Revelation is a Lie?!?

Yes, Jesus will come again. Yes there is a period of the Mark of the Beast, where normal social activity is excluded. Yes, Jesus will stand outside the gates of his own church. Yes, there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth.

Actually, I believe Jesus already has come again, and is among us. The "last days" if you will, come in each generation to test us as Christians, before we are raised again. The "Mark of the Beast" occurs whenever the state takes over completely. It happened under Communism, it happened under Nazis, it is happening again (COVID masks and vaccines). However, the Revelation prophecy is actually a big hoax against Christians by Jews and Romans.
The HyperTexts John of Patmos: Errors, Contradictions and False Prophecies
Hint 1: Much of it is written more like Jewish literature. Case in point, the 30 minutes of silence? Something Jews would know about as it is when the incense is burned in the Temple. (Largely Gentile) Christians would know literally nothing of this, but any Jew would be able to explain it. Ditto for many of the strange prophetic images.
Hint 2: Jesus in Revelation (his name might as well be in scare quotes) is depicted as holding an iron rod, and called a "morning star." That's the name for Lucifer, the false light of the world. Also, the iron rod is a depiction of absolute power. Iron is forged by warlords in weapons of war and destruction. "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in authority over them call themselves benefactors. But you shall not be like them. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who leads like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines? But I am among you as one who serves."
Hint 3: The intense brutality of this 'Jesus' against sinners. Yes, the secular world does some seriously bad stuff, as consequence of their decision to be ruled by kings and not by God. Yet God allowed them to do this. Yes, there may be a breaking point. But this action and its responsibility is to struggle against the "powers and principalities" not "flesh and blood." The state of Babylon will indeed fall, as the state of Israel fell in the Old Testament. Yes, Christians will be put to persecution, time and again. But Jesus said, "And if any man hear my sayings, and keep them not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Jesus did not condemn the sinner, he did not even condemn the Pharisee (though he gave them a hard time). In fact, this is why Jesus was betrayed by the crowd, because they expected him to be a liberator or freedom fighter, not someone to forgive others on the cross.
Hint 4: Christians are condemned for having the Mark. Yeah, it is seriously bad news to have a society based around the Mark of the Beast (I heard today of a man who was denied a heart transplant for being unvaccinated). But "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: 'For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." How then can a manmade device separate us? This is what really deceives the elect, that anything on this Earth can make us apart from God. But neither will I swear any loyalty to this false world and its stupid rules.
Hint 5: Likewise, Christians are condemned for unclean food, adultery, or worship of idols. No more than normal. Jesus said on two occasions that what enters a person could not corrupt, only what comes out of a person.
Hint 6.66: Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!" Yet John (if that is John, since I read 3 John and the writing style seems different) teaches that grace is not sufficient for salvation, but avoiding a Mark, avoiding sin, and being utterly perfect during this time. But all this works theology is not in line with the Gospel. "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

So here this "Jesus" comes along, and supposedly nukes all the non-Christians, then there are supposedly 1000 years of "peace", where "Satan" will be locked up, yet somehow there is no grace during this time. No sin of any kind will be allowed, and people will try to die but cannot. I'm probably mixing up passages, but you get the idea. We should trust what we know of Jesus, and trust that Jesus does allow evil in this world, because evil is part of God's plan. One day, suffering will fall away. Not free will. A careful reading of Genesis reveals that knowledge of Good and Evil was an intentional gift, not a sin. There is no possible way that God could have forbidden in by putting it (1) dead center in the garden of Eden, (2) not making the fruit out of reach, or (3) not having anyone or anything to guard it.

It think that's everything I want to say.

 

[ezrider]

But I think a better question would be: If the 'he' of verse 27 is a prince of a people to come (an anti-christ) then what "covenant" is he confirming/strengthening?

Before I ever came to Christ, before I had ever read the Bible, I read a book called the Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey. It was there that I was first introduced to all this end times prophecy stuff and of course this seven year covenant with the antichrist. So naturally, when I first read the Bible, my mind was already inclined to see these prophecies as ones foretelling the antichrist. Every bible study I had ever heard kept reinforcing this belief in a seven year covenant with the antichrist, and thus I was inclined to look for the antichrist.

