francisdesales
Member
I think, Jason, they are unfamiliar with the Psalms. So buried in Paul, these people are too focused on the Law and don't recognize God's bountiful mercy, even in the OT...
Regards
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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Salvation by faith alone/only?
- Thread starter Frodo
- Start date
I think, Jason, they are unfamiliar with the Psalms. So buried in Paul, these people are too focused on the Law and don't recognize God's bountiful mercy, even in the OT...
Regards
2 i got the reverse as the lord told me not to read john but start in genesis. i saw christ all over in the old testament.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
even
You teach that one must do something in order to get saved. Do you deny that now?
The scripture teaches that Christ saves, His death saves alone without men doing anything. If you do not believe that, you believe in works.
If a person believes they are saved because they believed or because they denied themselves and picked up their cross and followed Christ, thats works salvation, not grace..
You teach that one must do something in order to get saved. Do you deny that now?
The scripture teaches that Christ saves, His death saves alone without men doing anything. If you do not believe that, you believe in works.
If a person believes they are saved because they believed or because they denied themselves and picked up their cross and followed Christ, thats works salvation, not grace..
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
webb
More works salvation teaching. Titus 3:5
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
More works salvation teaching. Titus 3:5
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
glory
We do have a different Jesus, and the one I serve is in scripture.
The Jesus I serve gives those items to those He saves. They did not need them to get saved however. He gives them repentance Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Israel is His Elect People, not National Israel but Spiritual Israel, The Church !
God considers His Elect Special Deut 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
We do have a different Jesus, and the one I serve is in scripture.
The Jesus I serve gives those items to those He saves. They did not need them to get saved however. He gives them repentance Acts 5:31
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Israel is His Elect People, not National Israel but Spiritual Israel, The Church !
God considers His Elect Special Deut 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Grubal Muruch
Member
I respect your ability to remain calm under pressure... Some might resort to name calling under the circumstance's, but not you. You have "uncanny" restraint. I admire that in a person. What's your secret??
Ooh...you do resent me, don't you Joe? For some reason you just can't get me off your mind. I'm always included in your posts which really makes me feel special.
Unfortunately, you have totally missed what I've been saying. Nothing new there. I have never said God never showed mercy until the perfect had come ...now I see it's changed to perfect law followers, as if there is more than one. I only explained that God had a purpose to His mercy, and that He overlooked man's sin until Jesus came.
Since you don't understand the mercy seat, and that Jesus is the personification of the mercy seat, I don't expect you to understand anything else I say.
Do you believe it was even necessary for Jesus to die for our sins? Do you think we'd be saved by God's mercy if Jesus hadn't come? You must, because you seem to deny Jesus and the need of His coming, at every turn. It even sounds mocking when you put your quotes around the "perfect law follower". Since sin is the transgression of God's law, are you saying Jesus was an "imperfect law follower". Perhaps you think it wasn't necessary for Him to be a LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH?
If you continue on with this obvious dislike of me and everything I post, you'll end up with an ulcer...or worse. Just a friendly word of advise. Let it go, Joe. My posting my beliefs on a forum should not cause you to build up so much resentment.... such as you display with every post you make.
Ephesians 4:31-32 said:
Actually, I regard the OT quite highly. I have no doubt I'm more familiar with it than you are from what I've seen. You pick out a word like mercy, but fail to understand it's purpose. Like everything else in the OT, it points to Christ.
Eventide
Member
Not at all, it's what the word of God says plainly and teaches.. here's the 1st grade quiz that you can't seem to pass..
What must I do to be saved ?
a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved..
b) Nothing...
No doubt about that !
Oooopppppsss... you failed the simple test again... stop copying Calvin's paper and you might have a chance..
I do believe that belief is the work of God.. it's His gospel, it's His Spirit, it's His conviction, and He alone seals a person with the Spirit of promise after a person trusts in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after they believe..
I believe that I was saved when God sealed me with the Holy Spirit of promise, after I trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel..
Ready to retake that test now ?
Grubal Muruch
Member
Excellent post!!!
jasoncran
Member
God wasnt mericiful to david?
and thine sin is put away for thou shall not die nevertheless the sword shall not depart from thine house. for what thou didest in secret thy sons shall do in the open.
david said this for its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the lord. sounds like a plea for mercy. and he was granted it more then we have been told.
francisdesales
Member
What makes you think I resent you personally? I am attacking error, and for the time being, the source is you...
Jesus spent much of His time in Scriptures attacking error - not out of resentment, but out of the "hope", if you will, that conversion would take place.
We love the sinner, hate the sin, correct?
