Questions about the bible.

[Curious]

I have just finished reading the bible from Genesis to revelation (it was quite enjoyable, though reading through the genealogies was a bit of a mission) and have loads of questions.
For starters, to become a Christian do I need to believe that that the creation story in genesis actually happened as recorded in Genesis?

 

[Hopeful]

Reductio ad absurdem...

Do you believe God created the earth, and everything else, in six days? (Exod. 20:11)
Do you believe a large fish ate Jonah? (Jonah 1:17)
Do you believe that God opened the Red Sea so Moses and the Jews could cross on dry land? (Ex 14:21)
Do you believe a whirlwind took Elijah to heaven? (2 Kings 2:1)
Do you believe that God will exact eternal vengeance on those who don't love Him, (and their brothers), at the end of time?

I'm just trying to figure out how much of God's word you believe.

 

[jaybo]

Do you believe God created the earth, and everything else, in six days? (Exod. 20:11)
Do you believe a large fish ate Jonah? (Jonah 1:17)
Do you believe that God opened the Red Sea so Moses and the Jews could cross on dry land? (Ex 14:21)
Do you believe a whirlwind took Elijah to heaven? (2 Kings 2:1)
Do you believe that God will exact eternal vengeance on those who don't love Him, (and their brothers), at the end of time?

I'm just trying to figure out how much of God's word you believe.

I believe all of God's Word. All of it.

"For everything that was written in former times was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we may have hope." Romans 15:4 (IMHO this also applies to the "books" of the NT.)

How about you? How much of God's word you believe? Or, more appropriately, how much of God's Word do you understand?

 

[Hopeful]

I believe all of God's Word. All of it.

"For everything that was written in former times was written for our instruction, so that through endurance and through encouragement of the scriptures we may have hope." Romans 15:4 (IMHO this also applies to the "books" of the NT.)

How about you? How much of God's word you believe? Or, more appropriately, how much of God's Word do you understand?

I believe all of it.
How much I understand is unknowable.

 

[WIP]

[ACMP=announcement]
It would appear that some struggle with following rules. Please address your responses to the OP and leave it there.
[/ACMP]

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hail Mary! She's full of grace!!

She's full of God's grace.

 

[andy pandy]

I have just finished reading the bible from Genesis to revelation (it was quite enjoyable, though reading through the genealogies was a bit of a mission) and have loads of questions.
For starters, to become a Christian do I need to believe that that the creation story in genesis actually happened as recorded in Genesis?

No you don't. If you look at the passages that relate to salvation they do not mention believing what the bible says about creation.

Some examples are Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. NOT, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and the creation story and you will be saved.

And As many who believed on him, he gives the right to be sons of God. NOT And as many who believe on him and the creation story in Genesis he gives the right to be a son of God.

And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life.

NOT And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him and the creation story in Genesis, will not perish but have everlasting life.

I rest my case.

 

[for_his_glory]

No you don't. If you look at the passages that relate to salvation they do not mention believing what the bible says about creation.

Some examples are Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. NOT, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and the creation story and you will be saved.

And As many who believed on him, he gives the right to be sons of God. NOT And as many who believe on him and the creation story in Genesis he gives the right to be a son of God.

And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life.

NOT And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him and the creation story in Genesis, will not perish but have everlasting life.

I rest my case.

You either take the full teachings of God from Genesis to Revelation or you take none of it as all is the word of God.

When one is seeking, like Curious, they have very little knowledge, or none at all and that is why they ask and seek answers from those who are Christ own. The creation story is just as important to our belief as it is to believe Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We do not know that much about either one at first, but once we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior then begins our journey of learning that of what God has had the Prophets and Apostles to write.

Jesus is from the beginning in the creation story to the end of Revelation as He is Alpha and Omega.

 

[Hopeful]

I have just finished reading the bible from Genesis to revelation (it was quite enjoyable, though reading through the genealogies was a bit of a mission) and have loads of questions.
For starters, to become a Christian do I need to believe that that the creation story in genesis actually happened as recorded in Genesis?

If one can't believe a part of the bible, how can they believe any of it?
Is the creation account harder to believe than Jesus being raised from the dead?

 

[jaybo]

If one can't believe a part of the bible, how can they believe any of it?
Is the creation account harder to believe than Jesus being raised from the dead?

Reductio ad absurdem.

What do you think of these creation stories (plural)?

Genesis 1:11-13 , "God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: plants yielding seeds and trees on the land bearing fruit with seed in it, according to their kinds.” It was so. The land produced vegetation—plants yielding seeds according to their kinds, and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. God saw that it was good. There was evening, and there was morning, a third day."

Genesis 2:4-6, " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created—when the Lord God made the earth and heavens. Now no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. Springs would well up from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground."

Genesis 1:27, "God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:7, " The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

The first chapters of Genesis are about God and His creative powers. They are not to be taken as literal accounts of the formation of light, the sky, humanity, etc.

None of this has anything to do with Jesus being raised from the dead.