But years later later during a time of upheaval, I heard a voice in my mind say return to your first love, and so for a long time, I would not read anything from the scripture other than the red letters and the gospels. I only want to know and hear the words of Christ. Yet Jesus said the law and the prophets spoke of Him, so the Spirit of the Lord led me to Deuteronomy 18, and showed me in the law where is spoke of him,

The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

From there, the Spirit of the Lord began showing me in the law and the prophets the promises of His new covenant. It was then that the scripture was made clear to me that it was Christ, Messiah the Prince who would confirm his new covenant with the people for a week, and in the midst he would be crucified, causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease.


The question I had for you was, I was wondering if you might know when this false doctrine of the antichrist making a covenant first appeared? I am not one who is extremely familiar with ancient or modern church histories and their doctrines; but because of this thread, I tried doing a quick search using Google, and apparently Martin Luther also held that Daniel 9:27 was a prophecy about the Messiah and the New Covenant.

 

[christian1724]

Every bible study I had ever heard kept reinforcing this belief in a seven year covenant with the antichrist, and thus I was inclined to look for the antichrist.

Same here. One difficult thing for me to accomplish was the ridding of a fair portion of the common doctrines that I had absorbed over my childhood and young adult years. Was it difficult for you as it was for me in overcoming my assumptions that 'the chosen people of the LORD GOD, the Jews' were going to enter into deep covenant with satan for 7 years? So much of that was a tangled web of confusion, well, for me anyway.

The question I had for you was, I was wondering if you might know when this false doctrine of the antichrist making a covenant first appeared?

I had that same question. I've heard the 7 year covenant teaching all my life. I did loosely look into a while back but I don't think I found an answer for that. Seems like I read that it wasn't as old of a teaching as I had guessed it to be, 1800s maybe. I may take another stab at that question one day.

The book of Daniel was sealed till the time of the end. The book itself makes it clear that it is sealed until the end of days at which time Daniel would rise up. I think it is starting to rise up in recent years and people are beginning to see the unsealing of it. Praise God for that.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

 

[ezrider]

Was it difficult for you as it was for me in overcoming my assumptions that 'the chosen people of the LORD GOD, the Jews' were going to enter into deep covenant with satan for 7 years? So much of that was a tangled web of confusion, well, for me anyway.

I would have to say no, not really. Like I said, the Spirit of the Lord showed me in the law and the prophets the two covenants. To hear someone say the Jews were going to enter into covenant with satan is not surprising to me, nor was it too difficult to overcome; as it was the first covenant, the one made with Israel before Mt Horeb, that the prophet declared to be a covenant with Death.


Isaiah 28:13-19
But the word of the LORD was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken.
Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men,
that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death,
and with hell are we at agreement;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us:
for we have made lies our refuge,
and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
he that believeth shall not make haste.
Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.
From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you:
for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night:
and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

 

[ezrider]

The book of Daniel was sealed till the time of the end. The book itself makes it clear that it is sealed until the end of days at which time Daniel would rise up. I think it is starting to rise up in recent years and people are beginning to see the unsealing of it. Praise God for that.

I would have to say no, not really. Like I said, the Spirit of the Lord showed me in the law and the prophets the two covenants.

Let me expound a bit on my no, not really. It's funny you should mention Daniel being sealed. During my time of upheaval, I questioned everything I was taught. Prior to that I studied the scriptures daily, using a Strong's Concordance for deeper understanding, etc. But afterward, the only thing I could read were the Red Letters. When I tried to read or study anything else, it was like the pages of the book became blank to me, as if the words of the book had been shut up. I stopped trying to study the Bible for myself, for more than a decade it remained that way. To this day, I will not pick up and study the scriptures try to teach myself anything related to end times. In my Faith, I have found that to be a fruitless endeavor; I have learned to wait upon the Spirit of the Lord to teach me and lead me into the scriptures.

Shut up the words, seal the book, even til the time of the end. Only Christ has been found worthy to loose the seal thereof, yet people shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. There is the knowledge of the Law and the knowledge of SIN that has increased, which has caused the love of many to wax cold, running to and fro looking for an antichrist. There are those who are not running to and fro, but have rather come into their rest, that they might come to the knowledge of the Glory of the Lord.

