Sabbath Day business

[Jethro Bodine]

Honestly? ORLY? ONLY ITCHING???
Did you really just try to "honestly" accuse me of "itching ears"

No.
You have not told me you are in confusion about voices you hear that contradict the Bible. So how could I have directed my comment to you? It's about ezrider. He openly suggests there is knowledge that didn't get written down in the Bible because there was no room for it in all the books that could be written (John 20 something?) and it is this knowledge that he 'hears' and believes. But when we point out that his secret knowledge contradicts the Bible he apparently doesn't have the humility to admit it but instead plunges deeper into defending his doctrine.

 

[Obadiah]

Confusion comes in all flavors? ... Should I buy a honda or a yamaha?

Heaven forbid! Only buy a Harley!!!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As long as you know that false witness is a sin, Lars, (Oops, I mean 'Jethro').

Even calling me Lars isn't going to let you off the hook on this one.

Here Christ gives us the command to consider the unrepentant believer to be an unbeliever:

"15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. " (Matthew 18:15-17 NIV)

He isn't saying to decide that he is definitely an unbeliever. He's saying to treat him as such. From there we are to leave the rest to God.

Why are Christians so afraid of 'judging' people by using their God given discernment of who to trust and who not to trust in the Church. Like Donald Trump, we've got no time to be PC!

 

[Sparkey]

Heaven forbid! Only buy a Harley!!!

OH! Please don't remind me. I just met and have had a couple conversations with another member here whose name shall remain anonymous but his initials are ezrider and he told me how he had bought his fat boy, stored it, loved it but didn't get a chance to ride it (much) so he just recently sold it ---> (:erm) <--- BOING! (meaning, "that almost knocked me cockeyed") because I didn't hear of that sale until after the fact. Probably good thing because I'm not above trying to leverage legitimate Christian love in order to get a better deal on a fat boy, right? At least, we'll never know for certain how easily I am bought and sold like merchandise... or I hope we won't.

Still crying and wetting my little bird tears all over my 2001 motorcycle with 16,000 miles and sweet new soft tires and many more miles left on her before I can legitimately dispose of her. She just purrs. That's nice. Really. But it ain't a Harley®, that's for sure.

 

[Sparkey]

Even calling me Lars isn't going to let you off the hook on this one.

Nor should it. I thought I'd try because I told myself that I would join in the effort... and my calling you this name was purely me, keeping a promise to me, not a bride (oops, typo - I meant "bribe") to you and not trying to get off? Where's your G-d given discernment now, oh Mr. Lars? I hope you're not claiming infallibility. That's a whole nuther nut to crack, now isn't it?

The instruction you quoted and put in blue, Jethro, was from Jesus -- but it was a complex, multi step "IF CONDITIONAL" -- I counted at minimum 3 specific steps after the first IF and before the conclusion and the assumption was that you were in close proximity geographically with each other. I won't ask you directly if that is the case because I don't need to know. It's not my business. Not really. That's between you, the one you accuse or falsely accuse and your G-d. Nothing said about a sparrow there. Nothing I see.

 

[ezrider]

No.
You have not told me you are in confusion about voices you hear that contradict the Bible. So how could I have directed my comment to you? It's about ezrider. He openly suggests there is knowledge that didn't get written down in the Bible because there was no room for it in all the books that could be written (John 20 something?) and it is this knowledge that he 'hears' and believes. But when we point out that his secret knowledge contradicts the Bible he apparently doesn't have the humility to admit it but instead plunges deeper into defending his doctrine.

I seem to be a little confused there Jethro. Why, are you saying that John did not write that? Are you aware that it was said to John the he must prophesy again? Now I may have quoted that verse to enlighten you to the fact that there is so much more that we are to understand. But tell me, where have I Quoted to you any of these scriptures that supposedly aren't in your Bible (well, your translation may be slightly different than mine. NASB, KJV, NKJV, whats in a couple of letters)? I can't seem to recall any off the top of my head.

No, I am only suggesting that what I have said remains hidden to you, because there is still a vail still upon your heart, at least as I see it. But then again we are all hidden in Christ, and we all wear a vail to conceal His Glory within us, even as Moses did, even as Jesus did. And it is most difficult to see beyond that vail in anyone, but there is a way, and it takes a special sort of gift to do so. It's called listening. And by listening, it means listening with intent. But you do not listen so that you might hear, you listen so that you can judge instead, and in your listening, you are deaf to the words that I speak.

