Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[justbyfaith]

Abraham was justified by works (James 2:21-24); just not before God (Romans 4:2).

Before God, Abraham was justified by faith alone, at the juncture of Genesis 15:6 (not 14:6);

And his faith was shown to be genuine, by his works, when he offered his son Isaac on the altar.

 

[Tenchi]

It's more accurately God's works by faith justification.

Faith alone doctrine separates faith from works, which God condemns as dead faith alone

???

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Paul could not be clearer, I think, than he is here that works follow spiritual regeneration, they are the result, the by-product, of salvation, NOT the means of salvation. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works, not by them.

It follows, then, that if good works have nothing to do with our being saved, they have nothing to do with our remaining saved. The born-again are "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6) and on no other basis but their being in him are they adopted by God. Since God always accepts Christ, those in Christ by faith are likewise always accepted by God.

Titus 3:5-7
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Here, again, Paul is crystal clear that works have nothing whatever to do with a person being born-again spiritually. It is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9; Philippians 1:19), that "washes," "regenerates," and "renews" the lost person; by spiritual baptism, the Spirit places them in Christ thus making them justified and sanctified before God, clothed in the perfect righteousness of the Savior. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Romans 13:14)

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Once more, Scripture explicitly denies the idea that works have any part in a person's salvation. It is by God's purpose and grace, extended to us in our Savior, Jesus Christ, that we are saved.

To make good works in any measure the basis for a person's salvation is to diminish the saving work and role of Jesus Christ and to deny the plain declaration of God's word. Works-salvation is "another gospel" a foul, destructive corruption of the Truth that binds people in fear and legalism.

It's necessary to justification.

No, it absolutely is not. No man can justify himself (Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 5:4). This is precisely why a divine Savior was necessary.

And for the second time, bearing fruit is not inevitable. Jesus says His branches not bearing fruit are cut off as dead (John 15) It's the result of having dead faith alone without works of Christ.

John 15:6 refers to those who've never been born-again, not of one who is saved and then lost. Verse 6 stands in contrasting parallelism to verses 4 and 5, which parallelism was common to ancient Jewish thought and literature. Verses 4 and 5 describe the born-again person and verse 6 the person who has not been born-again. These verses don't describe the same person, who moves from a born-again state into an unborn-again one.

The idea that these three verses emphasize the necessity of good works to salvation totally ignores what they actually say:

John 15:4-5
4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

What Jesus clearly indicated here is that no one can "bear fruit" except it is as a result of his life in them. And this life is obtained only by "abiding in him," which is to say, by being born-again.

John 15:6
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Suddenly, Jesus moved from "you" - his disciples to whom he was speaking - to "anyone," "them," and "they," clearly referring generally to anyone not "in me." In this it is very evident, I think, that Jesus was not speaking of the same person in verse 6 that he was in verses 4 and 5, but of the contrasting opposite to the person abiding in him: one who is not abiding in him, that is, an unsaved person. Jesus is simply defining two basic categories - saved and lost - into which every person falls. There is, then, in John 15:4-6 no teaching of a saved-and-lost doctrine. Only if one already has put on the lenses of works-salvation does this passage appear as grounds for such a false doctrine.

It is necessary to first add Christ's works to our faith to ensure we bear fruit, and not be found barren and dead. (2 Peter 1)

We are saved for, or unto, good works, not by them. About this Scripture is repeatedly explicit and very clear. See above.

You can call it what you wish, but without the works of Christ added to our faith, our faith is dead, and we are cut off from Christ's vine.

Nope. Christ's righteousness is imputed (Romans 4:21-25) to those who trust in him as Savior and yield to him as Lord (Romans 10:9-10) and it is by this imputation of his perfect righteousness, by their "putting on Christ" by faith, that they are fully sanctified and justified and thus accepted by God. Good works have nothing whatever to do with this; they are only the inevitable consequence of a spiritually-regenerate and healthy life.

