Question about Daniel 9

[reba]

Are they returning to land of promise?

 

[Sinthesis]

I believe the story that opens John 8 also has a allegorical Prophetic significance, I think it likely occurred on the Shemini Atzeret, the morning following Chapter 7's ending. Israel is sometimes represented as an Adulteress, I believe the message for those who sought to condemn this Adulteress is the same for those who condemn Israel for rejecting Yeshua at his first Advent.

You might be right.

 

[Tri Unity]

Are they returning to land of promise?

I don't believe so. The Jews are returning to the land of Palestine, not the land of promise.

 

[reba]

I would doubt this so called return is Bibicial.

 

[Hammer]

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Some how the picture i get from reading this is not the same one i get from reading a map of todays Israel.

You might not see the river of Egypt and the river Euphrates on a map of Israel, but you see those rivers on the Isreali flag.

Abram's children do possess this land. It's Arab land, Abram's children through Ishmael. In Genesis 17:20, God promises to make Ishmael a great nation. God physically fulfilled his promise to Abram through Ishmael and the Arabs. God spiritually fulfilled his promise to Abram through Isaac in Christ Jesus.

 

[Tri Unity]

I would doubt this so called return is Bibicial.

It is biblical only in the context that God said that He would punish Israel for their harlotry before the entire world.

The earliest comprehensive understanding on the Antichrist from the Early Church Fathers is that the Antichrist governments would bring Israel back in the end-times as part of the end-time deception. This is found in Hippolytus (Christ and the Antichrist) in the year 200 AD.

Israel is certainly back on the map. Either God has brought them back, as dispensationalists say, or the devil has brought them back in order to deceive the churches. Either way, they would not be there unless God had ordained them; for "there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1). Israel fits into God's plan one way or another!

 

[reba]

It is biblical only in the context that God said that He would punish Israel for their harlotry before the entire world.

The earliest comprehensive understanding on the Antichrist from the Early Church Fathers is that the Antichrist governments would bring Israel back in the end-times as part of the end-time deception. This is found in Hippolytus (Christ and the Antichrist) in the year 200 AD.

'the Antichrist' is not scriptural. Only 4 verses in the Bible speak the word antichrist and they do not refrerance to 1 man.

Israel is certainly back on the map. Either God has brought them back, as dispensationalists say, or the devil has brought them back in order to deceive the churches. Either way, they would not be there unless God had ordained them; for "there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1). Israel fits into God's plan one way or another!

I am surprised at your reply.

 

[Tri Unity]

'the Antichrist' is not scriptural. Only 4 verses in the Bible speak the word antichrist and they do not refrerance to 1 man.

I didn't say the Antichrist is one man. Nor do I believe he is. The "Antichrist" is very scriptural - 4 times the word is used, as you said. How we understand the Antichrist may not be scriptural, but the term itself is legitimate. All doctrines become muddied by the misuse of terms. This is something the devil does deliberately - we all end up opposing each other and chasing our tale. This was the intended purpose of muddying the waters. It is a shame we are not more aware of how the devil has tampered with the evidence before we so quickly jump to conclusions regarding doctrine. Practically every truth has been slandered and tampered with.

 

[Hitch]

I didn't say the Antichrist is one man. Nor do I believe he is. The "Antichrist" is very scriptural - 4 times the word is used, as you said. How we understand the Antichrist may not be scriptural, but the term itself is legitimate. All doctrines become muddied by the misuse of terms. This is something the devil does deliberately - we all end up opposing each other and chasing our tale. This was the intended purpose of muddying the waters. It is a shame we are not more aware of how the devil has tampered with the evidence before we so quickly jump to conclusions regarding doctrine. Practically every truth has been slandered and tampered with.

Indeed , still some are muddied by stark contradictions of divine revelation;


And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

The Israelites never lived in this "promised" land mass;

Judah and Israel were many, as the sand which is by the sea in multitude, eating and drinking, and making merry. 21 And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.

 

[jasoncran]

Indeed , still some are muddied by stark contradictions of divine revelation;


And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

The Israelites never lived in this "promised" land mass;

Judah and Israel were many, as the sand which is by the sea in multitude, eating and drinking, and making merry. 21 And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.

solomon had conquered all the way to the euphartaties and had them under tribute.

 

[Hammer]

It is biblical only in the context that God said that He would punish Israel for their harlotry before the entire world.

I guess Israel has stopped being a harlot, if their exile has ended? (That's a question for Zionists. I believe the true Israel is the Christian church. Ephesians 2:11-19)

The earliest comprehensive understanding on the Antichrist from the Early Church Fathers is that the Antichrist governments would bring Israel back in the end-times as part of the end-time deception. This is found in Hippolytus (Christ and the Antichrist) in the year 200 AD.

Hippolytus, a minor bishop, was speaking only for himself. He speculated that the anti-Christ would be like Jesus in almost every way, except evil. Born to jewish parents, having apostles, etc. But, I hold the position that "antichrist" is not one person.

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

I've read Hippolytus and that's not what he says.

 

[Hammer]

I've read Hippolytus and that's not what he says.

