Revelation 20:1-3

[for_his_glory]

I will let for_his_glory set the time of tribulation of future saints drinking the same cup as Jesus did.

That would have to be another topic about drinking the same cup as Jesus did as it has no bearing on the OP as it's about our Baptism into Christ.

As far as the tribulation of the saints scripture says we will always have tribulations, John 16:33, until the last day when Christ returns for His saints and puts an end to all the evil in this world.

Rev 7:14
In John’s vision the elder was asking John if he had understanding of those which are in white robes and how they came to be there. John did not recognize them as being Jews and asked the elder to explain who they are and where did they come from. The elder reveals to John these are they who have come out of great tribulation being Gentiles that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and were baptized and received the Holy Spirit as the Jews have received.

The catching up of the saints happens at the time of Christ return on the last day, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, before the Millennium begins and Satan being bound. At the time of Christ return with His army of angels being the host of heaven He sends his angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him, Matthew 24:29-31. While the angels are gathering us up to Him to meet Him in the air He by the spirit of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8 will expose the beast and its false prophet and cast them alive into the lake of fire. The remnant, which I believe are all the governing authorities here on earth that have always followed after the beast, Jesus will slain just by the words He speaks of their damnation, Rev 19:11-21. Then will the 1000 years begin with the binding of Satan.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You are missing the full context of Genesis 15:1-6 as this is speaking about the seed covenant God made with Abraham about he and Sarah being childless. What God gave in showing Abraham all the stars in heaven God said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. From that day forward all who are of faith are the seed of faithful Abraham.

Paul also confirms this in Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Millennium does not start until Christ returns as at that time we who are His own are to meet Jesus in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Sorry, but in the Millennium Kingdom no one is married or given in marriage. There will be no procreation to further any new generations.

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

I only have time to answer the first part of your reply now. God willing I'll answer the second part soon later.

I will concede the literal interpretation of Genesis 15:5 can refer to the many nations on earth before the millennial kingdom (Rom. 4:18)

But your claim procreation doesn't occur during the millennial kingdom is incorrect. I agree believers will have resurrection bodies like Christ's and they will not marry or be given in marriage, BUT they are Kings and Priests in Christ's kingdom and they evangelize those who enter the kingdom unsaved AFTER Armageddon.

9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth." (Rev. 5:9-10 NKJ)

The "survivors of Armageddon" were neither "sheep or goats" (who like the virgins and servants in the same context [Matthew 25:1-46] heard enough of the gospel to be liable to its judgment).

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They may number in the billions, but they enter Christ's kingdom still alive with their normal human bodies. But aging has stopped by God's command:



20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them.
24 "It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain," Says the LORD. (Isa. 65:19-25 NKJ)

Billions likely survive Armageddon and God doesn't slaughter them. Those who never heard the gospel sufficient to make them liable for not obeying it (as was not about the virgins, servants and sheep and goats Mt. 25:1-46 who failed to be ready for the King's return).

These unsaved billions are evangelized during the millennial kingdom and then put to one final test at the end of that kingdom:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Rev. 20:4-10 NKJ)

 

[for_his_glory]

I will concede the literal interpretation of Genesis 15:5 can refer to the many nations on earth before the millennial kingdom (Rom. 4:18)

But your claim procreation doesn't occur during the millennial kingdom is incorrect. I agree believers will have resurrection bodies like Christ's and they will not marry or be given in marriage, BUT they are Kings and Priests in Christ's kingdom and they evangelize those who enter the kingdom unsaved AFTER Armageddon.

The "survivors of Armageddon" were neither "sheep or goats" (who like the virgins and servants in the same context [Matthew 25:1-46] heard enough of the gospel to be liable to its judgment).

There will be no survivors of the battle of Armageddon as God sends fire down and destroys the enemy that surrounds the camp of the Saints as their numbers are as the numbering of the sand. We will have already been caught up to Christ to meet Him in the air when He returns on the last day before He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives to fight the final battle as He destroys all His enemies.

Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after Satan is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14; Luke 21:20-22 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

may number in the billions, but they enter Christ's kingdom still alive with their normal human bodies. But aging has stopped by God's command:

We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air on the last day we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21 Jesus descends down from heaven with His army of the host (angels) of heaven as while remaining in the air He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him. He will destroy the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire, Rev 19:15, 16. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the world leaders of every nation on the earth that have followed after the beast that rules their government. The remnant will be slain by the very words Jesus speaks of their damnation as the fowls will be filled with their flesh and at that time Satan will be chained and bound so he can not interfere with the ungodly people that are still alive on earth that become the footstool of Christ. Then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and He shall reign for ever and the saints will begin to rule over the nations here on earth, Rev 11:15; 5:10; 20:1-3; Matthew 5:5.

Billions likely survive Armageddon and God doesn't slaughter them. Those who never heard the gospel sufficient to make them liable for not obeying it (as was not about the virgins, servants and sheep and goats Mt. 25:1-46 who failed to be ready for the King's return).

These unsaved billions are evangelized during the millennial kingdom and then put to one final test at the end of that kingdom:

Sorry my friend, but when Christ returns the door of God's salvation will be closed forever as there are no second chances.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

On your website endtimenews.net you had a good testimony going, but then you broke off of it with calling yourself a Cessationalist. It plays like that of the foolish Galatians as who bewitched you to fall from truth. Who is your Pastor or who teaches these doctrines to you as they do not line up with scripture as they try to make scripture line up with what they believe.

It took only one woman Madalyn Murray O'Hair to stop prayer in school fighting against Christians being an atheist just like it took one man Benjamin Warfield who died in 1921 to create the belief that miracles, gifts, apostles and prophets ended with the first apostles and the completion of scripture because of the fake miracles of the Catholic church with the statue of Mary crying what was to be real blood, but was fake blood.

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

Please do not think I am coming against you or judging you in what you believe, but just trying to show you how Benjamin Warfield based his theory about the miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit teaching they ended with the apostles just because he saw the fake blood, calling it grape juice, coming out of the eyes and hands of the statue of Mary. Other than Catholics we know it was fake. It's always a good thing to look into researching all the "ism's" that man has created so one is not deceived into believing the lies of deceptive teachings.

 

[Alfred Persson]

There are three heavens. Who could ever measure them for they are infinite within God's creation of them. Sorry, but no one is going to populate the universe. You would have to show your source for that.

First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.


Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.


Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).​

I will answer the rest of your reply later

If man were restricted to the earth alone, then why does the entire creation eagerly await the "revealing of the sons of God"?

For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. (Rom. 8:19 NKJ)

While I cannot think of a Bible text that says the Universe is our playground, that seems to be the most likely reason for its existence. Eternity is a long time, to suppose our desire to explore would be limited to exploring the earth for all eternity seems like a cruelty.

As for the "highest heaven" being in the same time and space as "heaven", that fits Newtonian physics but not scripture. God is omnipresent, not far away beyond where our telescopes can see:



27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.' (Acts 17:27-28 NKJ)



When angels or men transit to or from "heaven" (a "parallel realm") they do so through dimensional portals:

Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. (Gen. 28:12 NKJ)

Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Ki. 2:11 NKJ)

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1 NKJ)

To sum up, scripture reveals we live in a meta-universe that exists in the infinite Mind of Christ. As the Word of God, Christ gives the meta-verse and all the finite creatures within it "concrete reality" by "verbalizing the thoughts of God", so it becomes the "matrix" of "heaven and earth where angels and men live":

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Col. 1:15-17 NKJ)

Both the "heaven of angels" and "earth of men" share the same "time and space", but a thin dimensional barrier separates the two. One can transit between the two realms through a "dimensional portal."

That "heavens" is also called "third heaven" in scripture. Context alone determines if "third heaven" refers to the physical realm of men, or what ancient cosmology thought of as "the spiritual realm."

 

[for_his_glory]

If man were restricted to the earth alone, then why does the entire creation eagerly await the "revealing of the sons of God"?

For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. (Rom. 8:19 NKJ)

While I cannot think of a Bible text that says the Universe is our playground, that seems to be the most likely reason for its existence. Eternity is a long time, to suppose our desire to explore would be limited to exploring the earth for all eternity seems like a cruelty.

As for the "highest heaven" being in the same time and space as "heaven", that fits Newtonian physics but not scripture. God is omnipresent, not far away beyond where our telescopes can see:



27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.' (Acts 17:27-28 NKJ)



When angels or men transit to or from "heaven" (a "parallel realm") they do so through dimensional portals:

Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. (Gen. 28:12 NKJ)

I will reply to only this part of your post as the rest contains a few different topics that need there own thread.

