Russia and Israel, now what?

[Consecrated Life]

God has also prophesized about this same terrible day of both the great slaughter and the nation Israel finally realizing & accepting Their King and His power in Zechariah :

Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Psa 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Psa 110:2
The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Where is "accepting Jesus " in any of that? Repeating the scripture does NOT answer the question.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God has also prophesized about this same terrible day of both the great slaughter and the nation Israel finally realizing & accepting Their King and His power in Zechariah :

Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

"Accepting Jesus" is not in any of those scriptures. Do you think you can explain why you think it is there instead of just repeating it? This is a problem I have with the much flaunted "quote scripture please" cry. Many of those who quote cannot explain it show WHY they think it ways what they only THINK it says. "Jesus" or "Messiah" is not in those verses. Some of those verses apply to him and they were already fulfilled (like Zec 13:6) and the NT says they were fulfilled and will not need to be fulfilled AGAIN in the future. ( Jesus is not going to be wounded in his hands AGAIN in the house of his friends.) The slaughter is over. Israel as a nation did not admit Jesus was the Messiah and they never will. The remnant who did, left town.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Again from the Word of God Prophesizing this terrible future single day slaughter on a scale never before seen on the plain of Megiddo when the nation Israel is both witness to the Glory & Power of the Lord in His Day of Wrath, and forced to face the bitter reality of who their King is and that they rejected & pierced Him :

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

"The House of David " , ( the nation Israel ) , morning in bitterness for the fact they killed their own Messiah.

No one believes that this reconciliation, in mourning and bitterness, between the Nation Israel and the Lord of Glory in conjunction with the Lord's Day of Wrath, as prophesized in God's Word has already happened .

They are mourning Him as if over " an only son" on this day because they now know Him & are now accepting Him .
They are not mourning bitterly as if over " an only son" because they are getting ready to reject Him a second time .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Again from the Word of God Prophesizing this terrible future single day slaughter on a scale never before seen on the plain of Megiddo when the nation Israel is both witness to the Glory & Power of the Lord in His Day of Wrath, and forced to face the bitter reality of who their King is and that they rejected & pierced Him :

Zec 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

"The House of David " , ( the nation Israel ) , morning in bitterness for the fact they killed their own Messiah.

No one believes that this reconciliation, in mourning and bitterness, between the Nation Israel and the Lord of Glory in conjunction with the Lord's Day of Wrath, as prophesized in God's Word has already happened .

They are mourning Him as if over " an only son" on this day because they now know Him & are now accepting Him .
They are not mourning bitterly as if over " an only son" because they are getting ready to reject Him a second time .

You see it as future. The early church saw it as past as do more and more people as they become educated on the events surrounding the ending of the Mosaic Covenant. They who did terrible evil to Christ and his followers and were terribly eliminated in God's day of vengeance. It was a terrible day of slaughter on people who were terribly evil.

Now there is nothing in those scriptures that say that political Israel today (made up of people who have no relation to Abraham) will witness the Glory and Power of God. His wrath is not against those who are not in alignment with Israel. (Russia, btw, and Israel are today buddies, more or less as Israel refuses to help those fighting Russia.) Those people living in Israel today did not kill their own Messiah and will therefore not mourn it. We did not kill Jesus either. The Jews (with Roman help) killed their Messiah and it is likely they mourned when they saw the power of His day of wrath coming upon them. Those who pierced him saw that wrath of God in judgement against them.

The rest of what you wrote above is no where in scripture but made up. There is no more benefit to Israel accepting Jesus as the Messiah than Russia or Iran or India or the US. There is great benefit, to be sure, but Israel is not special. The Kingdom of God has been taken away from them and given to a nation of people producing the fruit thereof. It is not going to be given back but they an be grafted onto the same vine as the rest of the world, that is, Jesus.

I know none of this will convince you and that is your freedom. It would be better if you could explain how the scriptures you post in support actually support and not simply repeat what you heard will happen. I can give details matching of the scripture in Rev and Matt 24 that actually happened in real life but it would take book. There are prophesies of Moses that also described that day of wrath against those who murdered Jesus and who audibly that his blood would be upon them. God took them at their world and came in clouds of Judgement against them. It will not happen again.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I used to also think Jesus will
come in a violent take-over brutally killing his enemies in a totally unfair fight. These are supposed to be people whose main sun is rejecting him. If a worldly leader did we’d think it terrible. Now I ask myself how I could have believed that of Him.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Now there is nothing in those scriptures that say that political Israel today (made up of people who have no relation to Abraham) will witness the Glory and Power of God.

What about when Jesus said they're blinded in part....

Until the times of the gentiles are over.

What happens when the times of the gentiles are over?