Who are you replying to?
What does Hippolytus say?

 

[Eugene]

Many do not like references to the Lord's Day, in that day, time of the end, etc., but can we envision the following scripture as applicable to a future time we've not seen before? Will the boundaries expand and be more in line with what God gave to Abraham?

Isaiah 19:24-25 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

 

[Hitch]

Many do not like references to the Lord's Day, in that day, time of the end, etc., but can we envision the following scripture as applicable to a future time we've not seen before? Will the boundaries expand and be more in line with what God gave to Abraham?

Isaiah 19:24-25 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

I reckon that is what we see in M28;19

 

[JLB]

I reckon that is what we see in M28;19

You reckon wrong!

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


According to you, the Gospel has reached the whole world, which would include the nations listed in Isaiah 19:24-25.

The preaching of the Gospel has not brought about the conditions described by Isaiah, so as the man said, these conditions are a reference to the future, when The Lord Jesus Christ returns and creates the conditions on earth as they are in heaven!


Isaiah 19:24-25 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

JLB

 

[Tri Unity]

Hippolytus, a minor bishop, was speaking only for himself. He speculated that the anti-Christ would be like Jesus in almost every way, except evil. Born to jewish parents, having apostles, etc. But, I hold the position that "antichrist" is not one person.

A minor bishop? Really?

Hippolytus opposed the Roman bishops who granted gnostics and heretics entrance into the church. He was a bastion of orthodoxy before everything went pear-shaped in the church. He was believed by almost all to be the true bishop of Rome, and the Catholics later denounced him as the first "antipope" because he went against what became the prevailing Catholic doctrine on repentance and baptism. Hippolytus stated this:

"As these things, then, are destined to come to pass, and as the toes of the image turn out to be democracies, and the ten horns of the beast are distributed among ten kings, let us look at what is before us more carefully, and scan it, as it were, with open eye. The “golden head of the image” is identical with the “lioness,” by which the Babylonians were represented. “The golden shoulders and the arms of silver” are the same with the “bear,” by which the Persians and Medes are meant. “The belly and thighs of brass” are the “leopard,” by which the Greeks who ruled from Alexander onwards are intended. The “legs of iron” are the “dreadful and terrible beast,” by which the Romans who hold the empire now are meant. The “toes of clay and iron” are the “ten horns” which are to be. The “one other little horn springing up in their midst” is the “antichrist.” The stone that “smites the image and breaks it in pieces,” and that filled the whole earth, is Christ, who comes from heaven and brings judgment on the world."
​

Hippolytus believed that the little horn (antichrist) was to be a government; but he also believed that this government would possibly be Jewish, or controlled by Jews. Irenaeus believed the same thing. Hippolytus said that the Antichrist would be a king, and he would rule though his kingdom. This does not mean that he insisted that the Antichrist needs to be considered as an individual - he is part of a government that controls many other governments. I think you are misrepresenting and misunderstanding the breadth of Hippolytus' teaching.

 

[Hitch]

You reckon wrong!

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


According to you, the Gospel has reached the whole world,

I never said that, I did though quote Paul saying so :yes Have you forgotten the reference?

which would include the nations listed in Isaiah 19:24-25.

The preaching of the Gospel has not brought about the conditions described by Isaiah, so as the man said, these conditions are a reference to the future, when The Lord Jesus Christ returns and creates the conditions on earth as they are in heaven!


Isaiah 19:24-25 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

JLB

So the preaching of the Gospel is in vain? I suggest you review what Paul said about the effectiveness of the Gospel and what our Lord said wrt the kingdom and how is grows, slowly and in sight of and next to the enemy. Only the church is commissioned to spread the Gospel and its influence over the earth. And that is the point here. Garden, Promised Land , all the earth, this is the progression in history.

 

[Sinthesis]

I never said that, I did though quote Paul saying so :yes Have you forgotten the reference? So the preaching of the Gospel is in vain? I suggest you review what Paul said about the effectiveness of the Gospel and what our Lord said wrt the kingdom and how is grows, slowly and in sight of and next to the enemy. Only the church is commissioned to spread the Gospel and its influence over the earth. And that is the point here. Garden, Promised Land , all the earth, this is the progression in history.

Kind of like a mustard seed,,, or three measures of leaven.:yes

 

[Eugene]

Many do not like references to the Lord's Day, in that day, time of the end, etc., but can we envision the following scripture as applicable to a future time we've not seen before? Will the boundaries expand and be more in line with what God gave to Abraham?

Isaiah 19:24-25 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

I reckon that is what we see in M28;19

Hardly, though Jesus has been given "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" in Matthew 28:18, He has yet to take it. Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. It will come and at that time Jesus will no longer be sitting at the right hand of His Father's throne as we read in Hebrews 12:2, and is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us in Romans 8:34, Jesus will then have that throne set in heaven and sit upon it according to Revelation 4:2. As Christ puts down all usurpation of nations these things will come to pass and we will see Him in Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. There's the cliché, song and film "You ain't seen nothing yet," and brother it's a coming.