Yes there remains a vail upon our hearts when reading the old testament, even unto this very day, even TODAY. But there is a way step through that vail and peer into his glory. I would offer you freely the keys to the kingdom that I hold, if only you would humble yourself. Maybe you think you hold your own key to the kingdom, and maybe you really do, except I do not hear it from you. Maybe the vail over you is just to thick to see through, and the sound is rather muffled and broken. But only you (well, and him) can know what truly rattles around in your own head.

But I hear your words Jethro, you think you can fulfiil the Law of Moses by walking in Faith. Now you may understand this perfectly well within your own heart and mind. And if so, then good for you!. BUT, all I ever hear you said is if only the church would understand. If Only. You like to accuse others of not understanding, but then you do absolutely nothing to explain yourself. To take the necessary steps so we can understand how you think you fulfiil the Law of Moses through Faith without placing yourself under the confines of the works of the Law.

You may understand yourself perfectly well. But the problem and the danger is when you teach that by faith you can uphold the Law of Moses, then those who do not poses the knowledge of your faith, hear you telling them to return to a law of works. And to those that are new and unlearned, or the unstable... Well, how heavy is that millstone anyway?

I have no doubts what so ever that you can lead a man to Jesus, and that you can lead him to his death. But what I want to know, is can you lead a man to Christ? Now I said it differently to purposely draw a distinction. You see, I know you can lead them to the cross and his death. But can you lead them to His LIFE in the resurrection from the dead?

But I wonder, how could you lead them? How can someone who places themselves in every conversation as the OPPONENT, and therefore the ADVERSARY, presume to lead anyone into green pastures? The friend of the Bridegroom is not my adversary, so why do you set yourself as the adversary?


Lars? Now there has got to be some story behind that one?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nor should it. I thought I'd try because I told myself that I would join in the effort... and my calling you this name was purely me, keeping a promise to me, not a bride (oops, typo - I meant "bribe") to you and not trying to get off? Where's your G-d given discernment now, oh Mr. Lars? I hope you're not claiming infallibility. That's a whole nuther nut to crack, now isn't it?

The instruction you quoted and put in blue, Jethro, was from Jesus -- but it was a complex, multi step "IF CONDITIONAL" -- I counted at minimum 3 specific steps after the first IF and before the conclusion and the assumption was that you were in close proximity geographically with each other. I won't ask you directly if that is the case because I don't need to know. It's not my business. Not really. That's between you, the one you accuse or falsely accuse and your G-d. Nothing said about a sparrow there. Nothing I see.

I'm not the only one who pointed out his contradictory statements.

If you want to trust people who are obviously listening to other spirits and don't show any humility when confronted, and you want to consider them brothers, well, go for it. But as for me I'm using my God given right to not do that.......and leaving the rest up to God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I seem to be a little confused there Jethro. Why, are you saying that John did not write that?

I didn't say that. I simply did not have the time to post the exact reference.

Now I may have quoted that verse to enlighten you to the fact that there is so much more that we are to understand.

....but not that which contradicts what we already know.

But tell me, where have I Quoted to you any of these scriptures that supposedly aren't in your Bible (well, your translation may be slightly different than mine. NASB, KJV, NKJV, whats in a couple of letters)? I can't seem to recall any off the top of my head.

You said you knew the real sin Adam sinned. It directly contradicted what the Bible says. And you didn't have the decency to acknowledge you were stone cold wrong. It's your haughty pride. You speak down to everyone from your superior so-called knowledge and you go to great pains to avoid being wrong when confronted with what the Bible actually says. Really you're not much different than other people in this forum who do the exact same thing, but you are the one who claims you are connecting to another voice that us simpletons don't have the privilege of hearing.

No, I am only suggesting that what I have said remains hidden to you, because there is still a vail still upon your heart, at least as I see it.

Well, you really should know what I believe, first, before you go deciding knowledge is hidden to me. That's probably what burns me the most. I can tell by how you talk to me that you think I believe something I surely do not. JLB does the same thing to me. At least he's not saying he's communing with voices to come up with his doctrines.

Back to the slave ship for me.........

 

[ezrider]

Well, you really should know what I believe, first, before you go deciding knowledge is hidden to me. That's probably what burns me the most. I can tell by how you talk to me that you think I believe something I surely do not. JLB does the same thing to me. At least he's not saying he's communing with voices to come up with his doctrines.

Back to the slave ship for me.........