You can call it what you wish, but without the works of Christ added to our faith, our faith is dead, and we are cut off from Christ's vine.

This isn't what the rest of Scripture indicates. See above. James's words don't utterly negate all else in God's word. Instead, the rest of the NT qualifies and clarifies his remarks, mitigating against and constraining the very sort of extreme interpretation you want to give James's words.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

If we go on to do those works of Christ necessary to become sons of God.

Nope. False. See above.

I.e. dead and in danger of being cut off from the vine.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Just because being double-hearted in the faith is possible, it doesn't make it inevitable nor justified.

The verse you quote here from 2 Peter 1 says nothing about being saved and lost, only that the one "purged from his old sins" who lacks those things Peter listed in verses 5-7 is "blind" - not unsaved - and "cannot see afar off."

No one has said that being spiritually immature and carnal is "inevitable," or "justified," only that sin in the life of a believer is not proof-positive that they have lost their salvation. Good works are inevitable in the life of a born-again person if they are in a spiritually-nourishing circumstance: discipled well, supported and challenged by spiritually-mature fellow believers, feeding regularly and deeply on God's word, walking daily in the Spirit, etc. (Ephesians 4:11-16; 1 Peter 2:2; Matthew 4:4; Galatians 5:16, 24). If this is not the case, the sort of immaturity and carnality of the church at Corinth and in the seven churches of Revelation 2-3 (save the churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia), is the result. As Paul's letter to the Corinthians and John's letter to the seven churches illustrate, however, such immaturity and carnality does not equate to lost salvation.

The ones being so are cut off from the company of the saints, to shame them into repentance.

If not, then they are cut off from the vine by God.

Nope. This is nowhere stated in Scripture. Only the man in open adultery with his step-mother is cast out from the community of believers at Corinth. Paul doesn't cast out any of the other divisive, arrogant, selfish, carnal believers in the Corinthian church. Instead, he appeals to them to better living as fellow believers, brethren, temples of the Holy Spirit, and those in Christ.

And if they repent not, then they become the cursed field of briars and thorns rejected by God. (Heb 6)

Hebrews 6:4-8 is not speaking of truly born-again "milk drinkers," but of false brethren, false converts within the company of believers.

And Paul feared for them running in vain, and exhorted them to return to the Spirit by hearing of grace, that Christ be formed again in them.

The life of Christ was always in them; not, though, the character of Christ. Until they left off law-keeping, trying to reach God by way of good works, and settled instead into life in the Spirit, they could not hope to properly manifest Christ in their daily living (2 Corinthians 4:7-11; Romans 8:29).

If so, then both Judaizers and the Judaized remain brethren and sons of God.

How can the Judaizers be condemned, while those becoming like them are not?

Paul never referred to the Judaizers in the churches in Galatia as brethren; but he did call the born-again believers in Christ in the province of Galatia "brethren," and those who had "begun in the Spirit," and "children of God."

Jesus of course says they all go into the ditch, not just the leaders. (Matthew 15)(Luke 6)

Are those in a ditch cut off from life? No. Injured, perhaps, and dirty, but they are not destroyed by merely falling into a ditch.

True. Double heartedness was always a condemned error among the people of God. And God still commands repentance with a whole heart.

Yes, amen.

No more condemnation by faith alone, while also walking after the flesh, is of course false.

Nope. Paul is really clear at the beginning of Romans 8 to locate the reason for freedom from condemnation, not in the believer's deeds but in their position in Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1-2
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

It's called continuing in unrighteous works of the flesh, and those that are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Not to those perfectly justified and sanctified by trusting in Christ as Savior and yielding to him as Lord. These may be "carnal babes in Christ," "milk drinkers," straying into legalistic law-keeping, having lost their first love, lukewarm in their walk with God, and STILL be part of God's family. God's grace is truly amazing!

Romans 5:20
20 ...where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

This is a faith alone vain imagination, that thinks God still knows them as apple trees without the apples.

