Kidron
Member
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Yes.
"desire the sincere milk of the word and grow thereby".
"study to show thyself approved unto God"
Feed yourself (Spirit man) on the word of God and naturally behave more like God by such a diet as this....
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Questions Regarding Free WIll
- Thread starter Hospes
- Start date
Yes.
"desire the sincere milk of the word and grow thereby".
"study to show thyself approved unto God"
Feed yourself (Spirit man) on the word of God and naturally behave more like God by such a diet as this....
th1b.taylor
Member
True, it was dependant upon the condition of their heart and only God knows that and we are left to judge good, bad, and disguised fruit.
The choice of good is an informed choice. The choice of evil is a misinformed choice. As moral/immoral goes, the perception is determined by one's image of God which ultimately defines the terms good and evil. Hence there's something wrong in paradise is only plausible to those who are ignorant of how good they have it. Same with the prodigal son and his sin against his Father.
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smaller
Member
You've been around the salvation block long enough by now to realize that all 3 of those will be found with all of us. If we expect God to see us favorably, mercifully, graciously then perhaps it's best to see other saved people similarly?
That's kinda how Grace is, isn't He? His Attributes are, or at least should be what we deeply desire. When we "share" them amongst ourselves, He Is in us, doing so. No will of ours, but His.
The necessity for God to look favorably upon us speaks to our present lack of "free" will. We are the most free when in Grace, Mercy and Love. If we feel the need to sit in the judgment seat, we always have ourselves to look at first. And there, if we are honest, we will see LACK.
Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Luke 6:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
I would not speak of this giving, linking it to cash, but His Heavenly Eternal Attributes.
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We went through this once before but I can't remember your answer.
I understand other's point of view even though I may not agree with it.
I cannot understand how you come to the conclusion that it is NOT your FAITH that saves you.
Jesus is the propitiation for our sins.
Our FAITH in Him allows us to be saved.
No faith = No salvation.
So how could you say that it is not our faith that saves us?
One more try, please.
Wondering
I've never understood why you think the decision is not random.
We have good and evil in us.
Just because we're born again, we are still influenced by evil - even though our desire is to do good and the Holy Spirit indwelling gives us the capability, or strength, do choose this most of the time. We don't always choose the good. Thus 1 John 1:8-10.
God does not remove our ability to choose when we become born again.
W
Mike,
Could you be missing the emphasis of John 1:12 (NIV): 'Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God'?
Wond
Wondering,
People seem to stumble over the two views: (1) Salvation comes from God, and (2) Human beings need to believe. What is the teaching of Paul to the Romans 4:1-5 NIV:
Here we learn that,
So, there will be no salvation unless the person responds in faith - believes in Jesus.
However, we know from John 6:44 (NIV), 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day'. Who will be drawn? Only a selection of people (the elect)? John 12:32 (NIV) gives the answer: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself'.
In Christ,
Oz
Wondering,
People seem to stumble over the two views: (1) Salvation comes from God, and (2) Human beings need to believe. What is the teaching of Paul to the Romans 4:1-5 NIV:
Here we learn that,
- Abraham had faith in God to be credited with righteousness;
- The one who has faith is credited by God as receiving God's righteousness.
So, there will be no salvation unless the person responds in faith - believes in Jesus.
However, we know from John 6:44 (NIV), 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day'. Who will be drawn? Only a selection of people (the elect)? John 12:32 (NIV) gives the answer: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself'.
In Christ,
Oz
Kidron
Member
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W,
Think of it like this..
If there is no Cross, No Blood, No Jesus, and No God, then what value is your Faith?
If there is no atonement, no redemption, and no justification, then what value is your Faith?
Its NOTHING....its a meaningless pointless mental ascension.
Faith is DEAD-Useless, = unless it has something to TRUST, and so what we place our Trust IN..., is the REDEEMER, is what gives our Faith hope, and value.
So, Faith is meaningless ( regarding salvation), if there is not that available which actually Saves you,.... and that is not your Faith saving you... That is God accepting your faith, and then HE SAVES you.
"""(Faith, is counted as Righteousness)."""
Faith, is not the Savior.
Faith, didnt hang on a Cross and die.
Faith, shed no blood for you and me.
Faith, is only the transmission device (condition) that releases God to give us His Grace that is the "Gift of Righteousness" that is the blood Atonement, that IS our eternal security, that SAVES us.
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Hospes
Member
Kidron,
Though faith is simply a means to have the truths of the Gospel become effective in a person's life, the tone of your post seems to make little of faith. Without faith, the Gospel is unattainable, so I find faith to be a treasure beyond description. Also, ultimately, most, if not all, of Gospel promises are a means to the end of knowing God and his son. Forgiveness, redemption, no longer being under God's wrath, shamelessness, access to God, are all simply a means to knowing father God and Jesus. Faith and all the other unspeakably wonderful gifts of the Gospel are a means to an end, but they are glorious means!
