Revelation is a Lie?!?

Yes, Jesus will come again. Yes there is a period of the Mark of the Beast, where normal social activity is excluded. Yes, Jesus will stand outside the gates of his own church. Yes, there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth.

Actually, I believe Jesus already has come again, and is among us. The "last days" if you will, come in each generation to test us as Christians, before we are raised again. The "Mark of the Beast" occurs whenever the state takes over completely. It happened under Communism, it happened under Nazis, it is happening again (COVID masks and vaccines). However, the Revelation prophecy is actually a big hoax against Christians by Jews and Romans.
The HyperTexts John of Patmos: Errors, Contradictions and False Prophecies
Hint 1: Much of it is written more like Jewish literature. Case in point, the 30 minutes of silence? Something Jews would know about as it is when the incense is burned in the Temple. (Largely Gentile) Christians would know literally nothing of this, but any Jew would be able to explain it. Ditto for many of the strange prophetic images.
Hint 2: Jesus in Revelation (his name might as well be in scare quotes) is depicted as holding an iron rod, and called a "morning star." That's the name for Lucifer, the false light of the world. Also, the iron rod is a depiction of absolute power. Iron is forged by warlords in weapons of war and destruction. "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in authority over them call themselves benefactors. But you shall not be like them. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who leads like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines? But I am among you as one who serves."
Hint 3: The intense brutality of this 'Jesus' against sinners. Yes, the secular world does some seriously bad stuff, as consequence of their decision to be ruled by kings and not by God. Yet God allowed them to do this. Yes, there may be a breaking point. But this action and its responsibility is to struggle against the "powers and principalities" not "flesh and blood." The state of Babylon will indeed fall, as the state of Israel fell in the Old Testament. Yes, Christians will be put to persecution, time and again. But Jesus said, "And if any man hear my sayings, and keep them not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Jesus did not condemn the sinner, he did not even condemn the Pharisee (though he gave them a hard time). In fact, this is why Jesus was betrayed by the crowd, because they expected him to be a liberator or freedom fighter, not someone to forgive others on the cross.
Hint 4: Christians are condemned for having the Mark. Yeah, it is seriously bad news to have a society based around the Mark of the Beast (I heard today of a man who was denied a heart transplant for being unvaccinated). But "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: 'For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." How then can a manmade device separate us? This is what really deceives the elect, that anything on this Earth can make us apart from God. But neither will I swear any loyalty to this false world and its stupid rules.
Hint 5: Likewise, Christians are condemned for unclean food, adultery, or worship of idols. No more than normal. Jesus said on two occasions that what enters a person could not corrupt, only what comes out of a person.
Hint 6.66: Galatians 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!" Yet John (if that is John, since I read 3 John and the writing style seems different) teaches that grace is not sufficient for salvation, but avoiding a Mark, avoiding sin, and being utterly perfect during this time. But all this works theology is not in line with the Gospel. "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

So here this "Jesus" comes along, and supposedly nukes all the non-Christians, then there are supposedly 1000 years of "peace", where "Satan" will be locked up, yet somehow there is no grace during this time. No sin of any kind will be allowed, and people will try to die but cannot. I'm probably mixing up passages, but you get the idea. We should trust what we know of Jesus, and trust that Jesus does allow evil in this world, because evil is part of God's plan. One day, suffering will fall away. Not free will. A careful reading of Genesis reveals that knowledge of Good and Evil was an intentional gift, not a sin. There is no possible way that God could have forbidden in by putting it (1) dead center in the garden of Eden, (2) not making the fruit out of reach, or (3) not having anyone or anything to guard it.

It think that's everything I want to say.

 

[Goldwing]

The covenant that the Lord made with Abraham and his descendants began in Genesis 17, although Abraham heard and obeyed the call of the Gospel in Genesis 12.

Later on the law of Moses was added to that Covenant until the Messiah came, and ushered in the New (renewed) Covenant which was a renewal of the Covenant He made with Abraham and his descendants. This is why Paul speaks of us becoming children of Abraham through Christ, in which the blessing of Abraham has come upon us.


Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

• And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”

JLB

Are we in agreement then, that the covenant (bilateral) God made with Abraham and his descendants, ended at the end of the seventy wks. of Dan.9. and then under the new (unilateral) covenant God redefines the sons of Abraham as those having faith in Christ as Abraham did, and all nations shall be blessed along with faithful Abraham. Yes, No?

 

[JLB]

Are we in agreement then, that the covenant (bilateral) God made with Abraham and his descendants, ended at the end of the seventy wks.

The covenant that the Lord made with Abraham has become the New Covenant (Renewed Covenant), in which those in covenant with the Lord are to walk before Him, in His Presence, and be blameless, which is what we who in Christ are called to do today; walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.


When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2

• I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.

• Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16



And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9

• foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand

JLB

 

[JLB]

Are we in agreement then, that the covenant (bilateral) God made with Abraham and his descendants, ended at the end of the seventy wks.

The seventy weeks has not ended.


The final week, the 70th week will begin when the “prince who is to come shall confirm a covenant with many for one week”.


“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:26-27











JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

not good yet of getting around on this platform, but I found it by typing in "Why The Experts Disagree" under the "Find Threads" upper bar.

I did find it and replied.

 

[for_his_glory]

Glory. It's 2:30 am, couldn't sleep, thought I'd ask a question that's been on my mind for some time now. I live in Lincoln, ca as you may know. It's close to Sacramento. Anyway wife and I are leaving here this Monday and driving to your state, SC. Will be leaving my car there and returning by plane after two weeks. Bought a house there in Chapin, very close to Lk. Murry, last Dec. Will be selling our home here and moving there come first of Aug., after wife retires. So out of curiosity I was wondering where you live?

Lake Murry is beautiful. We like to ride our bike up there. My husband and I live about 1/2 from there in Winnsboro.

 

[Goldwing]

The seventy weeks has not ended.


The final week, the 70th week will begin when the “prince who is to come shall confirm a covenant with many for one week”.


“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:26-27
JLB

JLB, How do understand the fulfillment of this prophecy then?

Do you understand why others believe the 70th week actually followed the sixty ninth, and it ended in 33AD?

Following is the reasoning:

The Seventy Weeks Daniel 9:20-27
Beginning Point in Time: 457 B.C.

Summary: The essence of this prophecy can be summarized in a few sentences. While they were exiles in Babylon, God offered the trustees of His covenant (the nation of Israel) a second chance. He granted them 490 years (seventy weeks) to overcome their rebellion and fulfill the terms and conditions of His covenant. If Israel cooperated, the prophecies given in the book of Daniel (Plan B) would be sealed up forever (remain unknown) and the promises and prophecies given to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and other Old Testament prophets (Plan A) would be fulfilled. On the other hand, if Israel failed, Israel would be destroyed.

Introduction: Many scholars and pastors have separated this prophecy from the previous three prophecies in Daniel and the result is a huge disaster. Millions of people anticipate several events that will not occur. For example, it is commonly taught that the sixty-nine weeks in Daniel 9 are in the distant past, but the seventieth week is in the future! This is impossible! Time is an unbroken continuum. When one second ends, a new second begins. There is no room for additional time between two seconds, minutes, hours, months, days, years, or weeks of years! The seventieth week began when the sixty-ninth week ended. There cannot be a gap of indefinIte time between the sixty-ninth and the seventieth week. If additional time can be inserted into a prophetic time period, no one can know the length of that prophetic time period. If a yardstick does not have definite length, it cannot be used for measurement. If the seventieth week did not follow the sixty- ninth week, we cannot assign a number to the week in history that immediately followed the sixty-ninth week.