Nope. See above. In reality, it is thoroughly biblical.

Jesus says otherwise, that that the tree is known by the fruit. The Lord does not know any fruitless tree, especially not as His own.

The fruitless trees are cursed and cut down. (Luke 13:7) (Mark 11:13-14)

Do you believe it is possible for any Christian to live righteously and holily and daily walk as Jesus walked on earth?

To whom was Jesus speaking and when? To Christians? No. After the atonement of the cross? No. Did he say anything about trusting in himself as Savior and Lord? No. Did he say anything about the indwelling Holy Spirit? No. He was speaking to Jews still under the Old Covenant from an Old Covenant perspective. His words to them in such a context have little bearing upon those walking with God under the New Covenant.

I believe a Christian walking daily in the Spirit can be a whole lot more holy, a whole lot less sinful, than they often believe they can be. Sinless perfection, however, is nonsense - particularly because no one knows what such perfection actually is practically and because nowhere in Scripture is such a condition held out as possible in practice to the born-again person. They are made perfect in Christ who alone is perfect.

 

[Butch5]

As believers, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21 (kjv), Hebrews 8:8-10, Romans 8:4, Romans 8:7, Romans 7:6, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5).

The law of Christ is inclusive of the least of the commandments in the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-20).

I have stated my case that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament in certain posts in this forum.

If you are coming to God by means of your personal merit, your works, your law-keepimg, or your obedience; thinking that you are saved through such,

Then God requires of you that you obey the laws of the Old and New Testaments perfectly from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).

What you're saying here doesn't align with Scripture. God said to Cain, if you do well will you not be accepted? Whether or not Cain was accepted by God was based on what he did. And, that was before the Law of Moses even existed. Paul said to the Romans that those who continue in good deed are seeking immortality, eternal life. James said that Abraham's works worked with his faith and by works his faith was made complete. So we see that faith without works is incomplete. He said this faith doesn't save. We can only conclude that a complete faith saves. This requires works.

 

[Butch5]

???

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Paul could not be clearer, I think, than he is here that works follow spiritual regeneration, they are the result, the by-product, of salvation, NOT the means of salvation. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works, not by them.

It follows, then, that if good works have nothing to do with our being saved, they have nothing to do with our remaining saved. The born-again are "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6) and on no other basis but their being in him are they adopted by God. Since God always accepts Christ, those in Christ by faith are likewise always accepted by God.

Titus 3:5-7
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Here, again, Paul is crystal clear that works have nothing whatever to do with a person being born-again spiritually. It is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9; Philippians 1:19), that "washes," "regenerates," and "renews" the lost person; by spiritual baptism, the Spirit places them in Christ thus making them justified and sanctified before God, clothed in the perfect righteousness of the Savior. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Romans 13:14)

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Once more, Scripture explicitly denies the idea that works have any part in a person's salvation. It is by God's purpose and grace, extended to us in our Savior, Jesus Christ, that we are saved.

To make good works in any measure the basis for a person's salvation is to diminish the saving work and role of Jesus Christ and to deny the plain declaration of God's word. Works-salvation is "another gospel" a foul, destructive corruption of the Truth that binds people in fear and legalism.



No, it absolutely is not. No man can justify himself (Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 5:4). This is precisely why a divine Savior was necessary.



John 15:6 refers to those who've never been born-again, not of one who is saved and then lost. Verse 6 stands in contrasting parallelism to verses 4 and 5, which parallelism was common to ancient Jewish thought and literature. Verses 4 and 5 describe the born-again person and verse 6 the person who has not been born-again. These verses don't describe the same person, who moves from a born-again state into an unborn-again one.

The idea that these three verses emphasize the necessity of good works to salvation totally ignores what they actually say:

John 15:4-5
4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

What Jesus clearly indicated here is that no one can "bear fruit" except it is as a result of his life in them. And this life is obtained only by "abiding in him," which is to say, by being born-again.

