored the passage. Which is what we sometimes do.
Hebrews is all about the new way God speaks through his son. Hebrews 1:1-2

You can stretch it into trinity, but the verse is comparing testaments, and Christ being the mediator.

Hebrews looks at Melchisidec, angels, Arronic priesthood, etc.

eddif
 
Please show me precisely how context can change whether or not Jesus is God.


Again, this is a contradiction. I have pointed out to you several times before that one of the very qualities that makes God God, is that he is necessary, that is, he has always existed. If Jesus is God, if he is all the Father is, then the only logical conclusion is that he has also always existed; there cannot be a time when he did not exist. If there was a time when Jesus did not exist, then he cannot be all that the Father is.

Your position is continually in contradiction.


He has always been the Son. The Bible clearly states and shows that the Son has always existed, yet is distinct from the Father, and that there is only one God. This is precisely what the doctrine of the Trinity takes into account.


Exactly. This supports the Trinity.

God is Spirit. Jesus has His own spirit. Not God. And you didn't answer my question with any reasonable sense to the question.

Jesus calls the Father the ONE true God. If Jesus always was and always was GOD then how do you believe in ONE God for Jesus stated on the cross "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord or Holy Spirit or Spirit of truth is the Fathers Spirit. The Spirit Jesus poured out or sent He received from the Father. Again Jesus has His own spirit as a firstborn Son should. So how do you believe in ONE God if Jesus always was and always was God as Jesus calls the Father the One true God. I thought I was very clear only because the fullness of God was pleased to dwell IN Jesus He is the image of the invisible God and the exact representation of Gods being. ALL that the Father is. If Jesus was God He wouldn't need that fullness. HE WOULD BE THAT FULLNESS. Again why the need for the fullness of God to dwell in the God who always was. (your premise) And you might claim to hold to one God but you don't if you state Jesus always was God since He has His own spirit. Also its clear to me the Son that was (His Spirit) was in the tent of the body prepared for Him by God.

The FATHER's Fullness (Gods Spirit) is in the SON and in that Jesus can be ALL that the Father is.
Jesus=>It is the Father living in me doing His work...
Jesus=>I live by the living Father. Why isn't He God who always was? Nope. He is Gods Firstborn.

Needless to state the scriptures never make a claim Jesus aways was nor that the Father always was. God was very specific since He uses truth in how He reveals Himself. No God formed before Him nor One after Him. Does not state always was.

Paul
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

There is a distinction being made between God and Lord that is not captured by man made trinity statements.

To me as well just as Paul wrote Jesus is the firstborn of every creature. The God of all gave Jesus life. In that God is the God of Jesus and His heavenly Father. Seems like Jesus should have stated that. On wait! Jesus did in so many ways. Given authority; The Father is greater then Him; The Father granted Jesus life in Himself. The Father is His God. Jesus always does what pleases the Father and remains in the Fathers love in the same CONTEXT that we are to obey Jesus's command and remain in Jesus's love.


Randy
 
please keep this in mind

Doctrinal Statement
We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God.

We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah, born of a virgin, totally without sin, God in human flesh, the One Who died on the cross for our sins, was buried, rose again from the dead on the third day, and ascended to the right hand of the Father in heaven, where He now intercedes for us who believe in Him.

We believe that all humanity is lost and born with a sinful nature, and can only be saved by a personal faith in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and not by any human merit or performance.

We believe in a personal devil, called Satan, who, along with all his angels, called demons or evil spirits, are destined to spend eternity in hell, and now seek to deceive the world, defeat the believers, and destroy the work of God, but can be resisted by believers, who are protected by God and the intercession of Jesus Christ our Lord.

We believe that heaven is a real place where the saved will dwell forever, and that hell is a literal place of torment where unbelievers will be punished.

We believe that genuine believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God, and are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, the true church, and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and thus, unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ.

We believe that all believers need to be filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a godly life and to be bold in our witness for the Lord.

We believe in the spiritual unity of all genuine believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
This thread is 46 pages deep, so pardon me if what im about to write has already been stated.
I just found this thread and for me to read 46 pages, is just not going to happen.

So,
In Genesis 1:26, it says..."lets make man in OUR image".
So, this has to be God and Jesus as the Word,...... as God is 1, and Jesus is the "Word (in the beginning was the Word)= made flesh", so that is 2 = Jesus is the WORD made flesh.
Note that the spelling of "Word" is in the upper case .
So, this "our image" cant be referring to the Angelic Hosts because we are made in the image of God.
Now, add to 1 and 2 = the Holy Spirit that is sent in Acts 2.
Add those up.
How many do you get?
 
This hasn't changed:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,..

