Bible Study Regeneration / Baptism

[JLB]

Question was asked:
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Questioned answered:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Explanation:
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Embryonic fluid has nothing to do with what Jesus was saying being born of water and of Spirit. What would embryonic fluid have to do with being born of the Spirit. If one had not heard the word (living water) of Jesus in John 3:5 then they would not know of a Spiritual rebirth.

Born of water is a reference to natural child birth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6

In order to be born again, one must first be born.

Came by water is a reference to natural child birth.

Came by water and blood is a reference to supernatural virgin birth.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Question was asked:
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Questioned answered:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Explanation:
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Embryonic fluid has nothing to do with what Jesus was saying being born of water and of Spirit. What would embryonic fluid have to do with being born of the Spirit. If one had not heard the word (living water) of Jesus in John 3:5 then they would not know of a Spiritual rebirth.

Are you saying the water spoken of by Jesus in John 3 is not natural Birth water OR baptisimal water, but THE WORD? (the word would be the water).

 

[Kidron]

A cult means that you are following a person.
The C C teaches Jesus, NOT a person.

We can believe that they teach incorrect doctrine. OK.
But how could you call them a cult??

I dont love the CC.
I dont agree that the Pope is "Peter" 2000 years later.
I dont agree that Mary is a secondary mediator who is praying for me when i die, or that she is the "Queen of heaven".
Transubstantiation?......are you kidding me?
Really?
Prayers for the dead?
Mary as a "perpetual Virgin"?. ????????????
HUH????
C'mon.
So, i can list so many cultish things about this peculiar belief system, but, if a person loves the CC, are they going to hear me?
You say..."well the CC talks, teaches, preaches, about Jesus".... = so that means it cant be a cult.
Well, if that is true, Wondering, then the JW's and the Mormons are also not a cult, as according to your defense...."if you talk about Jesus, then you can't be a cult". ( as they both talk about Jesus, a lot).
I would have to strongly disagree with your theory on that one
The CC a cult.
Its a pretty one, with lovely ceremonies, wonderful costumes, and astounding theatrics..

And of course this is really cool.

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/...0-cool-facts-about-the-vaticans-swiss-guards/


K

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont love the CC.
I dont agree that the Pope is "Peter" 2000 years later.
I dont agree that Mary is a secondary mediator who is praying for me when i die, or that she is the "Queen of heaven".
Transubstantiation?......are you kidding me?
Really?
Prayers for the dead?
Mary as a "perpetual Virgin"?. ????????????
HUH????
C'mon.
So, i can list so many cultish things about this peculiar belief system, but, if a person loves the CC, are they going to hear me?
You say..."well the CC talks, teaches, preaches, about Jesus".... = so that means it cant be a cult.
Well, if that is true, Wondering, then the JW's and the Mormons are also not a cult, as according to your defense...."if you talk about Jesus, then you can't be a cult". ( as they both talk about Jesus, a lot).
I would have to strongly disagree with your theory on that one
The CC a cult.
Its a pretty one, with lovely ceremonies, wonderful costumes, and astounding theatrics..

And of course this is really cool.

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/...0-cool-facts-about-the-vaticans-swiss-guards/


K

Kidron
I didn't go to the link.
Who cares about the vatican or the swiss guards?
It's a big institution. It has to be maintained.
I'll tell you this: All the little town churches around me here are poor. Very poor.

And I'll tell you WHY the JW are not like the CC.

The JW don't believe Jesus is God.
The CC believes and teaches that Jesus is God.
I agree with the rest of what you said, but they have their reasons and if that's what they want to believe, they have the perfect right to.

Some on these boards believe you get saved once and are saved forever.
Some believe if they ask God for something, they'll get it.
Some believe they don't need to do any work for God because Jesus already did it all.

Why aren't they a cult?
Everything I just listed above is not biblical.

Some Protestants believe there's no hell.
Some believe we're in the 1,'000 year reign.
Should I go on?

Something else...and I'm not here to protect the Catholic Church since it had nothing for me when I met up with Jesus...

If it wasn't for the Catholic Church keeping out heresies back in the beginning, there wouldn't be any Christianity as we know it.

One question for you regarding Peter being the first pope:

When was the first Super Bowl played?
Was it Always called that?
Why is it called the Super Bowl Now?
This is why Peter is referred to as the first Pope.

