Question about Daniel 9

[Tri Unity]

Jesus' ministry begins the 70th week. Half-way into His 7yr (one week of years) ministry to His people (Jews), Jesus is crucified, rises, and turns His ministry over to His Apostles now empowered by the Holy Spirit. At the end of the 70th week Stephen is murdered by the Jewish leadership, at which point the ministry is expanded to include Gentiles. Daniel's people are Jews. The blessings to be completed within 70 weeks are Messianic and for Jews. Many Jews received them, and many did not. The desolation of the temple system that arranged Christ's murder was spiritual, which within a generation led to it's physical desolation at the hands of the Romans.

Yes, I think the gentile inclusion within the 70 weeks is very often overlooked. Cornelius appears to be the signal for this event. (Acts 10)

 

[JLB]

The 70th week which is in verse 27 comes after the 69th week which is in verse 26.

So on this you agree with me,good start.

Somebody posted that they agree with me on this.


verse 26 -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

• after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, - 33 AD
• Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred as of verse 26, which has spanned up to 70 AD.

Therefore the 70th week is after 70 AD.


The events of verse 27 come after the events of verse 26.


The 70th week comes after 70 AD.


The 70 weeks do not run concurrently.


The 69th week ended in 33 AD.


The 70th week starts sometime after 70 AD, therefore there is a gap in between the 69th week and the 70th week.


Just as there is a gap in between the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

Hitch, you miss the point. You quoted Ken Gentry, who said:

“The events involving the destruction of the city and the sanctuary with war and desolation (w. 26b, 27b) are the consequences of the cutting off of the Messiah and do not necessarily occur in the seventy weeks’ time frame. They are an addendum to the fulfillment of the focus of the prophecy, which is stated in verse 24.”

The point you overlook is that it is “70 weeks that have been determined for your people” – not 70 weeks plus an addendum of 40 years. You have added 40 years to the fulfillment of the prophecy. If this is “allowed”; then it is clearly not 70 weeks, because the ‘city being destroyed’, as part of the 70 weeks being determined, requires a gap of 40 years (an addendum) to completion. This is exactly the same thing that you have ridiculed others for in a really rude manner; and yet here you are doing the same thing yourself. You have allowed yourself to add an addendum, but for others - who also apply an addendum - you ridicule. If it is allowable for one person then it is also allowable for another. Your argument is therefore null and void. If you allow yourself an addendum (gap), you must also allow the same rationale for another to add an addendum (gap).

Nonsense

Who says that the prophecy of Jerusalem being destroyed is relative to 70 AD? Why could it not as easily have been the greater destruction which took place in 132-136AD (the Bar Kokhba revolt), when Jerusalem was renamed and Jews were forbidden to enter the city?

Get a grip, Jesus predicted the destruction, the reason for the destruction was the regicide. The regicide cannot take place unless Christ is on the scene in the flesh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt

Your argument is riddled with contradictions and inconsistencies that are hinging on an interpretation of “a generation”;

LMAO

which could just as easily be applied to t

he Bar Kokhba revolt. A generation also applies to the ‘type’ of generation that would exist, meaning the non-believing hypocrites, not just the literal people of that time. That means the generation is applicable to our time as well.

Get a grip, Jesus predicted the destruction, the reason for the destruction was the regicide. The regicide cannot take place unless Christ is on the scene in the flesh

I am certain you will ignore all information that does not agree with you, so this will fall on deaf ears with you. Nonetheless, for those who have ears to hear, the truth will strike their hearts with a bolt of lightning.

Ignoring you is getting easier and easier, despite, more accurately, because of your self aggrandizement above LOL

God Bless
Tri

 

[Hitch]

The 70th week which is in verse 27 comes after the 69th week which is in verse 26.





Somebody posted that they agree with me on this.


verse 26 -

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

• after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, - 33 AD
• Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred as of verse 26, which has spanned up to 70 AD.

Therefore the 70th week is after 70 AD.


The events of verse 27 come after the events of verse 26.


The 70th week comes after 70 AD.


The 70 weeks do not run concurrently.

All you need to do is quote an Apostle teaching this. Good luck

The 69th week ended in 33 AD.