John 15:6
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Suddenly, Jesus moved from "you" - his disciples to whom he was speaking - to "anyone," "them," and "they," clearly referring generally to anyone not "in me." In this it is very evident, I think, that Jesus was not speaking of the same person in verse 6 that he was in verses 4 and 5, but of the contrasting opposite to the person abiding in him: one who is not abiding in him, that is, an unsaved person. Jesus is simply defining two basic categories - saved and lost - into which every person falls. There is, then, in John 15:4-6 no teaching of a saved-and-lost doctrine. Only if one already has put on the lenses of works-salvation does this passage appear as grounds for such a false doctrine.



We are saved for, or unto, good works, not by them. About this Scripture is repeatedly explicit and very clear. See above.



Nope. Christ's righteousness is imputed (Romans 4:21-25) to those who trust in him as Savior and yield to him as Lord (Romans 10:9-10) and it is by this imputation of his perfect righteousness, by their "putting on Christ" by faith, that they are fully sanctified and justified and thus accepted by God. Good works have nothing whatever to do with this; they are only the inevitable consequence of a spiritually-regenerate and healthy life.



This isn't what the rest of Scripture indicates. See above. James's words don't utterly negate all else in God's word. Instead, the rest of the NT qualifies and clarifies his remarks, mitigating against and constraining the very sort of extreme interpretation you want to give James's words.

Continued below.

He's talking about the works of the Mosaic Law

 

[justbyfaith]

What you're saying here doesn't align with Scripture. God said to Cain, if you do well will you not be accepted? Whether or not Cain was accepted by God was based on what he did. And, that was before the Law of Moses even existed. Paul said to the Romans that those who continue in good deed are seeking immortality, eternal life. James said that Abraham's works worked with his faith and by works his faith was made complete. So we see that faith without works is incomplete. He said this faith doesn't save. We can only conclude that a complete faith saves. This requires works.

The works in James justify a man before other men and not before God (Romans 4:2).

What Cain did was not in accordance with faith, and yes, he was not accepted because of what he did. It showed that he was placing his trust in his own personal merit (represented by the fruits of the field) rather than what Jesus did for him on the Cross (represented by Abel's sacrifice of a lamb).

If Cain had made a sacrifice in accordance with God's prescribed method of redemption according to faith, then he would have exhibited faith and he would have been accepted for doing well.

Those who seek immortality by doing good do so because of faith. If they do it for any other reason, they fall short and their works will not be sufficient to save them.

You said that what I preached didn't align with scripture. Yet I gave scripture to substantiate what I was preaching. Did you look up that scripture?

Certain people have said that there are contradictions in the Bible. But when you look closer, you find that there are none.

So, I would suggest comparing the contrasting scriptures and coming to a conclusion that reconciles them in your mind.

 

[gordon777]

Abraham was justified by works (James 2:21-24); just not before God (Romans 4:2).

Before God, Abraham was justified by faith alone, at the juncture of Genesis 15:6 (not 14:6);

And his faith was shown to be genuine, by his works, when he offered his son Isaac on the altar.

Abraham was justified by belief in God, counting him righteous.


Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.



Abraham had done no work yet, to be justified before God, Abraham had believed in the work God would be doing.


Isaac was born as God had promised, and when tried offered up Isaac, his only begotten son, of whom God had said in Isaac his seed would be called, accounting that God was able to raise the dead, and received him as a figure. ( to Christ being risen for the promise of eternal life, the only begotten of the Father from the dead..)



Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


Abraham not only showed his faith was genuine, but also Abraham was justified by that work, to make faith perfect ( it is not perfect until then)

This does more than show genuine faith, it fulfils the scripture for a an to be justified b y works and not by faith only.




James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.



Exactly as the scripture ALSO shows, we are justified by doing, not by not doing:



Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[gordon777]

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Paul could not be clearer, I think, than he is here that works follow spiritual regeneration, they are the result, the by-product, of salvation, NOT the means of salvation. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works, not by them.