 

[Kidron]

Kidron

Everything I just listed above is not biblical.

This is why Peter is referred to as the first Pope.

Hello,

I appreciate what you have taken the time to continue to respond, however, if you only apply your standards of other church's beliefs to other churches, yet have a slight resistance to applying them to the CC as well., especially when you are referring to beliefs as "not biblical"......then how can you be using fairness or accuracy?
Honestly, the CC, has more non-un-biblical beliefs then most other cults combined.
We could spend a day discussing Mary's children, for example.
Or we could talk a while about what you do if you are eating the Eucharist, and some of it falls out of your mouth unto the carpet.
That's Jesus down there, unless the Catholic belief about this wafer- cookie, being the LITERAL BODY OF JESUS,... is just "joking".
But i dont think its a joke to them....
So, be careful later with the Vac, as you dont want to suck Jesus The Christ up into the Vac bag.
Crazy?
Sounds crazy?
No, that Catholic Theology regarding the wafer, Transubstantiation,.............etc.

And the reason that the CC teaches that Peter is the first Pope is because they twisted the scripture off the hook to contrive this man made "pope ascension" nonsense.
The CC teaches that Peter is the ROCK, (pope) that God will build his church upon, ...and that is exactly a lie.
The scripture does not say that, does not teach that, and does not mean that.. unless you manipulate the GREEK TEXT into a man made translation that teaches this mess.
Yep.
Thats how its done.
Same as rewriting the greek text to teach "born AGAIN BY WATER".

So, the reality is......Jesus refers to the revelation that Peter understood as "the ROCK"....
The REVELATION is the "rock", not the man, Peter.
But the CC needs a man to be the rock so that they can control control control, entire countries with this mess.
So, thats the issue.
These CC lies are so old and so ingrained within the minds of Catholics, and because of this, not only will they not even consider that they have been misled and lied to..........but as a matter of fact, they wont even take 1 minute to actually discover that they have been deceived.
They are, in fact, happily deceived, and there is nothing you can do with this type mindset, Wondering.

 

[for_his_glory]

Are you saying the water spoken of by Jesus in John 3 is not natural Birth water OR baptisimal water, but THE WORD? (the word would be the water).

Hi wondering,
Yes that is what I am saying. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

 

[for_his_glory]

Born of water is a reference to natural child birth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6

In order to be born again, one must first be born.

Came by water is a reference to natural child birth.

Came by water and blood is a reference to supernatural virgin birth.


JLB

We are born of flesh and it is the flesh which needs to be Spiritually reborn or made renewed by the Spirit of God as the flesh is sinful and full of iniquity. In a sense one does have to literally be physically born first, but we also have that sin nature after we are born.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

I posted this to wondering, but will also post this here in case you missed it.

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word) that no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

 

[billybalke]

We are born of flesh and it is the flesh which needs to be Spiritually reborn or made renewed by the Spirit of God as the flesh is sinful and full of iniquity. In a sense one does have to literally be physically born first, but we also have that sin nature after we are born.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

I posted this to wondering, but will also post this here in case you missed it.

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word) that no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

One thing I simply can't understand is why you folk will argue (and thats what you are doing) back and forth on these threads and yet refuse to discuss these matters (or any other) on the one on one. Could it be that what you teach is on a more permanent record etc.

Just wondering, God bless, Billy

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi Billy,
I never liked one on one in the forums as what I post in here are from many classes I have written throughout the years and have taught in the Church and prisons.This is Bible study where we share and possibly learn from each other. I for one will never argue the word, but always lay it on the table of what I believe even though some do not agree and that's OK with me. There are times when I have been wrong and have been corrected and I take that correction as growth.

Arguing brings nothing to light and brings no glory to God, but it's when we can be civil mature adults that we can discuss our differences without feuding between the brothers and sisters in any forum. I've been teaching the word of God for over 25 years now and I would never ask anyone to agree with me, but to take the scriptures I give and study them for themselves praying first and asking the Holy Spirit to show them truth. If we still disagree so be it, but we must always walk in love for one another.

