I have an article I wrote on the second coming of Christ you might be interested in reading or maybe not. It's on my website that you can click on at the end of my post. I do not read or study out of any books other than the Bible.
Rapture Theory
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I have an article I wrote on the second coming of Christ you might be interested in reading or maybe not. It's on my website that you can click on at the end of my post. I do not read or study out of any books other than the Bible.
for_his_glory, I don’t disagree with their position and authority, but the 24 elders & 4 living ones or beasts are of the church, and thus come out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. Rev 5:9. Of the church they also have the closest proximity to the throne; round about and in the midst of it. Rev 4:4 & 4:6.
They both sing, and they both reign as kings and priests over the earth. Rev 5:10. The elders represent those dead that come with Christ, and the four living are them that are alive and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thes 4:16 dictates that order of all saints John will see in heaven.
The beasts or living ones as Ezekiel describes them are in direct service as they hand out, show, and/or direct judgments being handed out. Rev 6:1, 6:3, 6:5, 6:7, and 17:7. Above all they are in Jesus’ presence when He takes His own throne in Rev 4:2. I’ll leave off here and see what this produces.
My thoughts.
Thank you Eugene for your input and since I have already given what I know I will also see where this goes. God bless.
onelove said: During this time,there will be two groups of people,those with mortal souls,and those with immortal souls....Although all shall be changed at Christ return, those with mortal souls will stand the chance of dying the 2nd death,that's why they must be taught...
When are they taught and who will be here to teach them for when the seventh trumpet sounds Jesus will return for His Bride thus we will be with the Lord forever. When we are taken up the Holy Spirit is also taken up as the Holy Spirit dwells in us that have made ourselves ready for His return. We come back with him as he fights the last battle when Satan is loosed to deceive the nations and gather his army to fight against Jesus and His army at Armageddon, Rev 19:7-21.
Not sure what your source is for the clouds and the air, but this is what God has already said:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
maybe these verses will help you understand that after we are taken up and the final battle won this present earth will pass away and made ready for the New Heaven and New Jerusalem, which is where we will be with the Lord forever.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Make me understand?I do not know what your take is on the end times and our roll in it.I do understand that I have done my research and scripture reading for a very long time.I believe in what the Holy Spirit has comforted me with and you believe in what you believe in.
I agree Kathi,,, I am going to struggle with words here.... We have different view that is sure clear i dont think one of us in this whole thread %100 agrees with another... Personally i dont agree with today what i was taught 40-50 years ago...I do believe He comforts us with the knowledge we each need. Being the ONE who has it right is not as important as being RIGHT with Him... i think we can all agree on that..
He opens the Word to each of us as we are able to grasp it....and as those we share can eat....... we dont feed foods to our kids they cant tolerate babes or not. Having been thankful to found CFnet a few years ago i still am ... We can share.. discuss ...disagree in the Word and yet be in the Body of Christ...
Thankful to all the contributions and those contributing to the thread...
The two witnesses can not be that of Elijah or Moses as even now they are dead (sleep) in their graves. The two witnesses spoken of in Rev 11 is the word (God) and the Spirit (Holy Spirit) which is given
to the Church (body of Christ) to preach until the day of the Lord, which is when Christ returns.
John compares the two witnesses to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter four it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes
holds the oil (anointing), which is that of the seven Spirits of God:wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverance, might and Spirit of the Lord.
Satan has always tried to shut the word down and thought he did so when Christ was crucified, but in three days the word (Jesus) was
made live again. The two witness are that of the word and Holy Spirit as we the body of Christ continue in teaching His word until the seventh trumpet call. It's only through the Spirit of God that can shut up heaven and destroy His enemies.
I was just responding to your post #74 as you said you were confused about the new heaven and thought these verses would shed some light on your confusion. That's all that was meant by my reply. I know we all have different takes on how we study and that's why we come to share with each other. There should never be I'm right and you are wrong, but to only discuss that of what each believes and let each one draw their own conclusions
Let me show you what the scriptures says. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 - 5:4
1 Thessalonians is the description of the Resurrection and Rapture.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians is the description of the Day of The Lord.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout...For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
JLB
P.S. - But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. Matthew 24:43-44
Thanks reba I agree.I agree Kathi,,, I am going to struggle with words here.... We have different view that is sure clear i dont think one of us in this whole thread %100 agrees with another... Personally i dont agree with today what i was taught 40-50 years ago...I do believe He comforts us with the knowledge we each need. Being the ONE who has it right is not as important as being RIGHT with Him... i think we can all agree on that..
Having been thankful to found CFnet a few years ago i still am ... We can share.. discuss ...disagree in the Word and yet be in the Body of Christ...
Thankful to all the contributions and those contributing to the thread...
Yes,I am saying that there will be those mortals who have entered the Millennium Kingdom from the tribulation that will be flesh and blood and will be able to have children.We who have been raptured and have been in heaven with Christ will not be mortal.We will be the Saints with a body like Christ.Our bodies have been changed during the rapture.
The Saints will ride with Jesus on white horses at the end of the tribulation and will witness the great battle of Jesus with Satan.We know who will winWe as the Saints will rule the Millennial Kingdom with Christ.
How is that possible,when flesh and blood can't enter that kingdom?
This earth will never be destroyed,it will be rejuvinated,in other words it will return to how it was when God first created it...
Curiosity question,why do you say they are in the grave,when they appeared with Christ on the Mount?
Another question,if all the saved are raptured,who will satan try and fool that he's Christ,for that's his sole purpose,deception,which is claiming to be Christ?
See it's my understanding that the world will be deceived into following him,not forced......
See it's my understanding that the world will be deceived into following him,not forced......