Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[gordon777]

Are those in a ditch cut off from life? No. Injured, perhaps, and dirty, but they are not destroyed by merely falling into a ditch.

Those blind leaders, are they destroyed ?


Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.



The guide of the blind ( those in the law) break the law and dishonour God. ( committing adultery, idolatry.)

They blaspheme the name of God among the Gentiles.

When the uncircumcision ( the Gentiles) keep the righteousness of the law ( seeing and not blind in a ditch) they are counted circumcision, and the blind leader is judged for transgressing the law by the letter and circumcision. ( being in the flesh and not in the Spirit of Christ.)

They are damned, as what is not of faith is sin. ( die in their sins as Jesus said to them for not believing in Him.)




John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.


Romans 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[gordon777]

Nope. Paul is really clear at the beginning of Romans 8 to locate the reason for freedom from condemnation, not in the believer's deeds but in their position in Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1-2
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

They are freed from sin as Romans 8:2 shows, ( being in the flesh) as to be in Christ Jesus, Romans 8:1, is to be in the fruits of the Spirit, not the works of the flesh.


Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[gordon777]

Not to those perfectly justified and sanctified by trusting in Christ as Savior and yielding to him as Lord. These may be "carnal babes in Christ," "milk drinkers," straying into legalistic law-keeping, having lost their first love, lukewarm in their walk with God, and STILL be part of God's family. God's grace is truly amazing!

Romans 5:20
20 ...where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Are they perfectly justified and sanctified carnal babes in Christ, who know not that the temple of God is themselves, and the Spirit of God dwells in us ?

They cant be, because they had to be told that if any man ( of them) defiles the temple of God ( continuing on in works of the flesh) they shall be destroyed, because the temple of God is holy, which temple we are.


1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.


1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.





So that is not straying into legalistic law keeping, it is being unaware of the danger of being carnal. ( flesh) to be destroyed, and not Spirit, for our body to be kept holy.



Was it because they left their first first ?

The first love is the first works, so no work is done at all by those who do not do the first works.

The first works/first commandment, is to hear ( believe) that the Lord is our God and is one Lord, ( the Lord Jesus Christ.) to love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, and all of our mind, and to love our neighbour as ourselves. ( to leave our first love is to have never believed in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.)



Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.




Lukewarm is when the works are only good for Christ to spue that person out of is mouth.

They do not know ( remember they know not the temple of God is them as they are unholy being carnal and will be destroyed for defiling.) they are wretched and miserable and poor, and blind, ( remember the blind in the ditch are damned, for what is not of faith is sin.) and naked. ( will be ashamed wen Christ appears, as we need to be as Adam and Eve when they had no shame.)

Jesus rebukes, for them to be zealous ( always zealously affected in a good thing, which they forgot how to be that blessing.)

If we hear His voice ( hear O Israel to love the Lord our God who is one Lord Jesus Christ.) He comes in to us, but we have to open the door of truth, and close satan's door of deceit.


Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[gordon777]

To whom was Jesus speaking and when? To Christians? No. After the atonement of the cross? No. Did he say anything about trusting in himself as Savior and Lord? No. Did he say anything about the indwelling Holy Spirit? No. He was speaking to Jews still under the Old Covenant from an Old Covenant perspective. His words to them in such a context have little bearing upon those walking with God under the New Covenant.

I believe a Christian walking daily in the Spirit can be a whole lot more holy, a whole lot less sinful, than they often believe they can be. Sinless perfection, however, is nonsense - particularly because no one knows what such perfection actually is practically and because nowhere in Scripture is such a condition held out as possible in practice to the born-again person. They are made perfect in Christ who alone is perfect.

Christians are those who believe in the words of Christ, and then Jesus is speaking to Christians, always and only.

His words are for ever, are they for non Christians who perish forever, they cant be.

The words of God are for the godly, who live on with Him forever, HIs Word in them.



Perfection, sinlessness, nonsense to the devil, but why would it be nonsense to God, as God you conclude is that sinless perfection.