It would do you well to read the full context instead of trying to force one verse to fit your theory. Romans 8:18-30 is about our future glory after we are redeemed by/through Christ in whom is our hope of glory even though we have never seen Him face to face.

There is no scripture that says the Universe is our playground so what is your source other than the imagination of your mind or what someone else has taught you.

Eternity is forever without end for those who are Christ own and those who are damned, but our eternity is with Christ Jesus in the New Jerusalem after this present heaven and earth are passed away and a new heaven and earth establish as then will God usher down the New Jerusalem forever.

The only way to explore the infinite universe, except the third heaven, one would have to travel in a spaceship in order to explore it, but could never exhaust the expansion of it. Your theory is not rational as it could never happen.

I already gave you the scriptures about the three heavens described in scripture as no one can see the Spiritual realm of God that is the third heaven. Man can not transit to or from heaven as there is no such thing as dimensional portals between heaven and earth other than SCI-FY.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The rest about Elijah and Jacobs ladder will not be discussed in this thread as that has nothing to do with the OP, but you can start a new thread on that.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I will reply to only this part of your post as the rest contains a few different topics that need there own thread.

It would do you well to read the full context instead of trying to force one verse to fit your theory. Romans 8:18-30 is about our future glory after we are redeemed by/through Christ in whom is our hope of glory even though we have never seen Him face to face.

There is no scripture that says the Universe is our playground so what is your source other than the imagination of your mind or what someone else has taught you.

Eternity is forever without end for those who are Christ own and those who are damned, but our eternity is with Christ Jesus in the New Jerusalem after this present heaven and earth are passed away and a new heaven and earth establish as then will God usher down the New Jerusalem forever.

The only way to explore the infinite universe, except the third heaven, one would have to travel in a spaceship in order to explore it, but could never exhaust the expansion of it. Your theory is not rational as it could never happen.

I already gave you the scriptures about the three heavens described in scripture as no one can see the Spiritual realm of God that is the third heaven. Man can not transit to or from heaven as there is no such thing as dimensional portals between heaven and earth other than SCI-FY.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The rest about Elijah and Jacobs ladder will not be discussed in this thread as that has nothing to do with the OP, but you can start a new thread on that.

Frankly, your view of life with God in eternity seems dreadfully boring, an existence that doesn't even come close to this:

9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. (1 Cor. 2:9-10 NKJ)


For example, God revealed to Paul:

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (Rom. 1:20 NKJ)

God revealed Himself through His creation, and that is possible only where intelligent life can appreciate the revelation.

It therefore logically follows from God creating a infinite universe filled with testimony of His glory and power, and man with the intellectual capacity who can appreciate the revelation, that man will venture out into the farthest reaches of His creation when categorizing the various ways God has revealed His excellencies. And then we will gladly share that revelation with others interested in those things, in a community enjoying life to its fullness.

Every physical and intellectual pursuit that man loves will exist in the New Heavens and New Earth.

That logically follows from God giving us the physical and intellectual capacity to do those things. Just as you put wheels on a car so it can roll on them from place to place, so also you create free will creatures who enjoy undertaking various intellectual and physical challenges, because that is what you want them to do, enjoy life to the fullest doing those challenges they love to do.


The idea we will be earth bound, not doing everything that brings us feelings of joy, wonder and accomplishment, is a dark view of eternity I would opt out of. No way I want to be bored to death for all eternity.

If your view of eternity is correct, I beg God kill me now and spare me the torture.


Thanks be to God it was revealed to Paul and then to us, you are not even remotely correct----contrary to a tedious boring and uneventful life:


it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

Eternity with God will be far better than the best things I can imagine, and I can imagine a lot.

 

[eddif]

it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

Eternity with God will be far better than the best things I can imagine, and I can imagine a lot.

for_his_glory is not discussing eternity. Time ends before eternity begins. The discussion is
Revelation 20:1-3

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Frankly, your view of life with God in eternity seems dreadfully boring, an existence that doesn't even come close to this:

So you think that being in the presence of God and enjoying all the beauty within the New Jerusalem is going to be boring..........WOW!!! Have you ever read Revelation 21-22 as there will be nothing boring of our eternity within the walls. Why would anyone even think about leaving the beauty of the New Jerusalem and the glorious presence of God to go explore a dark vast universe.

