Sabbath Day business

[jocor]

If you could answer the question I asked it would clear up a lot of misconception about what you are teaching on this Forum.

So if Jesus is not the Lord of the Old Testament (YHWH), then is He;

A man only?

An angel?

JLB

I believe what is written in Psalm 2:7 and 1Ti 2:5;

Psalm 2:7 - I will declare the decree: YHWH hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

1Ti 2:5 - For there is one God (YHWH), and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua;
​

 

[ezrider]

I don't need a sacrifice other than Yeshua. Why would you ask such a question?

Why do you need a sacrifice? Why do you still need Yeshua for a sacrifice?

He has already consecrated the new covenant, the covenant of promise in His Blood.

If you are in the millennium, and you are under the new covenant, then what further requires the necessity of a sacrifice?

 

[ezrider]

You are a false lying prophet and I'm being a fool by giving you the time of day. I do not consider you to be a brother in Christ.

Thou sayest it. And yet you reveal yourself. You have made your judgement and have chosen your father.

Psalm 95
O come, let us sing unto the Lord:
let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving,
and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
For the Lord is a great God,
and a great King above all gods.
In his hand are the deep places of the earth:
the strength of the hills is his also.
The sea is his, and he made it:
and his hands formed the dry land.
O come, let us worship and bow down:
let us kneel before the Lord our maker.
For he is our God;
and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand.
To day if ye will hear his voice,
Harden not your heart, as in the provocation,
and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me,
proved me, and saw my work.
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation,
and said, It is a people that do err in their heart,
and they have not known my ways:
Unto whom I sware in my wrath
that they should not enter into my rest.

 

[jocor]

Why do you need a sacrifice? Why do you still need Yeshua for a sacrifice?

He has already consecrated the new covenant, the covenant of promise in His Blood.

If you are in the millennium, and you are under the new covenant, then what further requires the necessity of a sacrifice?

I don't know about you ez, but I need Yeshua as my sacrifice. I still sin. His sacrificial blood cleanses me (1 John 1:7; 2:2). His sacrifice is ongoing for all believers. Once we renounce him, then his sacrifice no longer remains for us (Hebrews 10:26). Is Yeshua no longer your sacrifice? What cleanses your sins?

 

[ezrider]

I don't know about you ez, but I need Yeshua as my sacrifice. I still sin. His sacrificial blood cleanses me (1 John 1:7; 2:2). His sacrifice is ongoing for all believers. Once we renounce him, then his sacrifice no longer remains for us (Hebrews 10:26). Is Yeshua no longer your sacrifice? What cleanses your sins?

Why no. He his no longer my sacrifice. He is my Beloved and my He is my Betrothed. Should I seek to kill my Husband, for what. I am dead in my sins and I am dead to my sins, what good is it to clean them, other than that you may glory in them? I am dead in my sins, but I live unto the Lord, and not that I live, but by Him that lives in me. I live by Faith under the promise of his Covenant, that He would remember our sins no more. And so I walk squarely within His Grace with a clean conscious.

Tell me, you who would hang your Lord upon a cross over and over and over again. Where within the contract of the new Covenant is there a requirement to provide blood as a sacrifice for sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Drop the snarks, reba


.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why no. He his no longer my sacrifice. He is my Beloved and my He is my Betrothed. Should I seek to kill my Husband, for what. I am dead in my sins and I am dead to my sins, what good is it to clean them, other than that you may glory in them? I am dead in my sins, but I live unto the Lord, and not that I live, but by Him that lives in me. I live by Faith under the promise of his Covenant, that He would remember our sins no more. And so I walk squarely within His Grace with a clean conscious.

Tell me, you who would hang your Lord upon a cross over and over and over again. Where within the contract of the new Covenant is there a requirement to provide blood as a sacrifice for sin?

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Do you wish to continually shame your Lord, openly?


.

Stop turning light into dark. Read it--falling away is what puts Christ to shame (Hebrews 6:6 NASB), not seeking forgiveness through Christ when we sin.

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:1-2 NASB)

He is able also to save forever * those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. " (Hebrews 7:25 NASB).

 

[jocor]

Tell me, you who would hang your Lord upon a cross over and over and over again. Where within the contract of the new Covenant is there a requirement to provide blood as a sacrifice for sin?
.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Yeshua Messiah His Son cleanses us from all sin.​

It is Messiah's sacrificial blood that atones for and cleanses us from sin.