To be in Christ is to be out of the sins of the devil and this world, not to be in them still, and that is what is nonsense according to simple scripture and truth.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn, we do not get born ( again) and be so different and remaining in deceit, doing evil, that is an heretical doctrine at best, we were made meet to be inheritors of the saints in light, ( not yet under satan and works of darkness.)



Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

 

[gordon777]

The works in James justify a man before other men and not before God (Romans 4:2).

What Cain did was not in accordance with faith, and yes, he was not accepted because of what he did. It showed that he was placing his trust in his own personal merit (represented by the fruits of the field) rather than what Jesus did for him on the Cross (represented by Abel's sacrifice of a lamb).

If Cain had made a sacrifice in accordance with God's prescribed method of redemption according to faith, then he would have exhibited faith and he would have been accepted for doing well.

Those who seek immortality by doing good do so because of faith. If they do it for any other reason, they fall short and their works will not be sufficient to save them.

You said that what I preached didn't align with scripture. Yet I gave scripture to substantiate what I was preaching. Did you look up that scripture?

Certain people have said that there are contradictions in the Bible. But when you look closer, you find that there are none.

So, I would suggest comparing the contrasting scriptures and coming to a conclusion that reconciles them in your mind.

The works in James, are before God, not before men.

Abraham did not seek glory before men, you are adding that.

The works that we remember about Abraham, as in James, are before God, and Abraham did them through belief in God, which is the glory.



Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.





Cain was of the wicked one, and all who are of the wicked one do evil works, not righteous as Abel.



1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.



Jesus told of the wicked ones, they are the seed of the wicked one, ( as Cain.) that is why the wicked one can take the word away from them, as they are of that wicked one who sowed them.( hardened hearts of no faith.)

But the good seed ( as Abel.) are sown by the Son of man, into good ground, so they bear fruit,



Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.



Now we are written to, because of that planting, to know Him that was from the beginning, ( through His Spirit.) to be strong, for the Word of God to abide in us, ( not taken out of their hardened heart, being the seed sown of satan, as they are of the wicked one as Cain.) to overcome the wicked one.

To overcome the wicked one is being born again, to sin not, by keeping themselves. ( not keeping any advice fr4om the vain wicked one, or those of the wicked one.)



1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[gordon777]

To again stop vain talk, and prove the simple truth, unless Jesus Christ had done the work of faith, ( to die for us) we would have empty promises, and not a fulfilled promise to believe in and FOLLOW AFTER. ( faith without works is dead being alone/God would be alone without us believing in is rising from the dead for us to live with Him, AND INSTEAD BROUGHT MANY SONS TO GLORY..)

Here is faith made PERFECT. ( THESE WORKS JESUS DID/FINISHED, BEAR WITNES OF HIM FOR US TO BE ABLE TO BELIEVE IN HIM RISING FROM THE DEAD TO RIGHTEOUSNESS/ETERNAL LIFE, WHICH IS OUR HOPE WE ARE SAVED BY.)



John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.


John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

 

[gordon777]

The secret to salvation is precisely not being swayed by the cunning craftiness of men, what else would it be.

Anyone reading here, read the verses below.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

 

[gordon777]

I do not want to hear any more words of uncleanness and greediness, I wont tolerate the forum's " opinions" for too much longer.

 

[Butch5]

The works in James justify a man before other men and not before God (Romans 4:2).

Sorry, but that doesn't align with Scriputre. The passage says nothing about Abraham being justified before men. James is talking about a faith that saves and one that doesn't does faith save someone before men? No. Can someone be saved by man? No. The passage has nothing to do with one's appearance before men.

This is an argument that's been developed because people misunderstand Paul's arguments on works. That misunderstanding doesn't align with what James said so people try to redefine what James said to mean something else, rather than considering they may be misunderstanding Paul. You see, Luther misunderstood Paul which is shown by his "Faith Alone" doctrine. However, Luther's understanding has Paul contradicting himself . That's how we know Luther misunderstood

What Cain did was not in accordance with faith, and yes, he was not accepted because of what he did. It showed that he was placing his trust in his own personal merit (represented by the fruits of the field) rather than what Jesus did for him on the Cross (represented by Abel's sacrifice of a lamb).

