Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Proving pre-trib rapture is false, along with a question.
- Thread starter DRS81
- Start date
Whatever goes on between God and Israel is between them, I'll be gone.
Can you give me scripture that says the Church is gone before Rev 4? The numbers for the 70 weeks are not mine, but that of accumulated scripture in dates of history throughout the whole of the Bible. I do not use websites for my information except for actual dates in history as the rest I learn from scripture only. I've been studying this for 17 years so far and use to believe in a pretrib rapture, but with further study I do not find this theory in scripture. I would love to post the whole of my findings, but it's to long to post here, but if you go to my website and click on Second Coming of Christ you can read the whole article I wrote.
Deborah13
Member
Quote from your post.
"At the end of the first two periods (69 weeks or 483 years), the Messiah will be cut off, reference to the crucifixion, and that both Jerusalem and the Temple will be destroyed."
I'd just like to point out that the scripture does not say "at the end of the 69 weeks" but does say "after", H309. This is not the same as at the "end of" unless one were to say "after the end of the."
So this could mean anytime 'after' the 69 weeks were completed and not included in the 69 weeks.
ie,
Deborah took a two week vacation. After the two weeks she returned to work. If the two week vacation ended on a Friday, I would not return to work the very next day but would return on the following Monday after the weekend, a few days into the following week.
Does that make sense? The Messiah was cut off 'after' the 69 weeks, not during the 69 weeks. So could we say that He was literally crucified in week 70?
Malachi
Member
One has to wonder why some Christians are so anxious to prove that the pre-trib Rapture is false, and so anxious to go through the Great Tribulation. Are some masochistic, or what?
Could it be that Satan wants believers to (1) squabble over Scripture, (2) be confused about God's plan for the Church, for Israel, for this earth, and for the universe, and (3) to become anxious about these matters rather than rejoice in the Lord because "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess 5:9)?
As a matter of fact, the Rapture of the Church must occur before the Tribulation period because the Man of Sin (the Antichrist possessed by Satan) cannot take control until and unless the Church and the Holy Spirit have been removed from this earth, and the restraint on evil has been temporarily suspended.
Today we live in the Day of Grace. At that time they will live in the day of "strong delusion" (2 Thess 2:11). As long as the Gospel is going forth, God will not send "strong delusion" because His will is that all should be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4).
What is H309?
The 490 years will be divided into three periods as follows: seven weeks (49 years) plus sixty-two weeks (434 years) plus one week (7 years). I believe these are prophetic days as in 2Peter 2:8. At the end of the first two periods (69 weeks or 483 years), the Messiah will be cut off, reference to the crucifixion, and that both Jerusalem and the Temple will be destroyed as the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom, Matthew 27:50. The prophecy concludes by focusing on the last week of years. It says that following the death of the Messiah the people (Disciples) of the prince (Messiah) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (time of the Gentiles) as the flood means that the Gospel of Christ will be taught to Jew and Gentile all over the world and unto the end of the war (flesh and Spirit) desolations (sin) are determined. And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant (new covenant of grace) by making an end to all abominations that caused desolation or in other words make an end to all who would not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Good points Malachi, this cannot be refuted.
I let scripture speak for itself as giving a warning in such issues as what is taught by others that follow a bandwagon teaching, that even I believed in at one time, as many do not concern themselves thinking we are out of here before some Great Tribulation, but when tribulation comes upon them there will be many who will curse God and call Him a liar because they believed a false rapture theory.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Deborah13
Member
This is what I understand.....
H309 - Strong's definition of the Hebrew word used that is translated in KJV as 'after' the 69 wks. Not 'at the end of.'
In this case the Hebrew word is used as a conjunction, 'and after', which means 'after that'. So after the 69 wks.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H310&t=KJV
See the Hebrew script and transliteration...
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
As soon as the 69th week was finished Messiah was cut off. I don't see what you are talking about in this. Messiah was cut off (crucified) as soon as the 69th week was completed.
So why are you against the rapture?
Why would I or anyone who is in Christ be against being caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds. I'm against the false pretrib, bandwagon, money making teaching of it that I use to believe in as I was taught, but never found any supporting scripture for it. I asked you to show me scripture where we are taken out before Rev chapter 4, but you haven't given me any as of yet, but I have given many that says we are still here until the seventh trumpet call that follows with the harvest judgement. Then after the harvest judgement will Jesus with His army come down to set His feet on the Mt. of Olives to make an end of all abominations (sin) and God renews the heaven and earth in preperation for the New Jerusalem to be ushered down and then we will be with the Lord forever.
And you might be false too.
It's all very simple.
Just wait until the tribulation begins, and then start counting the days.
If you are mid-trib, you will know what day the rapture is.
If you are post-trib, you will know what day the rapture is.
But pre-trib?
1 Thessalonians 5:2;
"...for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night".
That's a good question.
What is going to be different about the way you live your life if there is such a thing as a "Rapture?"
I was just thinking (I do that sometimes).
What does God's Word tell us about what his church will be doing during the great tribulation?
What does God's Word tell us about what his church will be doing during the great tribulation?
I'm not. I'm going forward with what Jesus instructed us to do.