Those running to and fro: Jesus taught of them in the parable of the unwise virgins.

Amos 8:11-13
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
that I will send a famine in the land,
not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of the LORD:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

 

[christian1724]

Let me expound a bit on my no, not really. It's funny you should mention Daniel being sealed. During my time of upheaval, I questioned everything I was taught.

I think it's ok to do that. I think people should do that. It's not His Word at question, but our understanding of it. I should expound a little myself.

Prior to that I studied the scriptures daily, using a Strong's Concordance for deeper understanding, etc. But afterward, the only thing I could read were the Red Letters. ... To this day, I will not pick up and study the scriptures try to teach myself anything related to end times. In my Faith, I have found that to be a fruitless endeavor; I have learned to wait upon the Spirit of the Lord to teach me and lead me into the scriptures.

I've got the Strong's and Interlinear Bibles too. Like you, I at least initially, was drawn to the Jesus' messages and the prophets. I still study them, not as much as I should or would like. I also will listen to anyone who can provide Truth, at least, insofar as I am able to understand/receive it.

Shut up the words, seal the book, even til the time of the end. Only Christ has been found worthy to loose the seal thereof, yet people shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. ...

Yes, the Lamb is the Word of God. Only the Word of God is able to loose the seals. That's why I advocate for reading Luke 11.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? : 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Armed with that powerful information, I've prayed that He guides me to understanding of His Word for it is the Word that is able to loose the seals. Fortunately, He is bound by His own Word (such as quoted above) and will at some point provide me with understanding of scripture that contains contains His Word. But it's up to me to begin studying it. I begin studying the parts I am most interested in hoping that He will lead me to understanding those parts first. But, I'll accept any enlightenment He has for me and from any source that He provides it. I'm pretty picky though what I incorporate into my beliefs/worldview.

... Those running to and fro: Jesus taught of them in the parable of the unwise virgins.

Amos 8:11-13 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

Christ chose apostles to go forth and spread His Word unto His people (though not everyone is able to hear those messengers. The Words there, but the famine is for lack of being able to hear/understand them. For instance:

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

... but even then, God provided a remedy, and it was a woman of Canaan who used it to handily extract what she needed through her Faithing.

My personal belief is that it's alright to seek help outside of the canonized or otherwise 'official' sources. I don't know who He might be providing to me as an apostle of His Word. I try to be wary but at the same time I'll take who I can get. (Gene Scott for example, LOL ... ahmmm, RIP)

For every malady brought upon man, God also provides a remedy. That malady may take some seeking but it does exist.

Well, that's sorta describes my method of seeking. Sorry if it was a little lengthy, better cut it off here.

 

[Goldwing]

I think you are confusing Jews with Israelites. It is a very common mistake among Christians throughout the ages. It also tends to eliminate the possibility of understanding prophecy. Yes, true Jews are Israelites, but only a fraction of Israelites are Jews.

Oh wow, my wife and I just saw a Bald Eagle perched in a tree outside our window!

please inform me how you define a "Jewish Israelite" vs., a Israelite?

 

[Goldwing]

The book of Daniel was sealed till the time of the end. The book itself makes it clear that it is sealed until the end of days at which time Daniel would rise up. I think it is starting to rise up in recent years and people are beginning to see the unsealing of it. Praise God for that.

 

[Goldwing]

The book of Dan., contains story's of faith, and apocalyptic prophecy. Both have been read since the book has been written, therefore, we can't say they have been sealed up until the time of the end. So what do you think God has kept hidden in this book until the end shall arrive?

 

[christian1724]

please inform me how you define a "Jewish Israelite" vs., a Israelite?

Because of His displeasure with Solomon, God split the kingdom of Israel in two after his rule, the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

The term Jews is first used in the Bible as a reference to the people of the house of Judah. It is made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.

The house of Israel is made up of the other 10 tribes. Ephraim and Manasseh keep the name 'Israel' as a part of their inheritance. Genesis 48:16

Collectively, all of the tribes are often called/referred to as Israel or Jacob ... but 'Jews' refer to those who are of the house of Judah.