If Cain had made a sacrifice in accordance with God's prescribed method of redemption according to faith, then he would have exhibited faith and he would have been accepted for doing well.

His trust for what? You seem to be reading an awful lot into what Cain thought. God said if Cain did well je would be accepted. I'll take God at His word without reading my doctrine into the passage

Those who seek immortality by doing good do so because of faith. If they do it for any other reason, they fall short and their works will not be sufficient to save them.

Whatever the reason, they're seeking eternal life by doing good works. That shows us that good works are necessary to achieve eternal life Thus they are necessary to be saved.

You said that what I preached didn't align with scripture. Yet I gave scripture to substantiate what I was preaching. Did you look up that scripture?

But that assumes you properly understand those passages. I would submit that you're misunderstanding them.

Certain people have said that there are contradictions in the Bible. But when you look closer, you find that there are none.

Agreed

So, I would suggest comparing the contrasting scriptures and coming to a conclusion that reconciles them in your mind.

I have. I've spend many years doing so. I've also spend years studying the doctrines of Clavin and Luther. I've compared their doctrines to those of the first Christians and found that they don't align. Since the first Christians were taught by Jesus and the apostles, I have to believe they are correct and Luther and Calvin are wrong.

 

[justbyfaith]

Abraham was justified by belief in God, counting him righteous.


Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.



Abraham had done no work yet, to be justified before God, Abraham had believed in the work God would be doing.


Isaac was born as God had promised, and when tried offered up Isaac, his only begotten son, of whom God had said in Isaac his seed would be called, accounting that God was able to raise the dead, and received him as a figure. ( to Christ being risen for the promise of eternal life, the only begotten of the Father from the dead..)



Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


Abraham not only showed his faith was genuine, but also Abraham was justified by that work, to make faith perfect ( it is not perfect until then)

This does more than show genuine faith, it fulfils the scripture for a an to be justified b y works and not by faith only.




James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.



Exactly as the scripture ALSO shows, we are justified by doing, not by not doing:



Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

In Genesis 15:6, Abraham was accounted as righteous by his faith alone apart from the work he did later of offering his son Isaac on the altar. It was right at that juncture, in Genesis 15:6, that God counted his faith as righteousness.

Of course, in believing that his seed (through Isaac) would be as the sand on the seashore, this would have to be Abraham's reasoning when God told him to offer his son Isaac on the altar, when Isaac had no progenitors: God would raise Isaac from the dead.

For three days Abraham took the grueling trip up the mountain believing that his son was as good as dead.

When God told him to stay his hand and not to slay his son, Abraham received Isaac back from the dead in a figure.

But his faith in the LORD was demonstrated by his action to offer up Isaac.

Yet, he had this faith, and was justified by it, at the juncture of Genesis 15:6; before he had any good works to show for it.

If Abraham had died before being able to show his faith in offering up his son, he would have gone straight to heaven; for God could see that his faith was genuine.

Indeed; man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7).

Sorry, but that doesn't align with Scriputre. The passage says nothing about Abraham being justified before men. James is talking about a faith that saves and one that doesn't does faith save someone before men? No. Can someone be saved by man? No. The passage has nothing to do with one's appearance before men.

This is an argument that's been developed because people misunderstand Paul's arguments on works. That misunderstanding doesn't align with what James said so people try to redefine what James said to mean something else, rather than considering they may be misunderstanding Paul. You see, Luther misunderstood Paul which is shown by his "Faith Alone" doctrine. However, Luther's understanding has Paul contradicting himself . That's how we know Luther misunderstood

His trust for what? You seem to be reading an awful lot into what Cain thought. God said if Cain did well je would be accepted. I'll take God at His word without reading my doctrine into the passage

Whatever the reason, they're seeking eternal life by doing good works. That shows us that good works are necessary to achieve eternal life Thus they are necessary to be saved.