 

[YosefHayim]

I can settle the saturday/sunday sabbath debate. I'll take both days off.

 

[ezrider]

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Yeshua Messiah His Son cleanses us from all sin.​

It is Messiah's sacrificial blood that atones for and cleanses us from sin.

You do realize don't you, that those letters you are referring to were sent to those who were brought up under the old Covenant. The sacrificial blood of Christ was for those that were under the first covenant.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

I was born into the New Covenant, I was not redeemed from the old testament and the Law of Moses. I was redeemed from the sin of Adam's transgression.

Hebrews 10:15-18
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us:for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

[jocor]

You do realize don't you, that those letters you are referring to were sent to those who were brought up under the old Covenant. The sacrificial blood of Christ was for those that were under the first covenant.

1 John was written to believers. Yeshua is not only an atoning sacrifice for believers, but for the whole world (including those who were not under the OC.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.​

Hebrews 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

I was born into the New Covenant, I was not redeemed from the old testament and the Law of Moses. I was redeemed from the sin of Adam's transgression.

How were you redeemed from Adam's sin?

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Messiah died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
Rom 5:11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Master Yeshua Messiah, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Eph 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Col 1:12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light;
Col 1:13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love;
Col 1:14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:

Hebrews 10:15-18
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us:for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

The phrase in bold simply means we don't need any other sacrifice for sin and that Yeshua need not sacrifice himself over and over again for each sin. His one time sacrifice and shed blood continues to cleanse the sinner throughout his life. However, if we reject his sacrifice and renounce him as our Savior and atonement, then his sacrifice no longer remains for us. It is withdrawn and we return to being dead in our sins with no blood sacrifice.

 

[jocor]

I can settle the saturday/sunday sabbath debate. I'll take both days off.

I already tried that, but the leadership of my Sunday church kicked me out because I had "fallen from grace." So much for the love Gospel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I already tried that, but the leadership of my Sunday church kicked me out because I had "fallen from grace." So much for the love Gospel.

Oh, that's right........Mosaic law keeping is forbidden for any and all reasons, period.

Any attempt to keep the law is immediately interpreted by the church as an attempt to be justified by works of the law. How ridiculous.

 

[JLB]

I believe what is written in Psalm 2:7 and 1Ti 2:5;

Psalm 2:7 - I will declare the decree: YHWH hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

1Ti 2:5 - For there is one God (YHWH), and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua;
​

Yes we all know the Lord God became flesh...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1,14

The question was He a man only?

In other words, God beget a Son...

Did God beget God?
or
Did God beget man?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Oh, that's right........Mosaic law keeping is forbidden for any and all reasons, period.

Any attempt to keep the law is immediately interpreted by the church as an attempt to be justified by works of the law. How ridiculous.

If a person thinks it to be a sin to kindle a fire on the Sabbath, because the law of Moses forbids it, then that person is doing it to be right with God, or as Jacor has explained it, "to maintain his salvation" which would be the very essence of doing it to be justified (declared righteous) by God.

I don't think many of us disagree that the Sabbath is the 7th day.

Sabbath is the day that God designed for man to rest.

I think most of our contention is how the rest is to be conducted.

Are we obligated to keep the Sabbath as the law of Moses commands?

The answer is clearly no.

If you think we should keep the Sabbath as the law of Moses commands, please explain why.


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Yes we all know the Lord God became flesh...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1,14

The question was He a man only?

In other words, God beget a Son...

Did God beget God?
or
Did God beget man?


JLB

God begat a MAN, who was the Son of God. Who was the IMAGE of the fulness of God in the flesh.

 

[Sparkey]

The question was He a man only?
In other words, God beget a Son...
Did God beget God? or
Did God beget man?

God begat a MAN, who was the Son of God. Who was the IMAGE of the fulness of God in the flesh.

You got that right, ezrider. Jesus came in flesh. Do 'bout a doubt it. Way to nail what I can only hope was a rhetorical there.

Nobody is preaching otherwise are they? We are told to test all spirits. THAT is the 1 John 4:1 test.

 

[Sparkey]

I can settle the saturday/sunday sabbath debate. I'll take both days off.

I already tried that, but the leadership of my Sunday church kicked me out because I had "fallen from grace." So much for the love Gospel.

Wait(!)

You were excommunicated for your beliefs? Okay, let's pretend I didn't hear that. You know that Paul (who should be the leader of your then-leadership) would disagree and by extension, God disagrees, if what they kicked you out over was solely about worshiping on Saturday or Sunday, right?