The 70th week starts sometime after 70 AD, therefore there is a gap in between the 69th week and the 70th week.


Just as there is a gap in between the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks.

well you're half right ,the GAP between each grouping is the same.

JLB

 

[JLB]

All you need to do is quote an Apostle teaching this. Good luck

Which part of this do you disagree with?


26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

• after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, - 33 AD
• Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred as of verse 26, which has spanned up to 70 AD.

Therefore the 70th week is after 70 AD.


The events of verse 27 come after the events of verse 26.


The 70th week comes after 70 AD.


The 70 weeks do not run concurrently.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

Which part of this do you disagree with?

Only the parts lacking Apostolic warrant.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

• after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, - 33 AD
• Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. - 70 AD

The 70th week has not occurred as of verse 26, which has spanned up to 70 AD.

Therefore the 70th week is after 70 AD.


The events of verse 27 come after the events of verse 26.


The 70th week comes after 70 AD.


The 70 weeks do not run concurrently.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Only the parts lacking Apostolic warrant.

So basically you are here to spew your opinion with no scripture or no rational discussion.

It makes me wonder why the moderator allows you to stay on here.

I have never seen you contribute anything worth while to any post or discussion.



JLB

 

[Hitch]

So basically you are here to spew your opinion with no scripture or no rational discussion.

LOL Interesting response considering I asked you for quotes supporting your idea from the Apostles. # 124

It makes me wonder why the moderator allows you to stay on here.

I have never seen you contribute anything worth while to any post or discussion.



JLB

Well no one is forcing you to respond.

 

[Hitch]

Jesus' ministry begins the 70th week. Half-way into His 7yr (one week of years) ministry to His people (Jews), Jesus is crucified, rises, and turns His ministry over to His Apostles now empowered by the Holy Spirit. At the end of the 70th week Stephen is murdered by the Jewish leadership, at which point the ministry is expanded to include Gentiles. Daniel's people are Jews. The blessings to be completed within 70 weeks are Messianic and for Jews. Many Jews received them, and many did not. The desolation of the temple system that arranged Christ's murder was spiritual, which within a generation led to it's physical desolation at the hands of the Romans.

Its really not all that hard is it ?

 

[JLB]

All you need to do is quote an Apostle teaching this. Good luck well you're half right ,the GAP between each grouping is the same.

Here is your Apostolic teaching -


3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11

This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Daniel.


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


36 "Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. 37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. Daniel 11:36-37

JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus' ministry begins the 70th week. Half-way into His 7yr (one week of years) ministry to His people (Jews), Jesus is crucified, rises, and turns His ministry over to His Apostles now empowered by the Holy Spirit. At the end of the 70th week Stephen is murdered by the Jewish leadership, at which point the ministry is expanded to include Gentiles. Daniel's people are Jews. The blessings to be completed within 70 weeks are Messianic and for Jews. Many Jews received them, and many did not. The desolation of the temple system that arranged Christ's murder was spiritual, which within a generation led to it's physical desolation at the hands of the Romans.

Where is the language of the 70th week in this stoning of Stephen explaination.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


Show me the fulfillment of this scripture that contains the 70th week.

Where in the book of Acts do we find the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week?

Show me where in the writings of the Apostles where a ruler put and end to sacrifice and offering the went to the Temple and set up an abomination of desolation.

The 70th starts after 70 AD as laid out in the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

Where is the language of the 70th week in this stoning of Stephen explaination.

Stephen's martyrdom took place approximately 3 1/2 years after the death of Christ and marked a sea change in the evangelistic efforts of the remaining Apostles

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


Show me the fulfillment of this scripture that contains the 70th week.

Where in the book of Acts do we find the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week?

You already mentioned Stephen

Show me where in the writings of the Apostles where a ruler put and end to sacrifice and offering the went to the Temple and set up an abomination of desolation.

The Book of Hebrews explains the once and for all sacrifice Christ made, in the end of the world

The 70th starts after 70 AD as laid out in the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

Here is your Apostolic teaching -


3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-11

This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Daniel.


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


36 "Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. 37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. Daniel 11:36-37

JLB

Where/how does any of this support the multiplied millenia you require between 69 and 70 ?