But that assumes you properly understand those passages. I would submit that you're misunderstanding them.

Agreed

I have. I've spend many years doing so. I've also spend years studying the doctrines of Clavin and Luther. I've compared their doctrines to those of the first Christians and found that they don't align. Since the first Christians were taught by Jesus and the apostles, I have to believe they are correct and Luther and Calvin are wrong.

Romans 4:2 teaches us that if Abraham was justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not before God.

If not before God then before whom, if not men?

James 2:14-26 is speaking of people being declared righteous in the sight of other people because of their works.

This has a bearing even on the judgment that will be meted out to them. For will not every person be judged by the twenty-four elders?

 

[Butch5]

Romans 4:2 teaches us that if Abraham was justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not before God.

If not before God then before whom, if not men?

The problem is that Christians have been taught to proof text. We take one verse out of a book at claim it means xyz. Its amazing. We do t do this with any other book. We don't a sentence that say the bmBritish won and claim the British won the American Revolution. Why, because the context tells us that wrong.

So, if we look at Romans 4:2 in context we find that in Chaoter 3 Paul begins to make an argument that the Mosaic Law cannot save anyone.. He continues this argument into chapter 4. Here is the context for Romans 4:2

Romans 3:19–20 (NKJV): 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

His argument is that no one is justified before God by keeping the Mosaic Law. He is in no way opposed to James who is speaking of doing good deeds, like helping the poor and widows. Paul is saying no one is justified before God by keeping the Mosaic Law whereas James is saying a man is justified by helping the poor and widows. There is nothing to reconcile as they're both talking about different works.

James 2:14-26 is speaking of people being declared righteous in the sight of other people because of their works.

This has a bearing even on the judgment that will be meted out to them. For will not every person be judged by the twenty-four elders?

The problem is that Abraham wasn't before men when that happened it was him, Isaac, and thr Angel of the Lord.

As I said, the justified before men argument is a an argument made to try and reconcile the misunderstanding of what Paul said.

 

[justbyfaith]

However, Butch5,

when you look at certain other scriptures that teach us that salvation is not of works, you cannot say that all of them are speaking of the works of Mosaic law. Some of them are speaking of works, period; and therefore, in topical context, all of them are speaking of works, period.

See Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:3-7, Romans 11:5-6.

 

[justbyfaith]

The problem is that Abraham wasn't before men when that happened it was him, Isaac, and thr Angel of the Lord.

We have the story of how Abraham was justified by his works; and we are also aware of the fact that he has whereof to glory; just not before God.

Abraham's justification before God was by his faith alone (Romans 4:1-8, Genesis 15:6).

 

[Tenchi]

I do not want to hear any more words of uncleanness and greediness, I wont tolerate the forum's " opinions" for too much longer.

I, for one, will be glad when your toleration level is exceeded and you cease to post. Virtually every response you make to my posts misunderstands and mischaracterizes my remarks. And then, having not properly understood or fully considered my remarks, you shoot off in all directions in attempted reply to them, in the process handling God's word in a careless (but convenient) way, superficially connecting unrelated passages to one another and churning out twisted doctrine, as a result. What's worse, even after you have been exhaustively challenged and corrected in your mistaken understanding of what I've posted, you refuse to acknowledge any of your errors but resort to personal attack, and self-righteous decrying of the very things YOU do.

I think if God got proper hold of you and you allowed Him to school you correctly in His Truth, you might be a very useful vessel to Him, but as things stand right now, you posts are "the empty barrel that makes the most noise."

 

[Butch5]

We have the story of how Abraham was justified by his works; and we are also aware of the fact that he has whereof to glory; just not before God.

Abraham's justification before God was by his faith alone (Romans 4:1-8, Genesis 15:6).

Again, look at the context of the argument.