 

[billybalke]

Hi Billy,
I never liked one on one in the forums as what I post in here are from many classes I have written throughout the years and have taught in the Church and prisons.This is Bible study where we share and possibly learn from each other. I for one will never argue the word, but always lay it on the table of what I believe even though some do not agree and that's OK with me. There are times when I have been wrong and have been corrected and I take that correction as growth.

Arguing brings nothing to light and brings no glory to God, but it's when we can be civil mature adults that we can discuss our differences without feuding between the brothers and sisters in any forum. I've been teaching the word of God for over 25 years now and I would never ask anyone to agree with me, but to take the scriptures I give and study them for themselves praying first and asking the Holy Spirit to show them truth. If we still disagree so be it, but we must always walk in love for one another.

Thank you kind sir. Its most difficult to understand why one can put the same thing on common threads and not consider it arguing yet if put on the one on one is arguing and taboo

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello,

I appreciate what you have taken the time to continue to respond, however, if you only apply your standards of other church's beliefs to other churches, yet have a slight resistance to applying them to the CC as well., especially when you are referring to beliefs as "not biblical"......then how can you be using fairness or accuracy?
Honestly, the CC, has more non-un-biblical beliefs then most other cults combined.
We could spend a day discussing Mary's children, for example.
Or we could talk a while about what you do if you are eating the Eucharist, and some of it falls out of your mouth unto the carpet.
That's Jesus down there, unless the Catholic belief about this wafer- cookie, being the LITERAL BODY OF JESUS,... is just "joking".
But i dont think its a joke to them....
So, be careful later with the Vac, as you dont want to suck Jesus The Christ up into the Vac bag.
Crazy?
Sounds crazy?
No, that Catholic Theology regarding the wafer, Transubstantiation,.............etc.

And the reason that the CC teaches that Peter is the first Pope is because they twisted the scripture off the hook to contrive this man made "pope ascension" nonsense.
The CC teaches that Peter is the ROCK, (pope) that God will build his church upon, ...and that is exactly a lie.
The scripture does not say that, does not teach that, and does not mean that.. unless you manipulate the GREEK TEXT into a man made translation that teaches this mess.
Yep.
Thats how its done.
Same as rewriting the greek text to teach "born AGAIN BY WATER".

So, the reality is......Jesus refers to the revelation that Peter understood as "the ROCK"....
The REVELATION is the "rock", not the man, Peter.
But the CC needs a man to be the rock so that they can control control control, entire countries with this mess.
So, thats the issue.
These CC lies are so old and so ingrained within the minds of Catholics, and because of this, not only will they not even consider that they have been misled and lied to..........but as a matter of fact, they wont even take 1 minute to actually discover that they have been deceived.
They are, in fact, happily deceived, and there is nothing you can do with this type mindset, Wondering.

Come on Kidron...
Tell us what you really think!
Don't hold back.

Catholics believe Jesus is God.
They believe He became a man.
They believe He died for our sins.
They believe He resurrected on the third day.

This is ALL one has to believe to be considered a Christian.
All that other stuff is doctrine.

You say I'M not being fair to the other sects of Christianity.
I'M NOT CALLING THEM A CULT.
I'm applying the same standard to all churches.

I'm saying that I don't agree with their DOCTRINE.
YOU are calling the CC a cult.
This is incorrect.

Jesus clearly said we must be born again of water and of spirit. I don't see the problem, TTYTT.

I hate to be in the position of defending a Church with whom I do not agree on a lot.

But speak of the Greek!
Check out John 6:54a. In Greek it means TO CHEW. Jesus is saying that we are to chew his flesh to have eternal life. They DO base their theology on facts - maybe facts we may not agree with, but facts nonetheless.

Mary's Children. There is a real problem if you look into this. Brothers - cousins. You know the story. It IS truly difficult to distinguish what is meant because of the lost Language and the cultural life of the time. Did you know that in Italy a niece is a niece and a niece is also a grandchild? How will anyone know the difference hundreds of years from now if something is written about someone? It has to be based on other things that are written. So they want to believe Mary was a virgin forever. What does that take away from Jesus? We have churches that make JESUS out to be Santa Claus!

You don' like transubstantiation? Fine. What does it take away from you if Catholics want to believe in it? You DO know that some Protestants believe the Real Presence - like the Lutherans. You DO know that Luther believed in it till his dying day. If anything it gives Jesus MORE importance, not less --- so explain the harm to me.