 

[christian1724]

The book of Dan., contains story's of faith, and apocalyptic prophecy. Both have been read since the book has been written, therefore, we can't say they have been sealed up until the time of the end. So what do you think God has kept hidden in this book until the end shall arrive?

I would like to know that. I believe we are very near the time of the end. For that reason, I think that we are on the verge of understanding the book more properly.

With that in mind, if you are not understanding the prophecies of this book as commonly taught then does it stand to reason that either you are lacking eyes to see and ears to hear or the book is still sealed (or at least partially)? For the sake of all of us, I hope it is not the former.

There may be some common teachings about portions of Daniel that I don't think can stand up to scrutiny. One of them is the commonly taught 'broken seven year peace covenant' between the Jews and an anti-christ (Daniel 9:27). There is just so much that is objectively odd or confusing about that doctrine, at least the way that it is being taught.

 

[Goldwing]

I would like to know that. I believe we are very near the time of the end. For that reason, I think that we are on the verge of understanding the book more properly.

With that in mind, if you are not understanding the prophecies of this book as commonly taught then does it stand to reason that either you are lacking eyes to see and ears to hear or the book is still sealed (or at least partially)? For the sake of all of us, I hope it is not the former.

There may be some common teachings about portions of Daniel that I don't think can stand up to scrutiny. One of them is the commonly taught 'broken seven year peace covenant' between the Jews and an anti-christ (Daniel 9:27). There is just so much that is objectively odd or confusing about that doctrine, at least the way that it is being taught.

I'll pass this info along, since you are thinking along the right pathway to understanding. I hope it makes sense to you as it does to me and others.

Faulty Interpretations until Daniel is Unsealed
The book of Daniel contains 533 sentences. Daniel wrote the book about twenty-six centuries ago, but unlike the other sixty- five books in the Bible, the book of Daniel was sealed up “until the time of the end.” The angel, Gabriel, said to Daniel, “. . .Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.”3 The phrase, “Closed up and sealed until the time of the end” means that God hid something in the book of Daniel that would remain “top secret” until the time of the end arrived. I am convinced that the book of Daniel has been unsealed and the time of the end has arrived.


The secret information that God encoded into the book of Daniel is something like the “Rosetta Stone.” French soldiers accidently discovered and unearthed a stone in 1799 near Rosetta, Egypt. The stone bore a message written during the second century B.C. The message was written in two forms of Egyptian script – demotic and hieroglyphic. When archeologists examined the rock, they were thrilled because the inscriptions would help solve a very perplexing mystery. Prior to 1799, archeologists could not read many clay tablets that had been unearthed because no one could decipher the hieroglyphics. When the Rosetta Stone was discovered and trans- lated, the demotic inscriptions on the stone enabled Thomas Young (1773-1829) and J.F. Champollion (1790-1832) to decipher the hieroglyphics of ancient Egyptians. In a similar way, God buried a set of four self-evident rules in the book of Daniel 2,600 years ago. By God’s grace, I accidently stumbled into this buried treasure. (Of course, the passage of time will prove or disprove the validity of my claim.)

These four rules of interpretation shattered my prophetic thinking and I believe in due time they will shatter centuries of prophetic exposition and tradition. Because these four rules have been discovered, I believe that most previous prophetic interpretations are faulty and incomplete. In fact, after I began to personally apply the four rules in my study, they destroyed my own prophetic understanding which was faulty and incomplete. (Even after many years of study and effort since my discovery of the four rules, my conformity to the four rules remains a work in progress.) The four rules buried in the book of Daniel govern four prophetic components: God’s use of time, language, chronology, and fulfllment. I believe God I heart rejoice to see it, while those defending the traditions of their elders will rise up and punish those who embrace it. Jesus said to His disciples, “They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.”4 I know the parable of the math teacher is silly, but the moral of the story is consistently true. Jesus said, “Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. . .”5