But Reba your post demonstrates why the entire doctrine of the trinity in how it defines the Father, Son, Holy Spirit has stood as those who can answers such questions, (can anyone explain the trinity), were driven out when their answers weren't liked.

But the Lord has many children.


Randy
 
This hasn't changed:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,..

But Reba your post demonstrates why the entire doctrine of the trinity in how it defines the Father, Son, Holy Spirit has stood as those who can answers such questions, (can anyone explain the trinity), were driven out when their answers weren't liked.

But the Lord has many children.


Randy

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Since she is filled with the Holy Ghost she might to be inspired to speak truth. Mary and Elizabeth are in the Spirit.

I do not claim to have all this together:

Luke 1:46
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

Our soul can have a relationship and will ascribe a way to define soulish expression
(Either a title / name / behavior that helps a soul understand)

Next
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Now we are looking at how a persons spirit expresses itself (what method will it use? Name / title / relationship / behavior ?

Luke 1:48
For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Now we see we have levels that recognize / / show who we are (perhaps: gender / bond / free / King / bond slave / prophet / prophetess / name / etc,)

Next

Luke 1:49
For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

A response of fear receives mercy (fear of the right person - defined by title / name / behavior),

Luke 1:51
He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

Next

Luke 1:53
He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Do not forget inward condition as well as outward rank .

Conclusion:
The use of:
Names / titles / descriptions of behaviors. ( both inner and outer) are common.

To say there is one name for salvation is good. To quote the behavior of the one securing salvation is good. To discuss the inward response to the one who secured salvation is good..

Is there another name for the person describing repentance? John? Can we describe his behavior? Baptizer?

Oh yes the example!
Sun - Father (El names, etc.)
Moon - Son (Jesus)
Light - Spirit (Holy)

( I can supply backup scriptures)

This web site tolerates me at times. I realize some consider my thoughts strange. I do respect administration (a gift of God to the Church).

The redneck from Mississippi
eddif
 
I have believed in and loved Jesus as far back as my memory goes. There is no other name under the heavens in which one can be saved. Jesus is how God chose to forgive sin and those who listen and learn from the Father go to the Son and Jesus will raise them up on the last day. I believe Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit and was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. So I believe All that is written about Jesus and It is a relationship Christ Jesus in us and us in Him.
 
But the Lord has many children.
Exactly, hence when Saul/Paul persecuted the Christ, he had to have his blindness removed to be enabled to preach the Gospel. And how did he describe this experience?
Galatians 1:15-16King James Version (KJV)
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Notice that Paul says, "To reveal His Son IN ME" . That is to say, that Saul/Paul did not realize he was persecuting the very light and life that is himself, which is also God's Word. John 1:3-4. Such is the deception of Satan upon mankind from the beginning, when he first proposed that we could become like God, when in fact we already were. Genesis 3:4-5. This trinity issue is therefore lost in semantics just as are most theological debates. It is because temporal terms are limited when describing eternal things.

God therefore uses the temporal terms Father and Son to explain the Holy Spirit of Truth, as a consensus view which is both objective and subjective at the same time. Subjective because there is a man's spiritual view as a created being, the Son. And objective because there is a spiritual view that is from the Creator, the Father. Between these two perspectives resides the Truth of Who God is, which is the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:13. 1 John 5:7. I believe this is why the Holy Spirit does not speak of His own authority. John 16:13. Anyway, that's how I see it.
 
You have God the Father as defined by Jesus as...."my Father and your Father, my God and your God"..John 20:17
So, thats 2
Add in the Holy Spirit.
= 3
 
Exactly, hence when Saul/Paul persecuted the Christ, he had to have his blindness removed to be enabled to preach the Gospel. And how did he describe this experience?
Galatians 1:15-16King James Version (KJV)
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Notice that Paul says, "To reveal His Son IN ME" . That is to say, that Saul/Paul did not realize he was persecuting the very light and life that is himself, which is also God's Word. John 1:3-4. Such is the deception of Satan upon mankind from the beginning, when he first proposed that we could become like God, when in fact we already were. Genesis 3:4-5. This trinity issue is therefore lost in semantics just as are most theological debates. It is because temporal terms are limited when describing eternal things.

God therefore uses the temporal terms Father and Son to explain the Holy Spirit of Truth, as a consensus view which is both objective and subjective at the same time. Subjective because there is a man's spiritual view as a created being, the Son. And objective because there is a spiritual view that is from the Creator, the Father. Between these two perspectives resides the Truth of Who God is, which is the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2:13. 1 John 5:7. I believe this is why the Holy Spirit does not speak of His own authority. John 16:13. Anyway, that's how I see it.
Since I do not know all of what you are saying, please hear this as comments.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

While I see much symbolism of God imagery in us, it is mostly like we are a temple that he will enter. God will enter if we invite him in.