Thus far in this book, we have observed that (a) apocalyptic prophecy is additive in nature; each prophecy builds upon another, and (b) God uses a technique called “repetition and enlargement” to create a matrix that expands our understanding of His Word and plans. We will discover in this study that Prophecy 4 builds upon Prophecies 1 through 3 because these four prophecies depend upon each other to tell the whole story. Look at Figure 4.1 (not drawn to scale) and notice four elements. First, at the top, notice that the chart indicates that Jesus died in A.D. 30,1 which is the middle year of the seventieth week. Second, notice that 457 B.C. as the starting date for the seventy weeks (seven plus sixty-two plus one week). Third, notice the line from 457 B.C. ending at 1844. Last, notice that 1844 (the end of the 2,300 years) and 1798 (the end of the little horn’s persecution for 1,260 years) have close proximity to each other even though these dates are derived from totally different prophecies.

CONTINUED NEXT POST

 

[Goldwing]

JLB, How do understand the fulfillment of this prophecy then?

Do you understand why others believe the 70th week actually followed the sixty ninth, and it ended in 33AD?

Following is the reasoning:

The Seventy Weeks Daniel 9:20-27
Beginning Point in Time: 457 B.C.

Summary: The essence of this prophecy can be summarized in a few sentences. While they were exiles in Babylon, God offered the trustees of His covenant (the nation of Israel) a second chance. He granted them 490 years (seventy weeks) to overcome their rebellion and fulfill the terms and conditions of His covenant. If Israel cooperated, the prophecies given in the book of Daniel (Plan B) would be sealed up forever (remain unknown) and the promises and prophecies given to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and other Old Testament prophets (Plan A) would be fulfilled. On the other hand, if Israel failed, Israel would be destroyed.

Introduction: Many scholars and pastors have separated this prophecy from the previous three prophecies in Daniel and the result is a huge disaster. Millions of people anticipate several events that will not occur. For example, it is commonly taught that the sixty-nine weeks in Daniel 9 are in the distant past, but the seventieth week is in the future! This is impossible! Time is an unbroken continuum. When one second ends, a new second begins. There is no room for additional time between two seconds, minutes, hours, months, days, years, or weeks of years! The seventieth week began when the sixty-ninth week ended. There cannot be a gap of indefinIte time between the sixty-ninth and the seventieth week. If additional time can be inserted into a prophetic time period, no one can know the length of that prophetic time period. If a yardstick does not have definite length, it cannot be used for measurement. If the seventieth week did not follow the sixty- ninth week, we cannot assign a number to the week in history that immediately followed the sixty-ninth week.

Thus far in this book, we have observed that (a) apocalyptic prophecy is additive in nature; each prophecy builds upon another, and (b) God uses a technique called “repetition and enlargement” to create a matrix that expands our understanding of His Word and plans. We will discover in this study that Prophecy 4 builds upon Prophecies 1 through 3 because these four prophecies depend upon each other to tell the whole story. Look at Figure 4.1 (not drawn to scale) and notice four elements. First, at the top, notice that the chart indicates that Jesus died in A.D. 30,1 which is the middle year of the seventieth week. Second, notice that 457 B.C. as the starting date for the seventy weeks (seven plus sixty-two plus one week). Third, notice the line from 457 B.C. ending at 1844. Last, notice that 1844 (the end of the 2,300 years) and 1798 (the end of the little horn’s persecution for 1,260 years) have close proximity to each other even though these dates are derived from totally different prophecies.

CONTINUED NEXT POST

God’s Weekly Cycle
Since Jesus created the world, the first day of each week has aligned with the first day of Creation and the seventh day of each week has aligned with God’s Sabbath rest. (Genesis 2:1-3) Even though human beings may define a week as any period of seven days, God defines a week as a period of seven days that aligns with Creation’s week. (Exodus 20:8-11) God’s weekly cycle is important because the middle day of every week is Wednesday. Look again at Figure 4.1. You will see that the middle year of the seventieth week is a Wednesday year. Since Jesus died in the middle of the week, and since Jesus died in A.D. 30,2 we must align A.D. 30 with a Wednesday year. This alignment forces the first year of the seventieth week (A.D. 27) to be a Sunday year and the Sabbath year of the seventieth week becomes A.D. 33. This information about the seventy weeks is important for two reasons:

First, the seventy weeks in Daniel 9 can be precisely identified because of God’s weekly cycle of years. I understand that God created a new calendar for Israel at the time of the Exodus. (Exodus 12:2) This calendar is often called the Jubilee Calendar and it is based on God’s weekly cycle. God established a cycle of seven years so that each day of the week represented a year. To ensure the integrity of this cycle, God declared every seventh year dating from the Exodus was to be a Sabbath year of rest for the land. Of course, Israel did not observe Sabbath years in the desert. However, Israel entered Canaan in a Friday year (the 41st year since the Exodus) and their first full year in the Promised Land was a Sabbath year; much like Adam and Eve’s first full day of life was a Sabbath day. The Jubilee Calendar measures time in units of forty-nine year cycles (seven weeks of years). When a forty-nine year cycle expired, the following year was declared a year of Jubilee. The year of Jubilee was a special year because debts were cancelled, slaves were set free, and all of the land was returned to the original owners for free. The year of Jubilee always fell on a Sunday year. It was counted as the fiftieth year of the outgoing Jubilee cycle and simultaneously, it was counted as the first year of the new incoming Jubilee cycle.

These facts about the Jubilee Calendar are important because the seventy weeks in Daniel 9 did not suddenly appear with a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Actually, the seventy weeks mentioned in Daniel 9 align with ongoing weekly cycles of years that began at the time of the Exodus. God did not grant 490 random years to Israel, but instead, God de fined the 490 years as seventy weeks so that He could draw Israel’s attention back to the weekly cycles of years that Israel had long ignored. When Gabriel said to Daniel, “Seventy sevens are decreed for your people” his language was designed to redirect Israel’s attention to the Jubilee Calendar which included the release of slaves, Sabbath years of rest for the land every seventh year, and the restoration of the land to its original owners at no charge!

Consider the way that Gabriel broke down the seventy weeks in Daniel 9:25:
7 weeks + 62 weeks + 1 week = 70 weeks 49 years + 434 years + 7 years = 490 years

Gabriel expressed the seventy weeks as three segments of time because the first segment of seven sevens is a Jubilee cycle. This was a huge clue for the nation of Israel. The all important decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem would occur during a year of Jubilee! God wanted His people to anticipate that the land would be returned to the Jews at no charge and the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem would occur during a year of Jubilee. This alignment with the Jubilee Calendar was not a casual coincidence.3 God had exiled Israel to Babylon for seventy years because it had refused to observe the Jubilee Calendar!4

Gabriel also told Daniel that Messiah would appear and begin His ministry exactly seven weeks plus sixty-two weeks (483 years) after the decree was issued. Then, in the middle of the following week of seven years (the seventieth week), Messiah would be “cut off” (disinherited), but not for Himself (Jesus would be cut off for sinners). When this information is properly assembled, perfect harmony springs from the sum of all of the parts! History says the all-important decree was issued in a year of Jubilee (457 B.C.) and exactly sixty-nine weeks later (A.D. 27), Jesus showed up on the banks of the Jordan River and John baptized Him. Jesus began his ministry in the fall of A.D. 27 (a Sunday year) and was crucified in the spring of A.D. 30, (a Wednesday year, in the middle of the seventieth week.)

Four decrees were issued to rebuild and restore Jerusalem and 457 B.C. is the only one that occurred in a year of Jubilee.5 Working backwards from the seventieth week and the year of Christ’s death, we find that Spring, 457 B.C. ties in with the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Do not forget, this decree was issued during the time of the ram (see Prophecy 3). King Artaxerxes, a Persian king, issued the all-important decree about Nisan 1 and Ezra departed for Jerusalem with decree in hand on the 12th day of Nisan.6 Because 457 B.C. is an unimpeachable date, the Thursday year of 1844 becomes unimpeachable as well (see prophecy 3). In this study, we will discover that the seventy weeks prophecy and the 2,300 days prophecy share the same starting date.