Why yes, yes.

Sound the Oars!

Battle speed.

thump, thump, thump


Ramming Speed.



Come on, row you slacker

 

[Edward]

Complete Nonsense!

All the scripture twisting in the world won't change what the law of Moses says...

Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:15

This is what the law of Moses required.


JLB

Good thing we're under grace since the NT. I have the feeling that the Sabbath will be back in force during & after the millennial reign though, and rightly so!

 

[JLB]

Good thing we're under grace since the NT. I have the feeling that the Sabbath will be back in force during & after the millennial reign though, and rightly so!

The 1000 year millennial reign is the 7th Day Rest, that the weekly Sabbath points to.

The whole 1000 years is the Day of rest... as Peter explains -

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8


At His coming it will have been at the end of the 6000 years since Adam, so we will begin the the 7000 year or 7th prophetic Day and it will extend for 1000 years.

4000 years from Adam to Christ, and 2000 from the first appearing to the Second Coming...

True rest will come when Satan and His angels have been bound, and all the wicked have been removed and we have sinless immortal bodies that will never die.

No more spirit striving against the sinful desires of a fleshly body that is corrupt with a sin nature.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

there is still a vail still upon your heart, at least as I see it.

Wrong. I'm in Christ. The veil is lifted in Christ, and I most assuredly have been justified by faith in Christ, not by works of the law:

" their (the Isrealites) minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever * Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever * a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away." (2 Corinthians 3:14-16 NASB parenthesis mine)

The reason people can not see the plain words of scripture, like above, is because this hyper-grace teaching over taking the church appeals to those who are not pure in heart. They can not see God (Matthew 5:8 NASB). They are serving an agenda that dumbs down the holy and righteous standard of God to the point that how you live has no bearing whatsoever on your relationship with God because they think if it did that would not be grace, but a works salvation (for what that means to them). And so they surmise that whoever is thinking in this vein of what they call works salvation has a veil over their eyes. Little knowing it is they we have veiled eyes that can not see. Just not veiled with a false understanding of the law, but a false understanding of grace--one that caters to their impure hearts (or itching ears, according to that analogy).

I would offer you freely the keys to the kingdom that I hold, if only you would humble yourself.

If you actually knew what I believe you'd know that I already have the keys to the kingdom. But since you do not understand what constitutes Paul's works justification teaching you think I'm trusting in a works justification gospel. The indoctrination about the law that grips the church prevents many, many Christians from knowing what Paul is actually teaching about the law in plain words that un-indoctrinated, or formerly indoctrinated, people can see.

Maybe you think you hold your own key to the kingdom, and maybe you really do, except I do not hear it from you. Maybe the vail over you is just to thick to see through, and the sound is rather muffled and broken.

Maybe it's just that some people can only hear what other people say filtered through the indoctrination that grips them. As I've said, this is probably the biggest obstacle I encounter in these forums--people simply can't 'hear' what you're actually saying because their indoctrination has trained them to only be able to hear your argument in a predefined way taught to them.

But I hear your words Jethro, you think you can fulfiil the Law of Moses by walking in Faith. Now you may understand this perfectly well within your own heart and mind. And if so, then good for you!.

I think it because that's what the Bible plainly says:

"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB parenthesis mine)

"14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."" (Galatians 5:14 NASB)

"(H) who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8 NASB)

"28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:28,31 NASB)

Love is the manifestation of faith. Love fulfills/ establishes (upholds) the law of Moses. I know I'm using only the scriptures to base my belief on, but that's what I'm going with.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The 1000 year millennial reign is the 7th Day Rest, that the weekly Sabbath points to.

The whole 1000 years is the Day of rest... as Peter explains -

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8


At His coming it will have been at the end of the 6000 years since Adam, so we will begin the the 7000 year or 7th prophetic Day and it will extend for 1000 years.

4000 years from Adam to Christ, and 2000 from the first appearing to the Second Coming...

True rest will come when Satan and His angels have been bound, and all the wicked have been removed and we have sinless immortal bodies that will never die.

No more spirit striving against the sinful desires of a fleshly body that is corrupt with a sin nature.


JLB

Don't wait around for the Millennium:

"10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so * that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience." (Hebrews 4:10-11 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

the problem and the danger is when you teach that by faith you can uphold the Law of Moses, then those who do not poses the knowledge of your faith, hear you telling them to return to a law of works.