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” ​

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”​

Are the "times" of the gentiles and the "fullness" of the gentiles the same things?

Or is Jesus and Paul talking about two different things?

Those people living in Israel today did not kill their own Messiah and will therefore not mourn it.

Then we really have to ask ouselves what are they doing there?

Israel, Jerusalem, could just as easily been populated by Palestinians who would have made the decree to restore Jerusalem in 1969. But it's not, and they didn't.

There is great benefit, to be sure, but Israel is not special.

It sounds like Paul is saying they're still special. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Too much history to ignore. And the fact that they're back in the land of their forefathers.

The Kingdom of God has been taken away from them and given to a nation of people producing the fruit thereof. It is not going to be given back but they an be grafted onto the same vine as the rest of the world, that is, Jesus.

Agreed.

But I still proceed with caution. It sounds like Paul calls them the "natural branches" that are "beloved for the sake of their forefathers."

I don't know why He'd want to do that, lest I be wise in my own sight. They are still waiting for their Messiah.

To this very day.

So like the question in the OP,

Now what?

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You see it as future. The early church saw it as past as do more and more people as they become educated on the events surrounding the ending of the Mosaic Covenant.

Nobody believes that the nation Israel, " House of David ", has ever mourned bitterly for Him who they pierced .
The " early church saw it " where & when ?
I would love to hear the detailing of this great day of mourning, and what caused this bitter mourning of the entire nation Israel to happen?
The entire " House of David" mourning bitterly as one for crucifying Jesus and accepting Him as, " an only son " would have to be an event very well documented, yet I and no one else has ever heard of it ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nobody believes that the nation Israel, " House of David ", has ever mourned bitterly for Him who they pierced .
The " early church saw it " where & when ?
I would love to hear the detailing of this great day of mourning, and what caused this bitter mourning of the entire nation Israel to happen?
The entire " House of David" mourning bitterly as one for crucifying Jesus and accepting Him as, " an only son " would have to be an event very well documented, yet I and no one else has ever heard of it ?

Why do you think it would be documented? Do you know the documented accounts in the fall of Jerusalem? It was well documented and who knows of it. The jews didn’t document it. Which of us documents regrets we have?

 

[hawkman]

I appreciate your answer. If the Chinese army started marching millions strong, the whole world will know. The Russians can hardly supply their troops along a road in territory they control. A road designed for ease of trade will not enable the Chinese army to march millions strong undetected. So while it shows you THOUGHT about my question for which I’m impressed and grateful, I can’t see it in a world of satellites. The whole world knew the Russians were assembling in their own border.

Dark thoughts . What if it is a world the no longer has working satellites ? What do you see now ?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What about when Jesus said they're blinded in part....

Until the times of the gentiles are over.

What happens when the times of the gentiles are over?

What exactly does that mean? You sure you know?

“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” ​

That’s what happened in 70 AD. Btw, no one uses swords so it’s unlikely anyone will die on one.

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”“And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”​

Are the "times" of the gentiles and the "fullness" of the gentiles the same things?

Do you know what this means in detail?

Or is Jesus and Paul talking about two different things?



Then we really have to ask ouselves what are they doing there?

Israel, Jerusalem, could just as easily been populated by Palestinians who would have made the decree to restore Jerusalem in 1969. But it's not, and they didn't.



It sounds like Paul is saying they're still special.

Jesus said the Kingdom will be (now is) taken away from them. As Paul wrote it was not the case.

Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

All true and no longer relevant. The kingdom of God has been given to others.

Too much history to ignore. And the fact that they're back in the land of their forefathers.

It’s history and not relevant.

Agreed.

But I still proceed with caution. It sounds like Paul calls them the "natural branches" that are "beloved for the sake of their forefathers."

Of course but they must be grafted on and that is then to Jesus.The Mosaic Covenant was still there.

I don't know why He'd want to do that, lest I be wise in my own sight. They are still waiting for their Messiah.

To this very day.

So like the question in the OP,

Now what?

The Messiah is not coming as they expect. He already came and they rejected Him. Russia is not going to invade Israel. Those events are history.

Peaceful Sabbath.

To you as well.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dark thoughts . What if it is a world the no longer has working satellites ? What do you see now ?

Why would that be the case?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Makes me wonder what the time of the Gentiles being fulfilled is. I had always thought it was when a certain number was reached but now I doubt that. I will give that some thought.