There is a second reason for properly positioning the seventy weeks. We learned in Prophecy 2 that the Ancient of Days took His seat in 1798. We also learned that in 1798, the Father issued a restraining order in Heaven and the result on Earth was the termination of 1,260 years of papal power over Europe. The pope was taken prisoner during the French Revolution (February 1798), and he died in exile. As we review the important dates of 1798 and 1844, consider Daniel 7:10: “the court was seated and the books were opened.” In Prophecy 3 we learned about 1844. We discovered that Jesus opened the books of record and began to cleanse Heaven’s temple of sin’s guilt when the 2,300 years ended. We also learned in Prophecy 3 that near the end of Christ’s judgment of mankind,7 a horn from the north (Lucifer, the stern-faced king) will appear out of nowhere and this horn will eventually bring Jesus’ intercession in Heaven’s temple to a close. There is perfect harmony coming from the sum of all of these prophetic parts!

 

[Goldwing]

Lake Murry is beautiful. We like to ride our bike up there. My husband and I live about 1/2 from there in Winnsboro.

Wife and I ride a lot as well. Is there a good bike trail along the Lk, and if so, where?

 

[Exeter]

Do you understand why others believe the 70th week actually followed the sixty ninth, and it ended in 33AD?

Some sources have the 70 weeks ending with Stephen's stoning in 34AD

Bible Prophecy charts

Bible Prophecy Charts The Bible was designed to be a guide to all who wish to become acquainted with the will of their Ma...

finaleventsexposed.blogspot.com

https://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/portals/bpt/charts/70-weeks.gif

 

[for_his_glory]

Wife and I ride a lot as well. Is there a good bike trail along the Lk, and if so, where?

Oops, I was talking about our Can Am Spyder. Lake Wateree is also a beautiful spot you can check out. We have only lived in SC for a year and a half.

 

[Goldwing]

I did find it and replied.

Oops, I was talking about our Can Am Spyder. Lake Wateree is also a beautiful spot you can check out. We have only lived in SC for a year and a half.

Well, beside bicycles for exercise, I am an avid motorcyclist. Hence, the name "Goldwing". The wife rides when she can. (as passenger) We have enjoyed Ca., immensely, off of them. Looking forward to exploring the Carolines in the same way. Maybe, some day we will ride together, since you will have discovered the better routes.

 

[Goldwing]

Some sources have the 70 weeks ending with Stephen's stoning in 34AD

Bible Prophecy charts

Bible Prophecy Charts The Bible was designed to be a guide to all who wish to become acquainted with the will of their Ma...

finaleventsexposed.blogspot.com

https://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/portals/bpt/charts/70-weeks.gif

Yes, that is true. However, the prophecy is given in terms of, "wks. of years", (not years) each day of the week equals a year. And as the author explains, this unit of measuring time is tied to the Jubilee calendar, of which Israel was familiar, but getting laxed, in observing all the Sabbaths of rest for the land, (every seven yrs.) and the year of Jubilee, (every 50th year), requiring the freeing of slaves, and any land that was purchased during the previous Jubilee cycle, be returned to it's original owner.

The chart you provided, (thank you) has the starting date of the seventy wks., and the start of Christ ministry (AD 27) correct. AD 27 is a Sunday year, AD 28 is the Mon. yr., AD 29 is the Tue. yr., AD 30 is the Wen. yr. (and the middle of the wk. of yrs.) AD 31, is the Thur., yr., AD 32 is the Fri., yr. and AD 33 is the Sabbath yr. (which is the seventh yr. of the wk. God defines a wk. From Sunday to Sabbath. The weekly cycle was instituted by God, and has always to this very day been in synct with creation week.

I encourage you to consider reading Mr. Wilsons books. He is the only one I know who understand the Jubilee calendar and prophecy in such detail. He never claimed he knows it all, as you seemed to imply in an earlier post, but rather said he was constantly learning more. He passed on over a yr. ago. He was a very humble individual. Consider going to www.wake-up.org, and watch any of his videos and witness what kind of individual he was. I'm sure you will appreciate what he has to share.