 

[JLB]

Yes, I think the gentile inclusion within the 70 weeks is very often overlooked. Cornelius appears to be the signal for this event. (Acts 10)

The gentiles were not included in the 70 week prophecy.

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city...

Also consider this language -


And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The times of the gentiles are the gap in between the 69th week and the 70th week.

Salvation for the Gentiles is in the gap, which contains the contents of Daniel 9:26. The crucifixion included.

Messiah was cut off AFTER the 69th week, yet not during the 70th.


JLB

 

[Hitch]

The gentiles were not included in the 70 week prophecy.

"Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city...

Also consider this language -


And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

The times of the gentiles are the gap in between the 69th week and the 70th week.

Chapter&verse please*

Salvation for the Gentiles is in the gap, which contains the contents of Daniel 9:26. The crucifixion included.

Messiah was cut off AFTER the 69th week, yet not during the 70th.


JLB

*
49 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

 

[Hitch]

Salvation for the Gentiles is in the gap, which contains the contents of Daniel 9:26. The crucifixion included.

Messiah was cut off AFTER the 69th week, yet not during the 70th.


JLB

Well ,,, Messiah must be 'cut off' in the middle of 69 or 70. So unless you're defining 'after the 69th' as midway through the 69th that leaves only 70.

 

[Sinthesis]

Where is the language of the 70th week in this stoning of Stephen explaination.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."


Show me the fulfillment of this scripture that contains the 70th week.

Where in the book of Acts do we find the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week?

Show me where in the writings of the Apostles where a ruler put and end to sacrifice and offering the went to the Temple and set up an abomination of desolation.

The 70th starts after 70 AD as laid out in the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27.


JLB

You have the 7wks, the 62wks, and then 1 more wk to make 70wks. They all run concurrently without any gaps. They are the 70wks left for Jews to have a monopoly on being 'God's People'. The 'one week' of Dan 9:27 is the 70th week. For this 'one week' Jesus is presented as the promised Jewish Messiah to Israel, which completes the Abrahamic covenant for those Jews who accept Him. It was Christ's sacrifice on the Cross in the midst of the 70th wk which rendered Temple sacrifices for the atonement of Israel's sins redundant and unsatisfactory. Stephen is murdered by the Jewish leadership at the end of the 70th week. From that time on, at what would be the beginning of a 71st week, the Gospel is proclaimed to the gentiles. Because the 70wks culminate in Christ, who came as a blessing to Daniel's people (Israel), the judgment and destruction of the Temple system happen to that generation, but outside and after the 70wks. To those who rejected Him and His gift, Jesus became a curse. This still holds true today for everyone everywhere.

 

[Tri Unity]

Hitch, you miss the point. You quoted Ken Gentry, who said:

“The events involving the destruction of the city and the sanctuary with war and desolation (w. 26b, 27b) are the consequences of the cutting off of the Messiah and do not necessarily occur in the seventy weeks’ time frame. They are an addendum to the fulfillment of the focus of the prophecy, which is stated in verse 24.â€

The point you overlook is that it is “70 weeks that have been determined for your people†– not 70 weeks plus an addendum of 40 years. You have added 40 years to the fulfillment of the prophecy. If this is “allowedâ€; then it is clearly not 70 weeks, because the ‘city being destroyed’, as part of the 70 weeks being determined, requires a gap of 40 years (an addendum) to completion. This is exactly the same thing that you have ridiculed others for in a really rude manner; and yet here you are doing the same thing yourself. You have allowed yourself to add an addendum, but for others - who also apply an addendum - you ridicule. If it is allowable for one person then it is also allowable for another. Your argument is therefore null and void. If you allow yourself an addendum (gap), you must also allow the same rationale for another to add an addendum (gap).

Nonsense

I think this demonstrates that you are speaking nonsense. You have added time to your explanation of Daniel 9, but when someone else does the same you throw a hissy-fit. You don't seem to see the obvious, and when it is presented to you you dismiss the obvious as nonsense. Is that how you have arrived at all of your doctrines?

 

[Hitch]

See # 123

 

[reba]

How about stating our opinions and leaving it at that. We do not need to slight the other guy. reba