COL 2:15-17 (uncopyrighted, public domain version (we own it) that I just quick-grabbed off'n the spider infested inter-webs)
When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.…​

 

[Sparkey]

Peter obeyed what the Lord told Him to do, as Jesus clearly said to Peter - don't call unclean what I have said is clean....

So much for your "not so Lord" doctrine.
(emphasis mine, Sparrowhawk)

Agreed, and calling it my "no so, Lord doctrine" honors me too much. That doctrine isn't mine. It belongs to the Holy Spirit. I found it in the bible and mentioned it and reinforced it because Peter was acting just as if he had been commanded to cook barley cakes over human dung (and that too was the Holy Spirit's 'not so, Lord" with Ezekiel, not Peter...)

But I do agree with you. Peter did obey. Peter did exactly what the Holy Spirit said to him (nothing more, nothing less) because Peter did stop calling the Gentiles 'the unclean' (as you say). That was just what Jews had been calling them for thousands of years. So it wasn't Peter only either. But Peter never stopped calling them spiders and creepy crawly yech because he never once called them spiders and creepy crawly yech in his life, that's why! He just said they were unclean and that's why he and others refused to eat with them. So God made them clean and showed Peter and the whole world what he did. And Peter was the first to stop calling Gentiles Unclean.

Also notice that it took an exceptional thing for God to get His point across. Typical order (with Jews) was just like Peter had said, "Repent, be baptized, and ye shall be filled [baptized] with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2 something). God filled with the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized. THAT is the point. Gentiles were ushered in. The Usher is the Holy Spirit who is utterly holy and apart from sin. That's why Peter's testimony about the Unclean (the gentiles) being made clean was so very effective. Without the Holy Spirit ushering the Gentiles in, you and I would NOT BE HERE. There is no chance of it happening otherwise. ('nuff said)

Paul learned the same exact thing from the Lord Jesus... As he wrote...

I am convinced by the Lord Jesus, There is nothing unclean of itself...
Romans 14:14

And here too Paul is correct. And you know he was speaking about idols. So if I go into a person's house, your house, for instance, and if I see something that might appear to be an idol, let's say it's a christmas tree... and if it's all decorated and has twinkles on it and if I see children holding hands in a circle and they are dancing around it and giving it more veneration than a dead tree deserves? And even if they are singing to that dead tree, "O, christmas tree, o christmas tree..." ???

Instead of declaring Oy vey ist mir! under my breath (Oh! Woe is me! for what I see...) We are assured that nothing is unclean in and of itself. You won't hear me calling you an idol worshiper. Not even in my heart. God has grace for his children even if they have not come into the fullness of His glory experientially. WE should too.

 

[Sparkey]

Now back to your vomit!

Thank you 'friend', 'brother', 'neighbor'.

What the chuckle is, you don't even know what I think about the law of Moses.

What was I talking about? Was it about those whom God had made clean? Although I do make friends with dogs and am very dog friendly, I also like cats and I used to hate them. Jethro is NOT A DOG.

ezrider Watch yourself. You're talking about my friend there.

Change of subject is easy in the LOUNGE. Raise hand. Change subject.
I'm raising my hand.
We are (for a moment only) changing subject.

Have you ever seen an american kestral (sparrowhawk from the south) defend it's nest. That hawk is a very small bird. But let some Southern Gentleman wander too close to its nest, and to those whom she feeds??? Watch OUT. Wings will be flapping and even though that majestic bird never takes prey in flight, it will go for the eyes.

This message, from your sponsor, who is your betrothed, has come through me. And I am tiny so you might have to strain to hear me well... We now return to your regular programming

Woof, woof. Ever hear a bird bark? You have now. I know that sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment so I've already prayed and God has already given life to you! BOOM. It is done!

 

[JLB]

Agreed, and calling it my "no so, Lord doctrine" honors me too much. That doctrine isn't mine. It belongs to the Holy Spirit. I found it in the bible and mentioned it and reinforced it because Peter was acting just as if he had been commanded to cook barley cakes over human dung (and that too was the Holy Spirit's 'not so, Lord" with Ezekiel, not Peter...)

Yes the OT had requirements the New Testament doesn't have, such as not eating certain foods...

Peter learned not to call unclean, what the Lord declared clean.

Now if you could learn that as well, then you would have the same revelation as Peter, which resulted in bringing salvation to the Gentiles.


JLB