Here is what the Bible says (in different places) about Jesus' resurrection...

Matthew 28,1-10: Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here, for he has been raised, just as he said. Come and see the place where he was lying. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead. He is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there.’ Listen, I have told you!” So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”

Luke 24:1-12, "Now on the first day of the week, at early dawn, the women went to the tomb, taking the aromatic spices they had prepared. They found that the stone had been rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, suddenly two men stood beside them in dazzling attire. The women were terribly frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here, but has been raised! Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again.” Then the women remembered his words, and when they returned from the tomb they told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told these things to the apostles. But these words seemed like pure nonsense to them, and they did not believe them. But Peter got up and ran to the tomb. He bent down and saw only the strips of linen cloth; then he went home, wondering what had happened."

John 20:1-9, "Now very early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been moved away from the entrance. So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!” Then Peter and the other disciple set out to go to the tomb. The two were running together, but the other disciple ran faster than Peter and reached the tomb first He bent down and saw the strips of linen cloth lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who had been following him, arrived and went right into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen cloth lying there, and the face cloth, which had been around Jesus’ head, not lying with the strips of linen cloth but rolled up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, came in, and he saw and believed. (For they did not yet understand[n] the scripture that Jesus[o] must rise from the dead.)"

Clearly these accounts differ from each other, as do the creation stories. So, which of these are true and accurate, since they differ from each other?

=> The Bible (both testaments) is not journalism <= The different writers were creating different spiritual truths.

If you're looking for factual reporting (as in modern journalism) you won't find it in the Bible. If you're looking for God's truth (spiritual revelation), the Bible is the only place to go.

 

[WIP]

[ACMP=reminder]
Remember, this is not a debate forum. Please address your responses to the original poster's questions and avoid debates with others.
[/ACMP]

 

[Hopeful]

Reductio ad absurdem.

What do you think of these creation stories (plural)?

Genesis 1:11-13 , "God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: plants yielding seeds and trees on the land bearing fruit with seed in it, according to their kinds.” It was so. The land produced vegetation—plants yielding seeds according to their kinds, and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. God saw that it was good. There was evening, and there was morning, a third day."

Genesis 2:4-6, " This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created—when the Lord God made the earth and heavens. Now no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. Springs would well up from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground."

Genesis 1:27, "God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:7, " The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

The first chapters of Genesis are about God and His creative powers. They are not to be taken as literal accounts of the formation of light, the sky, humanity, etc.

None of this has anything to do with Jesus being raised from the dead.

Here is what the Bible says (in different places) about Jesus' resurrection...

Matthew 28,1-10: Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here, for he has been raised, just as he said. Come and see the place where he was lying. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead. He is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there.’ Listen, I have told you!” So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”

Luke 24:1-12, "Now on the first day of the week, at early dawn, the women went to the tomb, taking the aromatic spices they had prepared. They found that the stone had been rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, suddenly two men stood beside them in dazzling attire. The women were terribly frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here, but has been raised! Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again.” Then the women remembered his words, and when they returned from the tomb they told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told these things to the apostles. But these words seemed like pure nonsense to them, and they did not believe them. But Peter got up and ran to the tomb. He bent down and saw only the strips of linen cloth; then he went home, wondering what had happened."

John 20:1-9, "Now very early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been moved away from the entrance. So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!” Then Peter and the other disciple set out to go to the tomb. The two were running together, but the other disciple ran faster than Peter and reached the tomb first He bent down and saw the strips of linen cloth lying there, but he did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who had been following him, arrived and went right into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen cloth lying there, and the face cloth, which had been around Jesus’ head, not lying with the strips of linen cloth but rolled up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, came in, and he saw and believed. (For they did not yet understand[n] the scripture that Jesus[o] must rise from the dead.)"

Clearly these accounts differ from each other, as do the creation stories. So, which of these are true and accurate, since they differ from each other?

=> The Bible (both testaments) is not journalism <= The different writers were creating different spiritual truths.

If you're looking for factual reporting (as in modern journalism) you won't find it in the Bible. If you're looking for God's truth (spiritual revelation), the Bible is the only place to go.

Our POVs differ on this.
In relation to the OP, how would you answer a man who doesn't believe all that is written?
Could an unbeliever be a real Christian?

 

[WIP]

Our POVs differ on this.
In relation to the OP, how would you answer a man who doesn't believe all that is written?
Could an unbeliever be a real Christian?

Just a thought for Curious' sake. Believing and understanding what is written can be two different things. Parts of the Bible are to be understood literally as well as allegorically. Jesus spoke in parables. These are examples of allegorical passages where one must understand and believe the underlying message rather than the actual words as written. It is debated whether or not the creation story found in Genesis was literal or figurative. The point I believe we need to take from it is that God created everything and in reading John 1, we also know that it was done through Jesus.

 

[jaybo]

Our POVs differ on this.
In relation to the OP, how would you answer a man who doesn't believe all that is written?
Could an unbeliever be a real Christian?