I tried to explain about Peter. Peter was NOT the first Pope. The CC is not dumb, they DO know this. Since the first Pope in the 4th century, they just decided to call everyone who had THAT OFFICE the "Pope". This is what was done with the Super Bowl. It was NOT Always called the Super Bowl, although the Championship game was ALWAYS played. AFTER deciding to call it the Super Bowl, EVERY Championship game has been referred to as the Super Bowl . It's the same.

We have Popes. Joel Osteen is one. Joyce Meyers is one. Jimmie Swaggart is one.
Jakes, Dollar ---- so many more. Every Church has a head. The head office of the Church I went to was in Youngstown Ohio. The Catholic one is in Rome. So what?

A big problem I find is the praying to Mary and to saints. They don't WORSHIP them, but they do pray to them. I find purgatory and confession to be problematic. Other than that, let them believe what they want to believe.

You still haven't either described a cult or show HOW they are cult.
I did post the meaning of the word. I guess you don't agree with it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering,
Yes that is what I am saying. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

Hi FHG

I agree that JESUS is the Living Water and you've correctly posted the verses above.
I just don't understand how the word is the living water.
Never heard of this.

Are you saying that Jesus, as THE WORD, is the living water
OR
The bible, the WRITTEN word is the Living water?

If you're saying the written word is the water, is there scripture for this??

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering,
Yes that is what I am saying. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

P.S. I agree with your second paragraph.
I'm just trying to understand what you mean by living water....

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi billy,
Thought I would let you know I'm a female not a guy. Many make that mistake.

 

[GodsGrace]

One thing I simply can't understand is why you folk will argue (and thats what you are doing) back and forth on these threads and yet refuse to discuss these matters (or any other) on the one on one. Could it be that what you teach is on a more permanent record etc.

Just wondering, God bless, Billy

BB
Arguing is a strong word.
I'd say: Discussing.

Why not one on one?
First of all it's nice that everyone reading along can know what is being said and may learn something from the Exchange.

Second, a one on one takes time and not everyone has that time.
I log in and stay logged in sometimes even if I'm in the kitchen making dinner. See?

Just say what you want to say!

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi billy,
Thought I would let you know I'm a female not a guy. Many make that mistake.

I think you could ask to have your avatar name changed to pink.

I kind of remember that the boys were going to get blue
and the girls were going to get pink --- which, in fact, I have.
(I may be wrong about this).

 

[billybalke]

I think you could ask to have your avatar name changed to pink.

I kind of remember that the boys were going to get blue
and the girls were going to get pink --- which, in fact, I have.
(I may be wrong about this).

I do apologize! Very sorry about that.
God bless, Billy

 

[billybalke]

BB
Arguing is a strong word.
I'd say: Discussing.

Why not one on one?
First of all it's nice that everyone reading along can know what is being said and may learn something from the Exchange.

Second, a one on one takes time and not everyone has that time.
I log in and stay logged in sometimes even if I'm in the kitchen making dinner. See?

Just say what you want to say!

On the one on one you do not have to answer immediately, only when you have time. Days may go be before you can get back. Thats a benefit for both parties.

On the one on one it remains a permanent record for all to read in the future and represents the best of each opponent. Yes, it is true one can go back to the common thread but who wants to sift back to countless threads and posts?

Right now I have more time than ever to be near the computer because my wife is very ill.

I don't want to sound mean but perhaps the real reason some don't agree to the one on one is because they fear their lack of knowledge of the scripture. I do not say this to indict anyone's sincerity however.

Best wishes, Billy

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG

I agree that JESUS is the Living Water and you've correctly posted the verses above.
I just don't understand how the word is the living water.
Never heard of this.

Are you saying that Jesus, as THE WORD, is the living water
OR
The bible, the WRITTEN word is the Living water?

If you're saying the written word is the water, is there scripture for this??

The whole Bible is the word of God that that brings life to us (living word) as His word is alive and active when we apply it to our life.

Isaiah 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. 2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

John 7: 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think you could ask to have your avatar name changed to pink.

I kind of remember that the boys were going to get blue
and the girls were going to get pink --- which, in fact, I have.
(I may be wrong about this).

I did change it. That's me on one of our four wheeler trail rides. They do need blue and pink, LOL