Every physical and intellectual pursuit that man loves will exist in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Can you explain what these physical and intellectual pursuits will be in the New Jerusalem?

The idea we will be earth bound, not doing everything that brings us feelings of joy, wonder and accomplishment, is a dark view of eternity I would opt out of. No way I want to be bored to death for all eternity.

If your view of eternity is correct, I beg God kill me now and spare me the torture.

We will no longer be living on this corrupted present earth as all things will be made new again before the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven after the 1000 years.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Eternity with God will be far better than the best things I can imagine, and I can imagine a lot.

I agree that eternity with God will be better than anything we could ever imagine it to be.

I agree as you do imagine a lot especially when you think we can travel through portals throughout the universe.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not the way I read it.

Then you need to go back and read the OP as the topic of this thread is about the Millennium as I ask for others thoughts on this. Anything else will be deleted as being off topic from this point on. If you want to talk about travel through and infinite universe and portals please start your own thread.

 

[Alfred Persson]

So you think that being in the presence of God and enjoying all the beauty within the New Jerusalem is going to be boring..........WOW!!! Have you ever read Revelation 21-22 as there will be nothing boring of our eternity within the walls. Why would anyone even think about leaving the beauty of the New Jerusalem and the glorious presence of God to go explore a dark vast universe.

Can you explain what these physical and intellectual pursuits will be in the New Jerusalem?


We will no longer be living on this corrupted present earth as all things will be made new again before the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven after the 1000 years.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I agree that eternity with God will be better than anything we could ever imagine it to be.

I agree as you do imagine a lot especially when you think we can travel through portals throughout the universe.

People visit Jerusalem, live elsewhere. If New Jerusalem will be the only place the redeemed live, why create a New Heavens and New Earth? If your theory is correct only New Jerusalem should exist.

I never said New Jerusalem will be boring, but even a gilded cage is just a cage. I don't believe God would bother creating a New Heavens and New Earth with New Jerusalem at its center, if He didn't intend people outside the city stream into it through it open gates:

24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there).
26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. (Rev. 21:24-26 NKJ)

Frankly, billions are not city people. They would want to climb mountains, swim oceans, fly friendly skies, throughout the universe in the New Heavens. But you have them trapped behind city walls, no matter how glorious the city would be, that is not the liberty all creation is waiting to see revealed in the sons of God:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
(Rom. 8:19-22 NKJ)

 

[for_his_glory]

People visit Jerusalem, live elsewhere. If New Jerusalem will be the only place the redeemed live, why create a New Heavens and New Earth? If your theory is correct only New Jerusalem should exist.

Not a theory my friend, but what scripture says as all things will be made new again.


Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

A vast cube of 12,000 furlongs equals around 1400 square miles which is ruffly 3/4 the size of America and the walls of the New Jerusalem are 144 cubits which equals 216 feet high on all four sides. Not everyone will enter as many are called, but few are chosen, Mat 22:14.

 

[for_his_glory]

I never said New Jerusalem will be boring, but even a gilded cage is just a cage. I don't believe God would bother creating a New Heavens and New Earth with New Jerusalem at its center, if He didn't intend people outside the city stream into it through it open gates:

You said my view of the New Jerusalem would be boring because we can not go exploring outside the gates. My question is why would we want to as I would never want to leave once being in the presence of the Lord and all the beauty there in. Here is what is outside the gates and can never enter in. Why would you feel like living in the New Jerusalem, especially the size of it, would be confining.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Those that are without the gates have been judged after the Millennium and will have been cast into the lake of fire never seeing the New Jerusalem being ushered down. Being a new heaven and earth as the old will have passed away no one knows if the new earth will be smaller then this present one or not.

I can not find anywhere in scripture where anyone will walk in and out of the gates once we are there. If anyone knows of a scripture please let me know.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You said my view of the New Jerusalem will be boring because we can not go exploring outside the gates. Here is what is outside the gates and can never enter in.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Those that are without the gates have been judged after the Millennium and will have been cast into the lake of fire never seeing the New Jerusalem being ushered down. Being a new heaven and earth as the old will have passed away no one knows if the new earth will be smaller then this present one or not.