Eastern Mysticism says God is in us and we must seek him. God is not inside most till he is invited in. A few have a special calling. It is hard to tell just when Paul ...........

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

It is rather a hard to get through this point, and as I said, my comment is just for information.

eddif
 
You have God the Father as defined by Jesus as...."my Father and your Father, my God and your God"..John 20:17
So, thats 2
Add in the Holy Spirit.
= 3

[Demeaning statement referencing another member's intellect removed.WIP]

Some folks forget how to count when you get them in bible discussions about Trinity, not even knowing their own doctrine. The Father and Son are mentioned in over 52 different scriptures together, ought to give someone a clue, but sadly, for some, it does not.

you forgot "US" That would make 4. We are the body of the Lord Jesus, or the godhead bodily. Godhead is ruling power and we will rule and judge angels. We have just as much part of doing the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and created as God's workmanship for His purpose. We are ONE in Him as He proceeded from and is One with the Father.

However, the Modern Trinity doctrine never used scriptures, it was a Decree that came out of Rome, and they count 3 also until you apply the Mystery of the Christian faith to the formula, then you end up with 1 God, not 3, no Son, No Holy Spirit but ONE.

For it to be Modern Trinity though, you have to start with 3, then you add the Mystery. Southern Baptist call it to difficult for the finite mind of man to understand, and Methodist call it a Puzzle. That is how you end up with 1. Real simple.

The Original Doctrine never mashed Jesus into a god machine and came out 1. Jesus was of the same substance and essence as God, no different than God the Father. A real Son, that always has been, but God the same.

Now Oneness Starts with 1 right off the bat, they don't play around. They just say there is 1, and God changes personalities, dresses and what not, to manifest into other things as he see's fit. Just 1 though..

Mike.
 
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Many are starting with a creed made 100's years after the NT as your understanding of the trinity. May I suggest you start with the NT and Jesus. Nothing has changed as Jesus is all that is written of Him and no new revelation is needed for such understanding. You may have to believe in Him though, that is HIS words. But as Jesus stated first on some answers "If you can accept it..."

There is only one God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ. God's Christ the one who set Jesus above all except Himself.

Jesus:
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
 
There is only one God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ. God's Christ the one who set Jesus above all except Himself.

Jesus:
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
Jesus is God
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness (John the Baptist), Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:15 I am the LORD (Jehovah), your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The Holy Spirit is God
An excerpt of a study presented by Gene Hawkins

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The God of peace is the power of the Holy Ghost. Hebrews 13:20. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus Christ, that great shepherd of the sheep. It was the power of the Holy Ghost that raised up Jesus from the grave after three days.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
Jesus is God
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness (John the Baptist), Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:15 I am the LORD (Jehovah), your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The Holy Spirit is God
An excerpt of a study presented by Gene Hawkins

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The God of peace is the power of the Holy Ghost. Hebrews 13:20. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus Christ, that great shepherd of the sheep. It was the power of the Holy Ghost that raised up Jesus from the grave after three days.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Your doing what evolutionist do. You stuck me as smarter than that, at leas you do most the time.

Your viewing scripture with the assumption of there only being ONE GOD, or ONE DIVINE BEING.
You Assume A is true already with no scripture, so then Scriptures B must prove what you already assumed.

It don't work like that Brother.

See, doctrines have a spiritual force to them that is real and tangible. They say these scriptures mean this, and these scriptures mean nothing because they contradict what I want you to believe about the first scriptures. There is a real blinding spririt behind it, so it's next to impossible without the Lord's helping to remove the blinds so a person see's that other scripture are just as important and can not contradict.

It's like Proving God never heals, and God sometimes sends the devil to make us sick.
I Ignore all the Master Said, and mention only Paul's thorn, Jacob's hip, God made David's baby sick, Jesus only healed one at the Pool, Misunderstand Job, and focus on those only, while saying the other scriptures don't mean a blessed thing.

How many gods are there?
Many, and we are created like the Father and in His same class, and image. Satan also received the title of god, Jesus called us gods, and Paul said there are many gods, and many lords. God even considered there can be other gods put before him, same word used for his name.

And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'
(Gen 1:26 YLT)
And Jehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
(Gen 2:7 YLT)

The KJV translated Jehovah which is a title referring to only Our Father as Lord. It's a title denoting the one and only Lord God, or Jehovah God. There is only one Jehovah God, no other.

'ĕlôhı̂ym is a generic term for god, and can mean any type of god if not defined in the article. Jehovah God though is a Title, and no mistake who that is.