Some sources have the 70 weeks ending with Stephen's stoning in 34AD

Bible Prophecy charts

Bible Prophecy Charts The Bible was designed to be a guide to all who wish to become acquainted with the will of their Ma...

finaleventsexposed.blogspot.com

https://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/portals/bpt/charts/70-weeks.gif

 

[Exeter]

Yes, that is true. However, the prophecy is given in terms of, "wks. of years", (not years) each day of the week equals a year. And as the author explains, this unit of measuring time is tied to the Jubilee calendar, of which Israel was familiar, but getting laxed, in observing all the Sabbaths of rest for the land, (every seven yrs.) and the year of Jubilee, (every 50th year), requiring the freeing of slaves, and any land that was purchased during the previous Jubilee cycle, be returned to it's original owner.

The chart you provided, (thank you) has the starting date of the seventy wks., and the start of Christ ministry (AD 27) correct. AD 27 is a Sunday year, AD 28 is the Mon. yr., AD 29 is the Tue. yr., AD 30 is the Wen. yr. (and the middle of the wk. of yrs.) AD 31, is the Thur., yr., AD 32 is the Fri., yr. and AD 33 is the Sabbath yr. (which is the seventh yr. of the wk. God defines a wk. From Sunday to Sabbath. The weekly cycle was instituted by God, and has always to this very day been in synct with creation week.

I encourage you to consider reading Mr. Wilsons books. He is the only one I know who understand the Jubilee calendar and prophecy in such detail. He never claimed he knows it all, as you seemed to imply in an earlier post, but rather said he was constantly learning more. He passed on over a yr. ago. He was a very humble individual. Consider going to www.wake-up.org, and watch any of his videos and witness what kind of individual he was. I'm sure you will appreciate what he has to share.

The topic is always up for discussion, has been for yonks, as we say in NZ. ( slang for donkey's years.) Wilson has an angle, Bruce Gore is good up to a point, David Jeremiah is prolific so we are not short of expositors.

 

[for_his_glory]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent after their 70 year captivity in Babylon when the Medes and Persians conquered Babylon (Chaldean's) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping as they continue to follow Judaism and receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The people were allowed back in the land and Israel was again formed; however, the people did receive punishment as the kingdom was taken away. Additionally, for approximately 2500 years, from 586 BC until 1948, the nation was under the authority of a foreign power. Israel never again had a king from the messianic line of David to sit and rule.

Israel was given 490 years to deal with the sin of the nation and prepare for the coming of King Messiah. The prophecy would start with the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Messiah, the prince, would come exactly 483 years (69 weeks) after the command was given. Then the Messiah would be cut off or killed for others. After the 69 weeks, Messiah would be killed, and Jerusalem and the temple would once again be destroyed and made desolate. There would be wars and desolation's of Jerusalem for an unspecified period of time and then the end would come. This prophecy allows for the exact time for the first coming of Messiah to be determined.

Daniel separated the 70th week, the last seven years, from the previous 69 weeks. The 70th week was specially separated from all the other years. This prophecy gives conclusive proof that only Jesus of Nazareth can be Israel ’s King Messiah, the Savior of mankind.​

 

[Goldwing]

Daniel separated the 70th week, the last seven years, from the previous 69 weeks. The 70th week was specially separated from all the other years. This prophecy gives conclusive proof that only Jesus of Nazareth can be Israel ’s King Messiah, the Savior of mankind.​

To be clear, to you believe the prophecy has been fulfilled?

 

[Goldwing]

The topic is always up for discussion, has been for yonks, as we say in NZ. ( slang for donkey's years.) Wilson has an angle, Bruce Gore is good up to a point, David Jeremiah is prolific so we are not short of expositors.

Not familiar with either. Tell me since you imply that you are. In the introduction of either their books or video studies, do they inform there listeners/readers, of the hermeneutics which is the foundation of their interpretation so individuals can verify the interpretation, or are hermeneutics never mentioned?