It follows, then, that if good works have nothing to do with our being saved, they have nothing to do with our remaining saved. The born-again are "accepted in the Beloved" (Ephesians 1:6) and on no other basis but their being in him are they adopted by God. Since God always accepts Christ, those in Christ by faith are likewise always accepted by God.

Faith is the gift of God, and faith in God is faith in the work that Jesus Christ finished, to rise from the dead.

No man can boast, because no man can do what Jesus Christ did, they can only believe in Him, to also rise with Him.

The good that Jesus Christ did, first the good news told to believe in, then Him fulfilling all, are what we follow, to believe in the Word and to follow Him, all is salvation, just as it was for Abraham, to believe in the promises of God, and to fulfil scripture by offering his only begotten son, as God did for us all with HIs only begotten Son Jesus Christ given to save us from death

We fulfil the righteousness of the law as told, because without that, the scripture and all things are not fulfilled, all is essential, all is why we live and do not die.

 

[gordon777]

Here, again, Paul is crystal clear that works have nothing whatever to do with a person being born-again spiritually. It is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9; Philippians 1:19), that "washes," "regenerates," and "renews" the lost person; by spiritual baptism, the Spirit places them in Christ thus making them justified and sanctified before God, clothed in the perfect righteousness of the Savior. (1 Corinthians 1:2, 30; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Romans 13:14)

2 Timothy 1:9
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

We are not saved by works we did, we are saved by believing in the work that Christ did. ( that is the purpose and grace of Christ, to die for us, to save us from wicked works.)



Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.



Cain is perfect example of that, being of the wicked one, who believed in wickedness, and not the righteousness of God, as Abel believed in. ( not being of the wicked one, but being of God.



1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[gordon777]

Once more, Scripture explicitly denies the idea that works have any part in a person's salvation. It is by God's purpose and grace, extended to us in our Savior, Jesus Christ, that we are saved.

To make good works in any measure the basis for a person's salvation is to diminish the saving work and role of Jesus Christ and to deny the plain declaration of God's word. Works-salvation is "another gospel" a foul, destructive corruption of the Truth that binds people in fear and legalism.

Knowing that we are reconciled to God away from wicked works, we then do the works God wants us to do, for salvation. ( which accompany salvation.)


Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 

[gordon777]

No, it absolutely is not. No man can justify himself (Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 5:4). This is precisely why a divine Savior was necessary.

The Saviour tells us how to justify ourselves:

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[gordon777]

We have to be worthy of the calling, not unworthy as this example:



1 Corinthians 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[gordon777]

Suddenly, Jesus moved from "you" - his disciples to whom he was speaking - to "anyone," "them," and "they," clearly referring generally to anyone not "in me." In this it is very evident, I think, that Jesus was not speaking of the same person in verse 6 that he was in verses 4 and 5, but of the contrasting opposite to the person abiding in him: one who is not abiding in him, that is, an unsaved person. Jesus is simply defining two basic categories - saved and lost - into which every person falls. There is, then, in John 15:4-6 no teaching of a saved-and-lost doctrine. Only if one already has put on the lenses of works-salvation does this passage appear as grounds for such a false doctrine.

Who showed you something about a works salvation ?


We know that those who do not have Jesus Christ in them are reprobate:


2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?




So of course those who are withered are reprobates:




John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.





Those who are ministers of satan do no good works, teach no good works, and are without fruit, as Christ said also.


John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

 

[gordon777]

We are saved for, or unto, good works, not by them. About this Scripture is repeatedly explicit and very clear. See above.

Yes everybody see the answers here, not just one side, there is another to hear, the good path of Jesus Christ, straight and not crooked.

The present truth is to to be taken from belief in darkness and evil, to good and godliness.