Kidron
Member
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It seems this way to you because the context of 95% of my posts are generally focused on a few here who are putting too much emphasis on their faith as the means of KEEPING THEIR salvation, instead of on the one who saved them, AND IS KEEPING IT FOR THEM.
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HOSPES,...
If you read James, he says.....can "faith" save you.?
And the answer is, NO.... and this is because God saves you, and James is showing you this distinction.
James obviously knows that you cant please God without faith, and God cant save you without your "decision moment" of Faith, yet he says "can faith save you".
There are those here who are putting too much emphasis on worrying about keeping their "Faith", when they are already Saved by God, and dont have to worry.
So, just as James would tell you...= stop talking about your faith or worrying about it, and go out and DO SOMETHING FOR GOD BECAUSE YOU >ARE< SAVED .......I will tell you the same....
Hebrews 8:12
Hebrews 12:2
Philippians 1:6
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th1b.taylor
Member
The Prodigal is an excellent choice but your read is skewed. He was raised with and by a very godly man. There is almost zero chance he was misinformed and yet he chose evil for a season.
th1b.taylor
Member
Let's deal with this one verse understanding that God is not some arbitrary dummy. You underlined exactly for my point. If I need a drink I can sit there and want, waiting for another to fulfill their will to provide for me and do without or I can move myself off the bed and sit in my wheelchair and drive myself (my free will) to the Fridge and get myself a fresh Dr. Pepper or Sprite.
Free will gives me the choice to reject God's, unforced, love or I can accept it, as I eventually did.
th1b.taylor
Member
Amen, the Word of God does proclaim, "for by faith we are saved." and then there is the passage on he that endures to the end.
Hospes
Member
Keep writing statements like this and someone may mistake you for being Reformed.
In my not-so-humble opinion, God made his gift of hope a pillar in our knowing Him, so you are standing in a good place on this.
Your response seems to me to be the logical corollary to the belief in free-will as I described it in the OP. Does it concern you, given that to have free will in heaven you must have the knowledge and ability to choose evil?
Are you writing there will be no motivation to choose evil in heaven, therefore no one will choose evil? If so, isn't free will no longer really free if all motivation to choose one of the two ways is totally removed?
Your answer is similar to others. I find it surprising no one sees my guilt in equipping a person and allowing them to do evil, with my knowledge. I think it may be that any God-fearing and God-loving person refuses to go near anything that calls God's goodness into question. (I applaud and feel the same way, so it is a very good thing.)
Wondering. "Random" to me means, no particular reasoning behind the choice/decision. So it sounds like you're saying the choice/decision between good and evil is random when you say this, I've never understood why you think the decision is not random. Therefore it's confusing to me when you then say, "Just because we're born again, we are still influenced by evil". It's not that I disagree with the statement, but being influenced by evil is not a random occurrence. For example a lie exists only to subvert the Truth. There is a reasoning behind evil that influences people, it's not random but has purpose in undermining God..
Kidron
Member
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The reason your 2nd scripture cant be talking about NT salvation, is because "enduring" is a work, its something that we DO.
And Salvation is a Grace, its a Gift.
So, we dont "endure", to get Grace or a keep a Gift.
"Grace through Faith, and this NOT OF YOURSELF". and that is because its of JESUS who completes our faith.
Hebrews 12:2
So, Yes i know what the verse says, i can read, however, not all scriptures are given to be DOCTRINE, and this one, has nothing to do with "Grace through Faith".
As God's GRACE cant be us "enduring".
So, the Gift of Salvation, cant be changed into "enduring to the end", tho many will try to spin that verse.
I don't see that at all. He imagined his life would be greater, and he could do better for himself outside of his Fathers house. After leaving, he found out that even the servants at his Fathers house ate better than him. Only then did he realize he had sinned against his Father. So the story of the prodigal son shows he was absolutely uninformed, which allowed him to imagine things that were never really true. This story is about relationships being built upon faith. If you wish to say he had no faith, then I agree.
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Kidron
Member
That sure is complex. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Could it be simpler?
Could it be that the younger (spoiled) son, was at that rebellion age where they want a taste of the pleasures of life and go out and waste a whole lot of years learning how stupid they were to do that?
This is the life story of a lot of people, and not just males.
And then, we see now the Father understood all this, and was happy the "ruined" boy figured it out and came back home.
This is a picture of the Love of God, and how He deals with a backslider, or anyone who has "gone astray".
Its a picture of JESUS standing at the front door at 2am with the light on saying...."come back home, little lost sheep"....You are FORGIVEN......come HOME....