Jesus is God?
yes, Called God by even His Father, Jehovah God. Jesus is Not his Father though.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
(Heb 1:8 KJV)

Jesus does not have the title Lord God, that would be his father. We don't dishonor either one of them by mixing them up, that is lack of care and respect. Satan knows this though, and does his best to erase and deny the Son of God, Whom God the Father called God and give him all things.

John called Jesus the One and True God.
Thomas Called Jesus God, and Jesus did not correct him on it.

Jesus is God, just not His Father. Trinity says by a mystery, there ends up only being ONE, when there use to be 3.

Only one Savior?:
Jehovah God is the Only World Savior, and He is the one that Gave His only begotten Son. God the Father Gave his Son in the flesh, it was Jesus the Son, the Christ who came in the Flesh, not the Father. Jesus was begotten by the Father through the spoken Word saying today a son is born, and it came to pass. Jesus was made flesh through the spoken Word, and the Only Begotten of the Father this way.
We are also begotten, by the Word, but through the Son as God the Father has only ONE Begotten Son this way that was on Earth.

Isa_53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

It was the Father who crucified His Son for us, His son became our savior, the Father sent his son though to save the World and made it all happen.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(Isa 53:6 KJV)

The Holy Spirit God?
By Greek definition, the Holy Spirit is a god, a immortal being, Theos. He is not the Father God, He is not the Son of God. He is the Spirit of God, and belongs to God. He is our direct connection to God, the Power of God, and is God with us.

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
(Eph 2:18 KJV)

The Holy Spirit is not God, but the Holy Spirit gives us direct access to the Father. It's no different than the Father being there by the Holy Spirit. God operates through His Spirit on this earth by the Holy Spirit.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself, does not speak of his own, but He speaks what he hears only. He is our access to the Father, and what he hears, He tells us. If he were the Father, He would speak of his own, but He is the Spirit of God, not the Father.

There is No God like the Father, none formed before or after.
The Father Jehovah is the Creator, he created all things through, for and because of His Son. There is no god like Him, He is in a class (Though we are made like him) all by himself. Even Jesus was not confused by this, saying, My Father is greater than I. Jesus knew Who His Father was, told us, but only man can mess up something so simple to understand.

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
(Heb 1:2 KJV)

Everything the Father made was for and because of the Son. All things planned from the foundation of the World were to consist in the Son of God. Satan would like some to think there is No Son of God whom God honored before the foundation of the World. He wanted that title.

Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The Father Gave the Son glory before the World was even formed.

Jesus Came in the flesh, not the Father.
1Jn_4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Some get confused on who actually came down to save us, a scripture should help that.

Finally:
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(Jud 1:4 KJV)

Only evil and confused doctrines would deny the ONLY Lord God AND the Lord Jesus Christ. There are two of them, not One of them.
There is only One Lord God
There is only One Lord Jesus Christ.

it's not that complicated unless your brainwashed by some doctrine that came out of Rome.

Mike.
 
Hey people, all I did was ask a simple question.
Now 46 pages and 916 responses later, can't anyone answer it?
 
Hey people, all I did was ask a simple question.
Now 46 pages and 916 responses later, can't anyone answer it?
Hebrews 9:14;

"How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God"!

Is this the Trinity all in one sentence?
It shows all three Persons of the Trinity but it cannot be used to support the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
[Demeaning statement referencing another member's intellect removed.WIP]

Some folks forget how to count when you get them in bible discussions about Trinity, not even knowing their own doctrine. The Father and Son are mentioned in over 52 different scriptures together, ought to give someone a clue, but sadly, for some, it does not.

you forgot "US" That would make 4. We are the body of the Lord Jesus, or the godhead bodily. Godhead is ruling power and we will rule and judge angels. We have just as much part of doing the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and created as God's workmanship for His purpose. We are ONE in Him as He proceeded from and is One with the Father.

However, the Modern Trinity doctrine never used scriptures, it was a Decree that came out of Rome, and they count 3 also until you apply the Mystery of the Christian faith to the formula, then you end up with 1 God, not 3, no Son, No Holy Spirit but ONE.

For it to be Modern Trinity though, you have to start with 3, then you add the Mystery. Southern Baptist call it to difficult for the finite mind of man to understand, and Methodist call it a Puzzle. That is how you end up with 1. Real simple.

The Original Doctrine never mashed Jesus into a god machine and came out 1. Jesus was of the same substance and essence as God, no different than God the Father. A real Son, that always has been, but God the same.
Firstly, you should cut the condescension. Secondly, your argument is a straw man. You should be addressing what Trinitarians actually believe.
 
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