I can not find anywhere in scripture where anyone will walk in and out of the gates once we are there. If anyone knows of a scripture please let me know.

I quoted the verse, this time I'll bold the words: Nations bring their glory into the city walking through its gates:

24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there).
26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. (Rev. 21:24-26 NKJ)

Therefore, outside the city are both nations that BRING their glory through its gates, and another place where the wicked are tormented. Both exist "outside the city".

 

[for_his_glory]

Frankly, billions are not city people. They would want to climb mountains, swim oceans, fly friendly skies, throughout the universe in the New Heavens. But you have them trapped behind city walls, no matter how glorious the city would be, that is not the liberty all creation is waiting to see revealed in the sons of God:

Who said it's going to be a city like the ones here on earth and who is to say there will be no mountains, although there will be no more seas and can only assume no oceans as they will be polluted during the first six trumpets. (That's another thread) I don't think there will be any planes, trains or automobiles in the New Jerusalem as there will be no need of them, plus things like gas stations, any kind of stores or even restaurants. All things will pass away and all things become new again as it was in the beginning.

 

[for_his_glory]

I quoted the verse, this time I'll bold the words: Nations bring their glory into the city walking through its gates:

24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there).
26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. (Rev. 21:24-26 NKJ)

Therefore, outside the city are both nations that BRING their glory through its gates, and another place where the wicked are tormented. Both exist "outside the city".

I agree the lake of fire is without the walls in outer darkness, but the nations that enter into the gates are kings and priest from all over the world that have been caught up to Christ at the beginning of the millennium being all of us who are Christ own that the Father gave Him.

BTW scripture never states anyone that walks out of the gates once they enter in.

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

After that of the beast, false prophet and all those political leaders from every nation have been revealed and destroyed by the brightness of Christ coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Satan is bound for a thousand years as he can no longer deceive the nations anymore and after the thousand years are fulfilled he will be set loose for a small amount of time.​

There are various teachings about the thousand years, but I do not see the thousand years being literal after Satan is bound even though a thousand is written. I believe it is symbolic or figurative number like that of Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:3-5; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Satan will be held back for a time while Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives. What else is to take place within a literal thousand years that will need to be fulfilled as the only thing left is for Satan to be loosed for a time as he gathers all nations for the final battle against the saints, but his army will be consumed by fire that God sends down from heaven and then Satan cast into the lake of fire. Why would God wait a thousand years for His final judgment? What else could possibly take place during a thousand years before God ushers down the New Jerusalem?


​

The 1000 year period mentioned in Revelation is about the residents of the promised land. The kingdom promised to Abraham's seed. Not much is written in Revelation about that kingdom other than those who are killed for thier testimony of Jesus reigning with Christ in his kingdom.
Ezekiel 38_39 also wrote of that same time period just before Gog tries to conquered the everlasting kingdom. If I remember correctly,Ezekiel also wrote about the first resurection to before those two chapters. It's about Israel's resurection which is the first resurection.

Ezekiel 37:13 - The Valley of Dry Bones

Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.

biblehub.com

 

[eddif]

The 1000 year period mentioned in Revelation is about the residents of the promised land. The kingdom promised to Abraham's seed. Not much is written in Revelation about that kingdom other than those who are killed for thier testimony of Jesus reigning with Christ in his kingdom.
Ezekiel 38_39 also wrote of that same time period just before Gog tries to conquered the everlasting kingdom. If I remember correctly,Ezekiel also wrote about the first resurection to before those two chapters. It's about Israel's resurection which is the first resurection.

Ezekiel 37:13 - The Valley of Dry Bones

Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.

biblehub.com

You probably would not recognize what your comments sound like in my head, but you gave me something to think about.

eddif

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You probably would not recognize what your comments sound like in my head, but you gave me something to think about.

eddif

Im not very good with words so hopefully I didn't make it confusing. I'm bad for that.

 

[eddif]

Im not very good with words so hopefully I didn't make it confusing. I'm bad for that.

When we first see a vision we tend to insert our preconceived thoughts as meaning. By the time it becomes a dream the man may be old.

Young men see a vision, old men dream dreams.

eddif

 

[ezrider]

,Ezekiel also wrote about the first resurection to before those two chapters. It's about Israel's resurection which is the first resurection.
Ezekiel 37:13 Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.

This was already fulfilled.

Matthew 27:50-54
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.