Question about Daniel 9

[Tri Unity]

The events of verse 26 have a time span of more than 40 years

That was the point I was trying to make with Hitch. I do not agree with the teaching you hold on everything; but there is nothing wrong with the GAP teaching per se, for everyone appears to agree with the GAP teaching in one way or another, they just differ in their explanation of how long the GAP is.

 

[Tri Unity]

560 -70 = 490 years Here from your post you subtract 70 years correct?
so again i ask why..?

I don't understand that either...

 

[Hitch]

Ok. When did the events of verse 26 take place..., when was the city destroyed? Did this take place 3.5 years after Christ died, or was this at 70 AD?

Daniel 9:26 ”And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and to the end of the war desolations are determined.”

The pattern doesnt change 66,67,68,69,70.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city


V26 tells us that the destruction, while certainly a result of the 'cutting off,' of Messiah comes after the 69th week. The regicide is given a more specific time frame in v 27 ,the middle of the week. Obviously the destruction did ,as per Dan come to pass after the 69th week.

 

[JLB]

560 -70 = 490 years Here from your post you subtract 70 years correct?
so again i ask why..? below is my question

Why is the 70 (I should have put the word years here) subtracted . They were years they happened. Can you show me where God subtracts them?

70 years of captivity in Babylon.

The "going forth" of the command came after the 70 years of captivity.


In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the lineage of the Medes, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-- 2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of the Lord through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. Daniel 9:1-2

and again -

Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, 2 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Ezra 1:1-2


JLB

 

[reba]

i dont see God doing any substracting. I dont see it...

 

[Tri Unity]

The pattern doesnt change 66,67,68,69,70.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city


V26 tells us that the destruction, while certainly a result of the 'cutting off,' of Messiah comes after the 69th week. The regicide is given a more specific time frame in v 27 ,the middle of the week. Obviously the destruction did ,as per Dan come to pass after the 69th week.

And that is exactly the same justification used by JLB that you love to ridicule. You have placed a GAP in between the events of Christ being cut off and the events of the city being destroyed. This is a GAP before the prophecy is completely fulfilled.

 

[JLB]

i dont see God doing any substracting. I dont see it...

What do you mean God subtracting?

The prophecy given to Daniel is for 70 weeks = 490 years.

That time-frame starts at "The going forth of the command" To restore and build Jerusalem...

The prophetic clock starts ticking at the going forth of the command!

The command comes 70 years after the Jews are taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar.

Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god. Daniel 1:1-2


Matthew tells us that -

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. Matthew 1:17


from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

14 X 40 = 560 years

The clock doesn't start ticking until the going forth of the command, which is 70 years after they were taken captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar.

560 - 70 = 490


JLB

 

[Hitch]

And that is exactly the same justification used by JLB that you love to ridicule. You have placed a GAP in between the events of Christ being cut off and the events of the city being destroyed. This is a GAP before the prophecy is completely fulfilled.

No. There is no GAP because as posted the destruction is not included in the 70 weeks.

 

[JLB]

No. There is no GAP because as posted the destruction is not included in the 70 weeks.

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26. which is 70 AD.

Again, I will type it slowly so you can read -

The 70th week comes after the 69th week.

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26 which is 70 AD.

The 70th week comes after 70AD!


JLB

 

[Hitch]

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26. which is 70 AD.

Again, I will type it slowly so you can read -

The 70th week comes after the 69th week.

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26 which is 70 AD.

So Messiah shall be cut off in 70 ad? Good luck with that.

The 70th week comes after 70AD!


JLB

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Tri Unity]

So Messiah shall be cut off in 70 ad? Good luck with that.

You miss the point Hitch. Being disrespectful is blinding you to the obvious.

 

[JLB]

So Messiah shall be cut off in 70 ad? Good luck with that. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah cut off and the city and sanctuary destroyed are after the 69th week!


JLB

 

[Hitch]

You miss the point Hitch. Being disrespectful is blinding you to the obvious.

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26. which is 70 AD.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

:eeeekkk:eeeekkk:eeeekkk

 

[Tri Unity]

:eeeekkk:eeeekkk:eeeekkk

As I said, you are blinded to the obvious.

 

[Hitch]

Messiah cut off and the city and sanctuary destroyed are after the 69th week!


JLB

So on this you agree with me,good start.

 

[JLB]

So on this you agree with me,good start.

The 70th week which is in verse 27 comes after the 69th week which is in verse 26.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

The 70th week which is in verse 27 comes after the 69th week which is in verse 26.


JLB

Originally Posted by JLB
The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26. which is 70 AD.

Again, I will type it slowly so you can read -

The 70th week comes after the 69th week.

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26 which is 70 AD.

Somebody posted that the events of v 26 occurred in 70 ad

The 70th week comes after the events of verse 26. which is 70 AD.