Three Levels of Information
As you might expect, God buried His secrets within the book of Daniel very well. However, when God wants truth to be revealed, He enables ordinary men and women to discover the extraordinary things He has hidden. Through the ages, we find this discovery process at work: On or about the time of fulfillment, elements of prophecy are understood. For example, when the day came to understand the timing of Christ’s birth, wise men from the East figured it out.6 The apostle Paul also noticed the phenomenon of advancing truth. Consider his words: Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written brie y. In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.”7
The book of Daniel offers three levels of knowledge. They are:
Dramatic stories of faith

1. Visions revealing God’s plans
2. Apocalyptic architecture

The Book Unsealed
The third (and deepest) level of knowledge found within the book of Daniel is the architecture of apocalyptic prophecy. The prophecies in Daniel conform to a structure or pattern that controls their timing and meaning. This structure also exists in Revelation! In other words, when we understand how the architecture of Daniel functions, we will immediately understand how the architecture in Revelation functions!


Daniel’s architecture produces four self-evident rules. These four rules are like a combination to a safe. When the four rules are properly applied, the door to understanding swings open and the prophecies make perfect sense! This point is extremely important. Portions of Daniel and much of Revelation have been a mystery for centuries. Now that the rules are available, both books make sense just as they read.


When the four rules found in Daniel are applied to Daniel and Rev- elation, a comprehensive story unfolds that is completely harmonious with everything the Bible reveals about God’s love, character, and ways. Even more fascinating, all of the details in each prophecy perfectly harmonize and they synchronize with other prophecies describing the same event. The four rules force all of the propheccies in Daniel and Revelation into a huge matrix that organizes events in an orderly, timely, and predictable manner.

To visualize this matrix, think of the seventeen prophecies in Daniel and Revelation as a wedding cake having seventeen layers. The foundation pieces are the largest pieces and naturally, they are found at the bottom of the cake. Smaller layers are stacked on top of the larger layers. In Daniel and Revelation, the toothpicks that hold the seventeen layers of the cake together represent specific events that hold and align the seventeen layers. The “toothpick events” are important because two or more prophecies often de- scribe the same prophetic event. Because the same event is de- scribed in two different ways within two different layers (prophecies), a precise alignment of the prophecies is not only possible, but also essential for understanding the big picture.

Private Interpretation
I consider an interpretation of prophecy which does not conform
to valid rules as a “private interpretation.” The word “private”
as used in this context does not mean obscure. Millions of people believe and endorse a private interpretation. A private interpretation is an interpretation that cannot be tested with valid rules. Of course, every person is free to believe whatever he wants to believe, but our beliefs have nothing to do with God’s actions. Most of the world did not believe it would rain in Noah’s day, but it had no affect on God’s action.


The joy of every Bible student is to search for “the whole truth and nothing but the truth!” Even if we have valid rules of interpretation, we have no guarantee that we will correctly apply them. Said another way, it is one thing to know the laws that govern algebra, but it is another matter to correctly solve algebraic problems. When valid rules of interpretation are used, the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation will make sense just as they read, because the Bible is its own interpreter. On the other hand, a private interpretation requires a promoter, an interpreter – someone having superior knowledge or authority. A private interpretation produces a layer of explanation that separates the student from the Bible. Valid rules do not require an interpreter and allow the Bible to speak for itself.

 

[Goldwing]

Consider again the difference between art and science. A private interpretation (art) makes it all but impossible for people to independently arrive at the same conclusion without the coaxing of a guide or interpreter. A valid set of rules (science) enables people to arrive at a similar conclusion without knowing anyone else or listening to an expositor. Many Christians believe whatever their leaders say about prophecy without actually validating the conclusions for themselves. Lay people usually “go along” because they have no solutions of their own, and their church organization endorses a particular view which aligns with church doctrines and paradigms. Because the average Christian does not study prophecy and the subject of Bible prophecy is complicated, it is just easier to play “follow the leader.” What do you think? Should the Bible speak for itself or should it have an interpreter? I have concluded after many years of study that the Bible does indeed speak for itself and the Bible is its own interpreter. I do not accept the idea that external authority exists or that it is even necessary.



Who but God Has the Authority to Declare Chronological Order?