Listen to yourself.
Since when is 'faith' equal to 'a law of works'?
Do you even know what 'a law of works' means? Not what you say it means, what PAUL says it means.
If you did know you would not be equating having faith with trying to be justified by works of the law.

 

[Edward]

The 1000 year millennial reign is the 7th Day Rest, that the weekly Sabbath points to.

The whole 1000 years is the Day of rest... as Peter explains -

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:8


At His coming it will have been at the end of the 6000 years since Adam, so we will begin the the 7000 year or 7th prophetic Day and it will extend for 1000 years.

4000 years from Adam to Christ, and 2000 from the first appearing to the Second Coming...

True rest will come when Satan and His angels have been bound, and all the wicked have been removed and we have sinless immortal bodies that will never die.

No more spirit striving against the sinful desires of a fleshly body that is corrupt with a sin nature.


JLB

Brother, I do believe that you're right! I like this plan.

 

[ezrider]

It's about ezrider. He openly suggests there is knowledge that didn't get written down in the Bible because there was no room for it in all the books that could be written (John 20 something?) and it is this knowledge that he 'hears' and believes.

Why, are you saying that John did not write that?

I didn't say that. I simply did not have the time to post the exact reference.

Let me rephrase my question to yo, because it may have been a little jumbled on my part. In your attempt to mock me, you made reference the comment that I make concerning the quote from John that if all the things that Jesus said and did, that if they were written down, that all the books of the world could not contain them.


So what I was trying to ask was, ARE YOU SAYING JOHN DID NOT WRITE THAT? Do you disagree with what John said?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But what I want to know, is can you lead a man to Christ? Now I said it differently to purposely draw a distinction. You see, I know you can lead them to the cross and his death. But can you lead them to His LIFE in the resurrection from the dead?

I know, I know, I'm relying on this silly crutch, the Bible, but this is how Jesus said you possess and live his 'zoe' life:

"9 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. 11 "These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. 12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 17 "This I command you, that you love one another." (John 15:9-13,17 NASB)

Your problem is that every time you hear 'law', or 'works', or 'commandments' you instantly think of Paul's damnable law gospel. But you don't understand that the manifestation of faith is works. When your faith in Christ leads you to obey the law, "love your neighbor as yourself", which is the fulfilling of the law of Moses, you enter into the abundance that Christ died to give his people.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let me rephrase my question to yo, because it may have been a little jumbled on my part. In your attempt to mock me, you made reference the comment that I make concerning the quote from John that if all the things that Jesus said and did, that if they were written down, that all the books of the world could not contain them.


So what I was trying to ask was, ARE YOU SAYING JOHN DID NOT WRITE THAT? Do you disagree with what John said?

Why are you adding to what the verse actually says?

"25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." John 21:25 NASB

But anyway, I know the Bible well enough to know what scripture you had in mind when you said what you did. I was not contending with that. You just took it that way because I did not take the time to find the actual reference, referring to it as "John 20 something", which you mis-took as mocking. I'll let you know when I'm mocking you if you ever wonder .

 

[ezrider]

Listen to yourself.
Since when is 'faith' equal to 'a law of works'?
Do you even know what 'a law of works' means? Not what you say it means, what PAUL says it means.
If you did know you would not be equating having faith with trying to be justified by works of the law.

Jethro, why don't yo just drop the BS and just explain to us how by your faith you uphold the law of Moses. That's what I want to hear from you. How you do it. explain it to us. Only do not quote the scriptures to do so. I already know what the scriptures say. I want Jethro to explain how Jethro upholds Law of Moses by faith and not by works.

When you can find the word within yourself to explain your faith, then I will listen with open ears. But is it in you. Can you explain yourself without quoting the Bible?

 

[ezrider]

Why are you adding to what the verse actually says?

"25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." John 21:25 NASB

But anyway, I know the Bible well enough to know what scripture you had in mind when you said what you did. I was not contending with that. You just took it that why because I did not take the time to find the actual reference, referring to it as "John 20 something", which you mis-took as mocking. I'll let you know when I'm mocking you if you ever wonder .

I was paraphrasing, and obviously you understood the spirit of what I was saying because you recalled the verse that I was trying to reference, but then you turn around and ask why I am adding to what the verse actually said. So you heard the Spirit of the message, but then point to the LETTER and with the inference that I am adding on to what the verse actually says. Why DO YOU DO THAT? Was not the Spirit of the message good enough for you? Are you more perfect than G-d?


I know what the scripture say. The LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.