 

[jerry63935]

Gentiles being fulfilled

part of it refers to romans 11:25 personally its all in God timing i dont get caught up in how or when how will all Israel be saved ? i certainly do not hold to universal salvation

 

[Dorothy Mae]

part of it refers to romans 11:25 personally its all in God timing i dont get caught up in how or when how will all Israel be saved ? i certainly do not hold to universal salvation

That same Paul writes that not all who are Israel are of Israel. So what does “all Israel will be saved” mean? What else besides all the believers who are drafted into the vine will be saved, Gentile, Jew, make, female and do on.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Why do you think it would be documented? Do you know the documented accounts in the fall of Jerusalem? It was well documented and who knows of it. The jews didn’t document it. Which of us documents regrets we have?

To your mind the climactic, cataclysmic event of ancient Israel being visited by their long awaited & now glorified Messiah , whom they had previously executed, would not rate even a mention in their sacred texts ?
Your are kidding right ?


Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

[jerry63935]

rev 10:7 mystery of GOD coincides with romans 11:25
i dont fully know for sure in verse 26 --in last part blindness in part is happened to Israel UNTILL the fullness of the gentiles * other nations * be come in. so God is using gentiles to provoke Israel . once again this is a God thing . the great Tribulation is mainly but not all dealing with Israel.
we all know Israel would get away from God. God in turn used other nations to wake them up.

i dont have a handle on all this. and i will be honest with you i doubt any human being fully understands .

end time study is a very deep study that is not done nor understood over night. at the Church i pastor we are doing a study in revelation . i do lots research read many comments on them. men of old ironside jay Vernon McGee i compare a newer comments against these men David Jeremiah enduring word commentary . i find most of these are in agreement for the most some variance but nothing huge. they give there thoughts on who much like in rev 10 the mighty angle it sounds in nature in description like Christ but then he swears by him that liveth .

they all say maybe Christ might be Gabriel i lean towards Gabriel

fullness of gentiles

So the blindness is national (political) with a very positive Divine purpose for reaching the Jew first and also the Greek through the Gentiles who are saved by God’s grace as a direct result of Israel’s national blindness. .i have to agree on this comment .

timing i will not say. but in this time i dont see nor believe the church' is here . the more i study the more i see pre trib. can i be wrong yes i can .because there is nothing in the Bible that says pre or after trib

What else besides all the believers who are drafted into the vine will be saved, Gentile, Jew, make, female and do on.

i think you answered your own question

















8

 

[Dave Watchman]

What exactly does that mean? You sure you know?

It means they remain blinded IN PART, until they see Jesus again and say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

"For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’” - Jesus (Matthew 23)​

But they will see Jesus again.

That’s what happened in 70 AD. Btw, no one uses swords so it’s unlikely anyone will die on one.

It did. And continues now. It's the equivalent to the end of Daniel 9. Desolations are decreed. Until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” (This did not happen in 70 AD, for it still awaits it's appointed time)

Do you know what this means in detail?

I was asking what YOU think. Are the "times" of the gentiles and the "fullness" of the gentiles the same things? Because until the times of the gentiles are completed, national Israel will be blinded in part. Like the people in this video, to this very day:

Jesus said the Kingdom will be (now is) taken away from them. As Paul wrote it was not the case.

It still didn't answer my question.

Then we really have to ask ourselves what are they doing there?

Is it an accident Israel becoming a nation again?

All true and no longer relevant. The kingdom of God has been given to others.

Paul seems to be assigning it some relevance in Romans 9.

"Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs​

And so from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!

Amen.

It sounds like Paul is saying not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Not at least until the times of the gentiles is over.

It’s history and not relevant.

Then what is their purpose now?

Why are they back in the land of their forefathers?

Of course but they must be grafted on and that is then to Jesus.The Mosaic Covenant was still there.

Do they need to be back as national Israel in order to be grafted? Or could they have remain scattered and captive among all nations and be grafted from various individual places.

The Messiah is not coming as they expect. He already came and they rejected Him. Russia is not going to invade Israel. Those events are history.

Jesus was talking to the Pharisees. He was not talking to us right now, or speaking poetry. He was looking into the eyes of a stiff neck Jew who was missing, and missed his chance to redeem the 70 weeks.

“The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”​

He was telling the Pharisees that the kingdom of God was standing right before their eyes.

And they were missing the time of their Visitation.

He was not telling them that there would not be a second coming.

The OP question remains.

Now what?

What happens next?

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[hawkman]

Makes me wonder what the time of the Gentiles being fulfilled is. I had always thought it was when a certain number was reached but now I doubt that. I will give that some thought.

Here is link about that, I found it to be of interest and maybe you will too .
WHEN WILL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Here is link about that, I found it to be of interest and maybe you will too .
WHEN WILL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED?

Ah, but I’m thinking it is past and I think I might have an inkling. Since Revelation and Matt 24 don’t mention it at all and that’s in the future for you, it makes it doubtful the answer is a major milestone.