The visions within Daniel behave in a predictable way. Once this behavior is detected, it keeps us on track. It helps us decipher prophecies and enlightens us with information that we could not otherwise know. For example, one consistent behavior that occurs throughout the book of Daniel is that each prophecy has a beginning point and an ending point in time, and the events within each prophecy occur in the order in which they are given. This chronological behavior may sound simple, but it has profound ramifications. Consider the results of violating this behavior. If the events given within a particular prophecy do not occur in the order given, who has the authority to declare the order of events? Does anyone other than God have the authority to change the order that He created?



The chronological behavior found in Daniel’s prophecies is the basis for Rule One. I have distilled this behavior into the following words (rule): Each apocalyptic prophecy has a beginning point and an ending point in time and the events within each prophecy occur in the order they are given. Be assured, I am not inventing a rule. I am expressing a consistent behavior that recurs without exception throughout the book of Daniel (as well as the book of Revelation).



When the fulfilled elements in Daniel and Revelation are aligned with widely published historical records, the validity of Rule One proves true every time! The prophecies in Daniel began unfolding more than 2,600 years ago. Some of the prophecies in Revelation began unfolding 2,000 years ago. These lengthy periods of time contain a suficient sample to validate the four rules that spring from Daniel’s architecture. The book of Daniel also provides a historical foundation for some of the prophecies in Revelation. Since prophecies in Revelation run parallel to prophecies in Daniel we can link them together and establish the timing of events mentioned in both books. So, the use of Daniel’s architecture, like the hieroglyphics on the Rosetta Stone, enables us to resolve many prophetic mysteries that would otherwise be impossible to resolve. I have arbitrarily made the rule governing chronology “Rule One” because establishing the chronological order in each prophecy eliminates a great deal of speculation and aligning the seventeen prophecies in Daniel and Revelation is “Job One.” The importance of this rule cannot be overstated. Draw a time line on a big sheet of paper and place all of the events specified in Daniel and Revelation on this time line. If you attempt this, you will immediately confront the question of chronological order. Rule One is deceptively simple. It is also incredibly powerful. It demolishes two thousand years of prophetic speculation and tradition. Think about this: If God has not declared the chronological order of events within each apocalyptic prophecy, there is no chronological order in apocalyptic prophecy. If there is no order, apocalyptic prophecy remains in the realm of art. On the other hand, if God has declared chronological order, apocalyptic prophecy becomes a science and there is prophetic certainty (“the more sure word of prophecy”) instead of endless chaos and cancelling views.



If apocalyptic prophecy is art, everyone has the same license and authority. Everyone is permitted to define and create whatever prophetic order and interpretation they want. This ongoing process has produced a cloud of confusion and as a result, many Christians treat prophecy with contempt. Worse, there is no general agreement among Christians on the next prophetic event. When apocalyptic prophecy is regarded as art, church groups will turn to some external authority in an attempt to clarify their prophetic understanding. This authority can be the writings of founding fathers, a prophet, or even church tradition. Like the math teacher, Jesus confronted the traditions of His people and He was considered a blasphemer because the Jews put their religious traditions (art) above God’s Word (authority)!8

Because there is chronological order within apocalyptic prophecy, we can determine which prophetic event has been fulfilled and what prophetic event will come next. We have twenty-six centuries of prophetic progression and fulfillment since the book of Daniel was written. Looking backwards from our day, world history proves there is chronological order in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. This is good news because the final generation can know and understand prophecies that previous generations could not discover! Remember, God’s greatest gift to the honest in heart is greater truth. This gift will never end throughout eternity! During the Great Tribulation God will swing a powerful magnet of truth over a junk pile called Earth and the honest in heart will be attracted and captured by its power and the rest of mankind will feel nothing. This is how the sheep will be separated from the goats.



What about the Other Three Rules?