Sorry, my friend, but again, what you say doesn't align with Scripture. What I find amazing is that many claim justification by faith alone. However, the phrase "faith alone" only appears once in Scripture and it says the exact opposite of what people claim. It says a man IS NOT justified by "faith alone". How ironic is that the phrase appears only once and people claim it says exact opposite of what it actually says.

 

[Butch5]

However, Butch5,

when you look at certain other scriptures that teach us that salvation is not of works, you cannot say that all of them are speaking of the works of Mosaic law. Some of them are speaking of works, period; and therefore, in topical context, all of them are speaking of works, period.

See Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:3-7, Romans 11:5-6.

Actually, we can say they are all speaking of the Mosaic Law. If we look at the historical setting we see that one of the main issues that Paul had to deal with was that of the Judaizers. These were Jews coming out of Jerusalem who were telling Paul's converts that it was necessary for them to Keep the Law of Moses. Acts 15 is all about this.

Acts 15:1 (NKJV): And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

This was such an issue in Paul's ministry that the Holy Spirit had him go to Jerusalem to the elders and apostles to deal with it.

Galatians 2:1–5 (NKJV): Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Here we see that Paul, through Revelation, went to meet with the other apostles about these false brethren, those of Acts 15:1, who were telling his converts they had to follow the Law of Moses. Notice he makes the point that the apostles didn't require Titus, a Greek, to be circumcised. If it had been necessary the apostle would have required it of Titus, but they didn't. If you read Acts 15 you'll see how this all played out. It was the Holy Spirit who reseolved the issue. James concludes, along with the Holy Spirit that it's not necessary for the Gentiles to keep the Law of Moses.

It would seem that if this issue was such that the Holy Spirit had to intervene, it was a major issue that had to be addressed. If you read all of Paul's teachings on, works that don't save, "in context", you'll find in virtually every one, the Mosaic Law is somewhere in the context.

Look at Ephesians 2. 'For by grace are you save through faith and that not of yourselves,... not of works lest any man should boast'. What's the context? The Mosaic Law.

Ephesians 2:11–14 (NKJV): 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Christ Our Peace
Ephesians 2:14–16 (NKJV): 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Notice he says they, the Gentiles, which are called uncircumcision, by the Circumcision, the Jews, have been brought near to the covenants of Israel. How has that happened? Christ has broken down the middle wall of separation by abolishing the Law of commandedments contained in ordinances. That is the Mosaic Law. What Paul is saying here to the Ephesians is that you are saved by Grace through faith, not by keeping the Law of Moses. Again, remember, one of, if not, the biggest problems Paul had in his ministry was that of the Judaizers telling his converts that they must keep the Law of Moses in addition to their faith.

Again, we see that he is addressing the Mosaic Law.

 

[grace2]

About OP:

Here is what the Bible says:

1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

4. 1 John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

5. 1 John 2:4
◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

6. 1 John 3:22
◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

7. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

8. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

9. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

10. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

11. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

[justbyfaith]

Clearly God imputed righteousness without works (Romans 4:6) and saves us "not by works of righteousness which we have done" (Titus 3:5).

This is not to say that those who are redeemed will not be zealous of good works.

For those who are justified by grace have been regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost (again, Titus 3:5); and such a thing produces an attitude that is conducive to good works.

But the scriptures are clear that it is not our works that save us...we can only be regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost through faith in Jesus and His shed blood.

Good works ultimately follow.

As I said before, Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness at the juncture of Genesis 15:6.

He would later demonstrate that faith by offering his son on the altar.

But if Abraham had died before being able to offer up his son, he would have gone straight to heaven.

God looked down at Abraham in Genesis 15:6 and accounted him as righteous because of his faith alone in the LORD and His promises. He looked on Abraham's heart and saw a genuine faith.

Again, that faith would be demonstrated for his progeny a little later.

But he was not accounted as righteous when he demonstrated his faith.

He was accounted as righteous at the first moment that it existed in his heart.