Not to focus on semantics but what do you mean by "believe"? My considered opinion is that belief means agreeing with and living by the messages of the Bible, even if they logically contradict each other. I am a strong believer in spiritual knowledge, i.e., understanding God's will for humans, even it doesn't agree with mental reasoning.

If one approaches the Bible looking for logical inconsistencies then s/he will find them, but there is no inconsistency in the spiritual truths throughout.

 

[jaybo]

Just a thought for Curious' sake. Believing and understanding what is written can be two different things. Parts of the Bible are to be understood literally as well as allegorically. Jesus spoke in parables. These are examples of allegorical passages where one must understand and believe the underlying message rather than the actual words as written. It is debated whether or not the creation story found in Genesis was literal or figurative. The point I believe we need to take from it is that God created everything and in reading John 1, we also know that it was done through Jesus.

Great post! Please read my post immediately above.

 

[Hopeful]

Just a thought for Curious' sake. Believing and understanding what is written can be two different things. Parts of the Bible are to be understood literally as well as allegorically. Jesus spoke in parables. These are examples of allegorical passages where one must understand and believe the underlying message rather than the actual words as written.

I agree.
But if the creation event is allegorical, I gotta' ask...allegorical to/for what?

It is debated whether or not the creation story found in Genesis was literal or figurative. The point I believe we need to take from it is that God created everything and in reading John 1, we also know that it was done through Jesus.

If the creation event was only figurative, then it wasn't actually done through Jesus.

 

[Hopeful]

Not to focus on semantics but what do you mean by "believe"? My considered opinion is that belief means agreeing with and living by the messages of the Bible, even if they logically contradict each other. I am a strong believer in spiritual knowledge, i.e., understanding God's will for humans, even it doesn't agree with mental reasoning.

The accent should have been on the "all" not on the "believe" portion of my post.
If someone doesn't believe, hold true, that certain books or chapters of the bible are really from God, how can they believe anything tied in to them?
If a part of the bible is not of God, then it is a polluted trap set by the devil.
I can't, won't, don't, think God would allow that to happen.

If one approaches the Bible looking for logical inconsistencies then s/he will find them, but there is no inconsistency in the spiritual truths throughout.

Agreed.
But consigning the creation event to "allegory" or "figurative" robs God and His Son Christ Jesus of the glory they are due for creation itself.

 

[jaybo]

The accent should have been on the "all" not on the "believe" portion of my post.
If someone doesn't believe, hold true, that certain books or chapters of the bible are really from God, how can they believe anything tied in to them?
If a part of the bible is not of God, then it is a polluted trap set by the devil.
I can't, won't, don't, think God would allow that to happen.

Agreed.
But consigning the creation event to "allegory" or "figurative" robs God and His Son Christ Jesus of the glory they are due for creation itself.

I never said that the creation event(s) are allegory or figurative, but that the Biblical accounts are to be understood spiritually. They glorify the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and what they accomplished.

All of the Bible is God's word. And please drop the reductio ad absurdem line of reasoning.

 

[jaybo]

The accent should have been on the "all" not on the "believe" portion of my post.
If someone doesn't believe, hold true, that certain books or chapters of the bible are really from God, how can they believe anything tied in to them?
If a part of the bible is not of God, then it is a polluted trap set by the devil.
I can't, won't, don't, think God would allow that to happen.

Agreed.
But consigning the creation event to "allegory" or "figurative" robs God and His Son Christ Jesus of the glory they are due for creation itself.

Who is consigning the creation event to "allegory" or "figurative"? Certainly not I. And I never said that certain books or chapters of the bible aren't really from God. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post...

What I did say was that if one uses Western empirical logic to understand the creation account (and other parts of the Bible), s/he will run into trouble. The Bible is a spiritual collection of ancient writings that can only be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:17-19, "I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, will give you spiritual wisdom and revelation in your growing knowledge of him, —since the eyes of your heart have been enlightened—so that you can know what is the hope of his calling what is the wealth of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the incomparable greatness of his power toward us who believe, as displayed in the exercise of his immense strength."

Note: isn't "the eyes of your heart" a truly magnificent phrase?

 

[WIP]

If the creation event was only figurative, then it wasn't actually done through Jesus.

I don't necessarily think that is a forgone conclusion. My point, Curious, is that it is not necessary for us to dwell on any one particular event. From my reading and listening of Scripture, it is my belief that the primary focus of it all is to know God and in knowing God we also know Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The message is clear. Love and trust Jesus with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength and when we understand that love we also understand and embrace the love of others for these two commandments go hand-in-hand.

 

[Hopeful]

I never said that the creation event(s) are allegory or figurative, but that the Biblical accounts are to be understood spiritually. They glorify the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and what they accomplished.

If I understand something "spiritually, it is real to me.

All of the Bible is God's word. And please drop the reductio ad absurdem line of reasoning.

I'm glad you believe there is nothing in the bible that is not real, or, unbelievable.