So I posted v 26, including what is says of Messiah, and I posted it v e r y s l o w l y.;)

 

[Hitch]

320 HE SHALL HAVE DOMINION

The seventieth week begins with the baptismal anointing of Christ. Then, after three and one-half years of ministry – the middle of the seventieth week - Christ was crucified (Luke 13:6-9; Eccl. Hi.st. 1:10:3). Thus, the prophecy states that by His conclusive confirmation of the covenant, Messiah will “bring an end to sacrifice and offering” (v. 27) by offering up Himself as a sacrifice for sin (Heb. 9:25-26; cf. Heb. 7:11-12, 18-22). Consequently, at His death the Temple’s veil was torn from top to bottom (Matt. 27:5 1) as evidence that the sacrificial system was legally disestablished in the eyes of God (cf. Matt. 23:38), for Christ is the Lamb of God (John 1:29).

The Destruction of Jerusalem

But how are we to understand the latter portions of both verses 26 and 27? What are we to make of the destruction of the city and sanctuary (v. 26) and the abomination that causes desolation (v. 2’7), which most non-dispensational evangelical commentators agree occurred in A.D. 70? In verse 26, we learn there are two events to occur after the sixty-ninth week: (1) The Messiah is to be “cut off,” and (2) the city and sanctuary are to be destroyed. Verse 27’s informs us that the Messiah’s cutting off (v. 26a) is a confirmation of the covenant and is to occur at the half-way mark of the seventieth week. So, the Messiah’s death is clearly within the time frame of the Seventy Weeks (as we expect because of His being the major figure of the fulfillment of the prophecy). The events involving the destruction of the city and the sanctuary with war and desolation (w. 26b, 27b) are the consequences of the cutting off of the Messiah and do not necessarily occur in the seventy weeks time frame. They are an addendum to the fulfillment of the focus of the prophecy, which is stated in verse 24. The destructive acts are anticipated, however, in the divine act of sealing up or reserving the sin of Israel for punishment. Israel’s climactic sin - their completing of their transgression (v. 24) with the cutting off of Messiah (v. 26a) - results in God’s act of resewing Israel’s sin until later. Israel’s judgment will not be postponed forever; it will come after the expiration of the seventy weeks. This explains the “very indefinite”35 phrase “till the end of the war”: the “end” will not occur during the seventy weeks. That prophesied end occurred in A.D. ’70, exactly as Christ had made abundantly clear in Matthew 24:15.


He Shall Have Dominion

Ken Gentry 1992, used with permission

 

[Tri Unity]

the sacrificial system was legally disestablished in the eyes of God

Hitch, you miss the point. You quoted Ken Gentry, who said:

“The events involving the destruction of the city and the sanctuary with war and desolation (w. 26b, 27b) are the consequences of the cutting off of the Messiah and do not necessarily occur in the seventy weeks’ time frame. They are an addendum to the fulfillment of the focus of the prophecy, which is stated in verse 24.”

The point you overlook is that it is “70 weeks that have been determined for your people” – not 70 weeks plus an addendum of 40 years. You have added 40 years to the fulfillment of the prophecy. If this is “allowed”; then it is clearly not 70 weeks, because the ‘city being destroyed’, as part of the 70 weeks being determined, requires a gap of 40 years (an addendum) to completion. This is exactly the same thing that you have ridiculed others for in a really rude manner; and yet here you are doing the same thing yourself. You have allowed yourself to add an addendum, but for others - who also apply an addendum - you ridicule. If it is allowable for one person then it is also allowable for another. Your argument is therefore null and void. If you allow yourself an addendum (gap), you must also allow the same rationale for another to add an addendum (gap).

Who says that the prophecy of Jerusalem being destroyed is relative to 70 AD? Why could it not as easily have been the greater destruction which took place in 132-136AD (the Bar Kokhba revolt), when Jerusalem was renamed and Jews were forbidden to enter the city?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

Your argument is riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies that are hinging on an interpretation of “a generation”; which could just as easily be applied to the Bar Kokhba revolt. A generation also applies to the ‘type’ of generation that would exist, meaning the non-believing hypocrites, not just the literal people of that time. That means the generation is applicable to our time as well.

I am certain you will ignore all information that does not agree with you, so this will fall on deaf ears with you. Nonetheless, for those who have ears to hear, the truth will strike their hearts with a bolt of lightning.

God Bless
Tri

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus' ministry begins the 70th week. Half-way into His 7yr (one week of years) ministry to His people (Jews), Jesus is crucified, rises, and turns His ministry over to His Apostles now empowered by the Holy Spirit. At the end of the 70th week Stephen is murdered by the Jewish leadership, at which point the ministry is expanded to include Gentiles. Daniel's people are Jews. The blessings to be completed within 70 weeks are Messianic and for Jews. Many Jews received them, and many did not. The desolation of the temple system that arranged Christ's murder was spiritual, which within a generation led to it's physical desolation at the hands of the Romans.