You can't hide behind that excuse anymore. You have stated often enough on your ideas of mercy being granted as a result of the perfect law follower (whom the Jews didn't know of during the ENTIRE TIME of the OT...) There is nothing in the OT that speaks of God awaiting a perfect Law follower.
I have already posted Psalm 130, that tells us that God does NOT mark us in our sin, does not expect perfection - "for who could stand"? In addition, the Psalms also tell us that God "forgets" our sins, washes us "pure and clean" - even in the OT. The OT does not speak of holding sins in abeyance until the perfect Law follower came, hundreds of years later...
Perhaps you have found that elusive Scripture citation from the OT that shows that God did?
In a sense, yes, because God's plan called for that act of love. Was God forced to send His Son to die out of necessity to fulfill the Law's requirement? No. The Law has no power over God. God could have saved mankind in a number of ways. The problem I see in your point is the incorrect notion of God requiring perfection before His Justice is satisfied. That is what we would rationally OWE Him, IF He demanded it. But where does God demand such perfection from man?
Jesus died for our sake as an expiation, a vicarious offering for the sake of others. That is the reason for any sacrifice. To ask God for mercy. To intercede for ourselves and others. Christ's self-sacrifice was an intercessionary offering of self for the sake of others.
The difference in our points is that you suggest that Christ was OWED something and that God waited to grant mercy until that perfection was achieved (works salvation) while I state that Christ is INTERCEDING, ASKING for the gift of salvation (grace, a freely given gift). Being that God is a Lover, loves His Son, the Father would NOT choose to ignore the pleas of His interceding Son, given that total act of obedience and humility to the will of the Father.
Thus, God grants mercy to mankind due to the intercession of Jesus. ASKING for mercy, not demanding it as payment. For example:
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, [even] Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec Heb 6:20
A priest offers sacrifice for the sake of begging God for mercy. Interceding for the people. Jesus offers Himself - which is what the lamb of sacrifice of the OT POINTS to. The perfect offering made - NOT to satisfy perfect Justice - but that the prayers of a righteous man are effective to the "heart" of God.
STILL, God grants mercy freely as a gift. But with such a High Priest, how could the Father refuse such an act made by the Son???!!!!
Jesus came for a different reason than you suggest. There was no requirement that God's "Justice" be satisfied by having His Beloved Son killed. WHOM was God paying this to?
Putting words in quotes does not mean one is mocking something...
There is no use in trying to say that I am making such a ridiculous statement. Let's concentrate on your statements that you have explicitly repeated...
What makes you think I dislike you? Hate the sin. Love the sinner.
Regards
francisdesales
Member
We'll let the forum be the judge of how much you know of the OT.
One would expect some Scriptures to back up your claims...
Sadly, there is nothing. More prayerful reading might be in order. "Reading" the Bible is more than playing trivial pursuit...
Regards
Eventide
Member
In the volume of the book it is written of Me..
This I would have to disagree with Francis.. because the OT is all about the Lord Jesus Christ, and the LORD could not have saved us in any other way than what was written in the scriptures.
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.
I could be reading your comments wrong, although I would disagree with this statement as it comes across.
This I would have to disagree with Francis.. because the OT is all about the Lord Jesus Christ, and the LORD could not have saved us in any other way than what was written in the scriptures.
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.
I could be reading your comments wrong, although I would disagree with this statement as it comes across.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
even
It plainly says not of works, lest any man should boast Eph 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
It plainly says not of works, lest any man should boast Eph 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eventide
Member
I agree, and we know that believing is the work of God.. I didn't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ out of the clear blue.. the Spirit convicts, the gospel goes forth.. it's all His doing.. and of course the same BIBLE says that we must believe in order to be saved..
Ready for that test..?
What must I do to be saved ?
a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
b) Nothing..
Come on... I know you know this one.. !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
even
Everything a believer does is a work of God in them to do it Phil 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The point is, believing is something man does, or do you believe God believes for man ? Is that what you believe by quoting Jn 6:29 ? Do you believe that verse is saying that God believes for man ?
Everything a believer does is a work of God in them to do it Phil 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The point is, believing is something man does, or do you believe God believes for man ? Is that what you believe by quoting Jn 6:29 ? Do you believe that verse is saying that God believes for man ?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Paul was speaking to the Phillipian Jailor in Acts 16 was he not. Are you and I that Phillipian Jailor that Paul was conversing with ? Well I am not.
Now I am going to tell you once more what I did to get myself saved. I did not do anything to get myself saved, Christ saved me by His Grace, by His Mercy,and not because of anything I did.
Now unless you want to ask me what Christ did to save sinners, I have nothing else for you. I am not here to boast about what I did or did not do. I will leave that up to you and your man centered I denied myself to get saved salvation..