Please consider the remaining three rules. Rule Two: A prophecy or prophetic element within a prophecy is not fulfilled until all of the specifications are met. This includes the order of the events given within the prophecy. (Fulfillment)




Rule Three: Apocalyptic language can be literal, symbolic, or analogous. To reach the intended meaning of a passage, the student must consider (a) the context, (b) the use of parallel language in the Bible, and (c) a relevant text that defines the symbol if an element is thought to be symbolic. (Language)




Rule Four: The presence or absence of the Jubilee Calendar deter- mines how God measures time. If a prophetic time period occurs during the operation of the Jubilee Calendar (1437 B.C. - 1994), time is translated as a day for a year; otherwise, translation is not permitted. (See Appendix A for further study of the Jubilee Calendar.) (Timing)

There may be some common teachings about portions of Daniel that I don't think can stand up to scrutiny. One of them is the commonly taught 'broken seven year peace covenant' between the Jews and an anti-christ (Daniel 9:27). There is just so much that is objectively odd or confusing about that doctrine, at least the way that it is being taught.

I assume you are referring to the "seventy weeks"? Yes, that never made an sense to me when I was first informed that there was a gap of undetermlned time between the 69th and 70th week. Fortunately, I learned latter the true meaning of the prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 33, three yrs. after the death of Christ.

Perhaps you can appreciate the following thoughts: Many scholars and pastors have separated this prophecy from the previous three prophecies in Daniel and the result is a huge disaster. Millions of people anticipate several events that will not occur. For example, it is commonly taught that the sixty-nine weeks in Daniel 9 are in the distant past, but the seventieth week is in the future! This is impossible! Time is an unbroken continuum. When one second ends, a new second begins. There is no room for additional time between two seconds, minutes, hours, months, days, years, or weeks of years! The seventieth week began when the sixty-ninth week ended. There cannot be a gap of indefinite time between the sixty-ninth and the seventieth week. If additional time can be inserted into a prophetic time period, no one can know the length of that prophetic time period. If a yardstick does not have definite length, it cannot be used for measurement. If the seventieth week did not follow the sixty- ninth week, we cannot assign a number to the week in history that immediately followed the sixty-ninth week.

 

[ezrider]

With that in mind, if you are not understanding the prophecies of this book as commonly taught then does it stand to reason that either you are lacking eyes to see and ears to hear or the book is still sealed (or at least partially)? For the sake of all of us, I hope it is not the former.

2 Corinthians 3:12-16
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Revelation 5:4-5
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

The book remains sealed because the vail remains upon their hearts. It is the power of the Spirit of the Lord that blinds their minds when reading the old testament. Only Christ was found worthy to loose the seals thereof; no secret hidden decoder is going to reveal it for you.

The TRUTH is found in Christ. When your heart turns to Christ, and you seek after HIM, then might we begin to understand the prophecies of Daniel. The little horn of Daniel 7 can be understood as the Horn of our Salvation. The prince who makes a covenant with many in Daniel 9 can be understood as Messiah the Prince confirming the New Covenant.

But many do not seek after Christ when they read the old testament, nor when they read the book of Revelation; rather than seeking after the knowledge of Christ, they instead turn to the scripture searching for knowledge of the antichrist. If they are seeking after the antichrist, then the books will remain sealed, and I suspect very susceptible to the strong delusion promised those who wish to believe a lie.

 

[for_his_glory]

Joel 2:28-32; Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Let us not forget what Jesus said in Matthew 24 about the end of days that line up with what was already given to the Prophets in the OT.

 

[Goldwing]

Only Christ was found worthy to loose the seals thereof; no secret hidden decoder is going to reveal it for you.

I agree, only Christ was found worthy to loose the seals, on the book which He[Christ] receives from the Father. Thereafter Rev. 5, the book is called, "The lambs book of Life". Lets not confuse it with the book of Dan. which
was sealed until the time of the end.

 

[christian1724]

Only Christ was found worthy to loose the seals thereof; no secret hidden decoder is going to reveal it for you.

I agree that the book is sealed (at least partially) till the end of days. Also, I believe we are entering into the end of days (at which time the book (Daniel) will be revealed according to it's own message). I don't think we differ on that.

"Only Christ was found worthy to loose the seals..."
We believe that Christ is the Word of God.
We believe that the Word of God is reliable and steadfast, that is to say, His Word is Truth.

Now, According to His own Word, I can ask Him for understanding of His Word so long as I am doing so in an act of Faith in that Word. He is bound by His own Word, so I can expect at some point to receive an answer (He won't toss me a stone or a scorpion instead - Luke 11).