If this is the case as it most often is, the negative consequences are explained in the parable of the "Math Teacher" in my post on "Why Experts Disagree". If you have read it, you recall the students were never taught the "laws of math", they were just given the answers to math problems to memorize, therefore, they couldn't solve math problems. It's the same with those who share prophecy, if they don't explain the laws of interpretation (hermeneutics) individuals are unable to verify the validity of the interpretation. Think about it, if there are no laws of interpretation to follow, how can one be called out for misinterpretation. Can there be penalties in sport games without rules of play?

 

[JLB]

Since Jesus died in the middle of the week,

• Jesus died on Friday, the day before the Sabbath.

Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Pilate marveled that He was already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him if He had been dead for some time. So when he found out from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph. Mark 15:42-45

• Jesus rose on the third day, the day after the Sabbath; the first day of the week.

Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?” But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away—for it was very large. Mark 16:1-4






JLB

 

[Exeter]

Think about it, if there are no laws of interpretation to follow, how can one be called out for misinterpretation.

Who should dictate such laws?
How should they be enforced?

 

[for_his_glory]

To be clear, to you believe the prophecy has been fulfilled?

No, as the 70th week will be fulfilled in Christ when He returns on the last day.

During the first six trumpets we read all the destruction that will befall earth and its inhabitants during God's great wrath being poured out into the world on those who are none of Christ as they refuse to repent. This will be worldwide which will cause much chaos and great fear in the hearts of those who have no understanding, Hosea 4:6, 7. They will be seeking a type of savior, yet rejecting the very Savior, Christ Jesus, who wants to save them.

During the sounding of the seventh trumpet they will accept this deceptive savior who is the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, who will take his seat in Jerusalem on the very Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock sits and even now is being refurbished for the son of perdition to take his literal seat. He will try and rule the nations for 3 1/2 years causing all to bow down and take its mark as he promises peace and safety displaying lying signs and wonders claiming he is God. Those who refuse will be taken captive and dealt with as many Christians will either become a slave or die a martyr's death, Rev 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21, At the end of the 3 1/2 years of the beast and its false prophet, Christ returns with His army (warring angels) from heaven and fights the final battle destroying the beast and false prophet by the sword (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, casting both into the lake of fire. Then will Christ destroy the remnant being those who followed after the beast out of the earth from every nation that have always followed and obeyed the beast.

Rev 19,20 This is the time of the gathering of the saints when Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His that are asleep in the grave and alive at His coming, Matthew 24:29-31 as He then binds Satan for a time so he can not interfere with the gathering. Once we are gathered to Him Jesus lets Satan loose for a time to gather his army, which I believe to be his demonic angels, against the camp of the saints, but God consumes his army by fire sent down from heaven and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire. All those who have now been slain by Jesus are gathered with the rest of the dead and face God's final judgment as their names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life and are cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

 

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Later on the law of Moses was added to that Covenant until the Messiah came, and ushered in the New (renewed) Covenant which was a renewal of the Covenant He made with Abraham and his descendants. This is why Paul speaks of us becoming children of Abraham through Christ, in which the blessing of Abraham has come upon us.

The covenant that was made with Moses and the children of Israel (Jacob) has nothing to do with the new covenant. It was NOT a RENEWAL of the covenant made with Abraham. The covenant made with Moses was wholly unique to the nation of Israel, and was completely separate from the covenant made with Abraham.

Abraham received the PROMISE of the covenant, though that covenant was not confirmed at the time. In fact, the covenant promised to Abraham was not CONFIRMED until Christ's blood was shed for it. In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

The covenant with Moses can NOT be a renewal of a covenant that had not yet been confirmed. These have to be understood as two separate and unique covenants.

Deuteronomy 5:2
The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 5:3
The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


Luke 1:72-73
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers,
and to remember his holy covenant;
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Romans 15:8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Where might we ask was this prophesied?

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


Galatians 3:17
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


JLB, whether intentional or nor, you have used the term renewal in your description of the two covenants, which leaves the connotation that the two covenants are linked in some way, or built upon one anaother. They are not, other than to say that the new covenant gave power to redeem those who were bound to the national covenant under the Law of Moses.