Charity, godliness, patience, brotherly kindness, is the knowledge of belief in the rising of Christ from the dead, ( from the selfish, evil behaviours we die for) to risen from the dead to holiness in Jesus Christ, to no longer hear vain mans deception, it is finished, as we can now see. ( the Spirit of faith ended them.)



2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

[gordon777]

Nope. Christ's righteousness is imputed (Romans 4:21-25) to those who trust in him as Savior and yield to him as Lord (Romans 10:9-10) and it is by this imputation of his perfect righteousness, by their "putting on Christ" by faith, that they are fully sanctified and justified and thus accepted by God. Good works have nothing whatever to do with this; they are only the inevitable consequence of a spiritually-regenerate and healthy life.

Yes, put on Christ, fully sanctified and justified by not making provision to the flesh to fulfil its lusts, by putting on bowels of mercies instead, kindness, humbleness, meekness, longsuffering, forbearing, forgiving, and above all charity put on, the bond of perfectness.


Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

 

[gordon777]

The verse you quote here from 2 Peter 1 says nothing about being saved and lost, only that the one "purged from his old sins" who lacks those things Peter listed in verses 5-7 is "blind" - not unsaved - and "cannot see afar off."

The verses of course show how our calling and election is made unsure, by being unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. ( as Jesus said of the branch withered and not bearing fruit, as in Hebrews bearing thorns and of the false teachers who are without fruit and are twice dead.)

We instead make our calling and election more sure, to DO THOSE THINGS, to NEVER FALL.


2 Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[gordon777]

Nope. This is nowhere stated in Scripture. Only the man in open adultery with his step-mother is cast out from the community of believers at Corinth. Paul doesn't cast out any of the other divisive, arrogant, selfish, carnal believers in the Corinthian church. Instead, he appeals to them to better living as fellow believers, brethren, temples of the Holy Spirit, and those in Christ.

A brother who is a fornicator, covetous, or idolater, railer or drunkard, extortion, are doing wickedness, and are then a wicked person. ( they are not reconciled to God from wicked works, as we see Apostle Paul was reconciled as example for us to follow, never hearing for a moment those who dispute and accuse Paul of still doing wiuckedness, just because they do it..)


1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

 

[gordon777]

Hebrews 6:4-8 is not speaking of truly born-again "milk drinkers," but of false brethren, false converts within the company of believers.

Those who bear thorns bear deception, and a milk drinker is a good tree, and a deceiver is a wolf in sheep's clothing, who try to deceive but have no ability to any more, because just as Jesus spoke of the branch withered and not bearing fruit to be cast away, these also are to be cut down and thrown into the fire, for all who bear thorns and not good fruit only, but who have only evil fruits, which is how WE KNOW THEM.


Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[gordon777]

The life of Christ was always in them; not, though, the character of Christ. Until they left off law-keeping, trying to reach God by way of good works, and settled instead into life in the Spirit, they could not hope to properly manifest Christ in their daily living (2 Corinthians 4:7-11; Romans 8:29).

Of course it is the opposite to what you said.

The words and truth shows, they had thought good, and the blessing they were being they stopped being.

It was good when they were zealously affected always in a good thing, but they left off the good, to do nothing. ( the law is doing nothing good/being reprobate, it is not of faith, faith is unto righteousness/goodness.)



Galatians 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

Galatians 4:18 But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.
19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,




To not run in vain, to not receive the grace of God in vain, is to do what the grace of God is given to us for. ( any other talk is nonsense/directly contradicting and perverting all that the righteousness of God is.)



Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Corinthians 6: 1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

 

[gordon777]

Paul never referred to the Judaizers in the churches in Galatia as brethren; but he did call the born-again believers in Christ in the province of Galatia "brethren," and those who had "begun in the Spirit," and "children of God."

Children of God die like men, and there is no respect of persons with God.

Read below to see how God rises to judge the earth.

The judgement of God is according to truth, not to despise the riches and goodness and forbearance of God, to not be led to repentance. ( because of false teachers who riose at the same time to deceive many.)


Psalms 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Romans 2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.