 

[Butch5]

Clearly God imputed righteousness without works (Romans 4:6) and saves us "not by works of righteousness which we have done" (Titus 3:5).

This is not to say that those who are redeemed will not be zealous of good works.

For those who are justified by grace have been regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost (again, Titus 3:5); and such a thing produces an attitude that is conducive to good works.

But the scriptures are clear that it is not our works that save us...we can only be regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost through faith in Jesus and His shed blood.

Good works ultimately follow.

As I said before, Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness at the juncture of Genesis 15:6.

He would later demonstrate that faith by offering his son on the altar.

But if Abraham had died before being able to offer up his son, he would have gone straight to heaven.

God looked down at Abraham in Genesis 15:6 and accounted him as righteous because of his faith alone in the LORD and His promises. He looked on Abraham's heart and saw a genuine faith.

Again, that faith would be demonstrated for his progeny a little later.

But he was not accounted as righteous when he demonstrated his faith.

He was accounted as righteous at the first moment that it existed in his heart.

He imputed righteousness without the works of the Mosaic Law. That's the argument that Paul is making. His wohle point is that the Mosaic Law doesn't save. What better way to prove that point than to show a man who was justified before the Mosaic Law ever existed. If Abraham was justified before the Mosaic Law existed, then obviously the Law was not the means of justification

 

[popsthebuilder]

Phl 3:1 (nlt), Whatever happens, my dear brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord. I never get tired of telling you these things, and I do it to safeguard your faith.
Phl 3:2, Watch out for those dogs, those people who do evil, those mutilators who say you must be circumcised to be saved.
Phl 3:3, For we who worship by the Spirit of God are the ones who are truly circumcised. We rely on what Christ Jesus has done for us. We put no confidence in human effort,
Phl 3:4, though I could have confidence in my own effort if anyone could. Indeed, if others have reason for confidence in their own efforts, I have even more!
Phl 3:5, I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin—a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.
Phl 3:6, I was so zealous that I harshly persecuted the church. And as for righteousness, I obeyed the law without fault.
Phl 3:7, I once thought these things were valuable, but now I consider them worthless because of what Christ has done.
Phl 3:8, Yes, everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ
Phl 3:9, and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.

Here in this passage, we find that Paul was perfectly blameless according to the law. He advocates not trusting in such a thing as that to save you. In verse 6, he was blameless; but in verses 7 and 8, he counts this as but loss and also as dung in order that he might have a relationship with Jesus Christ. He threw away his blamelessness as though it were garbage.

It is determined by Paul that there is a righteousness that is better than the righteousness of the law; a righteousness that is of God that comes by faith.

Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees to clean the inside of the cup and platter because up till now they had only cleansed the outside, so they were like whitewashed tombs that were full of dead men's bones; of all extortion and wickedness. Yet the Pharisees were perfectly righteous according to the outward requirements of the law; just as Paul says he was, here in this passage.

Paul says in Galatians,

Gal 2:19 (nlt), For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God.

When Paul stopped focusing on the law as a set of do's and don'ts to be kept in order to be saved, and placed his faith and hope in Jesus Christ, he found that he was regenerated and renewed on the inside.

Tit 3:5 (nlt), he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit.

The love of the Lord was shed abroad in his heart.

Rom 5:5 (nlt), And this hope will not lead to disappointment. For we know how dearly God loves us, because he has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.

Thus the inside of the cup and platter was cleansed; and he received the righteousness which is of God by faith.

To do this he had to throw away his blamelessness according to the law; which he had obtained through his own self-effort in attempting to keep a set of do's and don'ts.

Then, in loving God and neighbor, the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in him in the practical sense because of the work that Jesus had performed on the inside of Paul.

Yet in loving neighbor and even enemy are we not fulfilling the law of Christ, the law of the Spirit? The law of GOD written on the hearts and minds of the believer? These things are within our hearts, placed there by GOD for a reason right? Are those which belong to Him too those that know not/ heed not HIS voice? The contents of our heart is known by the doing of our hands, is it not?