Looks like I will have to return my double secret hidden decoder. If for no other reason that you know about it. Apparently it is not so secret and hidden.

 

[christian1724]

The TRUTH is found in Christ. When your heart turns to Christ, and you seek after HIM, then might we begin to understand the prophecies of Daniel. The little horn of Daniel 7 can be understood as the Horn of our Salvation. The prince who makes a covenant with many in Daniel 9 can be understood as Messiah the Prince confirming the New Covenant.

You probably already know that I agree with that.

I think I read this on a link that I asked you to send me a while back. I won't say I agree with you on that. I have questioned that myself before for various reasons that at the time I thought were worth pursuing. I want to look at that again though to remember why I concluded that I didn't accept that.

 

[Goldwing]

I agree that the book is sealed (at least partially) till the end of days. Also, I believe we are entering into the end of days (at which time the book (Daniel) will be revealed according to it's own message). I don't think we differ on that.

I too belief as i understand you do, that the "Lambs book of Life" which the Lamb in Dan. 5, receives from the Father, which He wrote from the foundation of creation, and then sealed with seven seals, has some of it's seals opened to date. You indicates this as well, right?

How many of the seals do you understand to be opened? And according to prophecy, what is the next one to be opened? Too, I posted on Tue., for you what I belief was sealed up in the book of Dan., until the time of the end. Have you read that post, and does that seem reasonable?

I would also like to understand you both better in regard to the "Prince" of (Dan.9:25-27) You both understand the "Prince" to be the Messiah. My question to you both is what "Prince" vss. 25 or 26, "the prince that shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary? For clarity, in my regard the texts in vs. 25 is without question Christ. In vs. 26 it would be Titus, the roman general who destroyed the Holy city and sanctuary in A.D. 70. That destruction was the fulfillment of the "Seventy Week" prophecy of (Dan. 9:24-27) and was all about the "Old Covenant/ Bilateral Covenant- two side) God had made with Abrahams descendants at mount Sinai. But after nearly 1500 yrs. of back sliding God ended the "Bilateral Covenant" because Israel did not uphold their side of the covenant. It is not about the new covenant, which is a "Unilateral Covenant-one sided". In this covenant God will complete the plan of salvation independent of the cooperation of mankind. In like manner God destroyed the earth with a flood, Noah nor all that lived on the earth could have done nothing to stop it from happening once their cup of iniquity was filled, because they had no part in God's covenant to destroy the earth.

 

[christian1724]

Post#98 is an example of why we need the Edit button. LOL

Goldwing
I too belief as i understand you do, that the "Lambs book of Life" which the Lamb in Dan. 5 (Rev. 5), receives from the Father, which He wrote from the foundation of creation, and then sealed with seven seals, has some of it's seals opened to date. You indicates this as well, right?

I can't say how many of the seals, or if any for matter, have been opened yet. I don't understand or have been shown enough about the book (Revelation) to lay much claim to a general understanding of the book. I'll be happy to share some of the things that I believe I have been shown, many of which are shared by many people. In fact, that might make a good thread - "Share Your Symbolism Thoughts On Revelation/Daniel".

I could say much the same on my understanding of the book of Daniel.

I think I've learned/come across a some very eye opening understandings of certain passages and subjects in scripture which could/should cause people to re-think at least some if not much of their life long beliefs or viewpoints.

I also did have a question for you that I put in a private conversation thread. I don't know if you got that.

 

[christian1724]

Goldwing
I intend to respond on one or two other things that you mentioned. I'll do that later, God willing, but as a heads up, let me ask:

Do you believe that God has no unconditional covenants with Israel? Certainly, God made some conditional covenants, no one will argue that. But there are some covenants/prophecies/blessings that are not conditional and remain intact. Understanding what they are will force people to change the way they understand the Bible. For some, it may topple their worldview.

I'm sure we both agree that God's Word, once revealed to us, is reliable. He would surely be very displeased with us if we were to think that He was not bound by His own Word. Lets's face it, if His Word is not COMPLETELY RELIABLE then it is not Truth and we need not bother seeking and studying it.

Anyways, till then...