Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[Butch5]

Very well said, and a very necessary response to them that reject the law of God today by Christ Jesus.

Peter says we are commanded to obey the law of man, but not of Christ?

The faith alone gospel is utter foolishness of transgressors that want to save and justify themselves by their own faith alone.

Christians are lawful, not lawless.

Christians are good law abiding citizens of nations on earth, and the commonwealth of Israel from heaven.

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Thanks! I agree!

 

[gordon777]

True. But faith alone is soil type #1 on the wayside.

Faith alone without works is dead and is taken immediately out of the heart of hearers only, that are not doing the faith.

Paul says the faith of God is to be obeyed, not just heard and agreed with.

And soil types 2 & 3 become as dead hearers only by no more doing the word.

Only soil type #4 is them that do the word unto the end of this life at the appearing of their Lord Jesus Christ.

There is one good seed, ( the children of the Kingdom) and one good ground. ( an honest and good heart, in the children of the Kingdom. They who have ears to hear, hear this)


Matthew 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.




The tares are the children of the wicked one. ( that is why the wicked one comes immediately to take away what was sown in them. Matthew 13:19.)

The seed of evil doers is sown by the devil, (Isaiah 1:4/14:20.) who have rocks for hearts, ( hardened in pride, not a meek honest and good heart.) and are without root. ( no growth, no beginning)

Those in thorns, also bring no fruit, ( fruit is brought to perfection.) they live in cares, riches, and pleasures of this life.

The Son of man gathers them who offend and work iniquity, ( rejoicing in iniquity, and not rejoicing in the truth.) and casts them into a furnace of fire. ( Hebrews 6:7-8, tells the same, of those who bring forth thorns, is rejected, whose end is to be burned.)

After this, the righteous can shine forth in the Kingdom of their Father. ( they who have ears to hear, hear this.)



Luke 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.




Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[gordon777]

But then, that's only because I'm not a hypocrite nor a Pharisee. Not by doctrine nor practise.

Proverbs 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.
2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

2 Corinthians 10:18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!



If we do not control our tongue, ( to be slow to speak, quick to hear) we work the wrath of man, not the righteo9usnesws of God.

We will answer on judgment for every idle word we spoke, our words were better to be few, not in a multitude.



Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.
3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

 

[gordon777]

True, but we are saved by grace through faith, means we are saved now.

A better translation is, we are being saved by grace through faith. The same for he that is doing righteousness, is righteous as the Lord is righteous.

It's all a matter of the here and now, especially at the end of this life. And so we are being saved unto the end by hearing and doing the word of faith in Jesus Christ.

At the end, only those continuing to be saved in the faith, will obtain eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead to everlasting life with God.

Enduring to the end is to be saved, not saved and enduring, but enduring to be saved.


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[gordon777]

Very well said, and a very necessary response to them that reject the law of God today by Christ Jesus.

Peter says we are commanded to obey the law of man, but not of Christ?

The faith alone gospel is utter foolishness of transgressors that want to save and justify themselves by their own faith alone.

Christians are lawful, not lawless.

Christians are good law abiding citizens of nations on earth, and the commonwealth of Israel from heaven.

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

What is not of faith is sin.


Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.



The law of faith excludes the law of works.

We are justified by faith with deeds of the law.



Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.




This establishes the law. ( of faith.)



Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.




Righteousness is imputed to us if we believe on the Father, who raised up Jesus Christ our Lord from the dead. ( delivered for our offences/unbelief/ raised again for our justification/belief/faith/the law of faith, excludes us from the law of works.)



Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



Therefore we are justified by faith, to have peace with God through Jesus Christ our Lord, we have access by the faith of Christ into this grace, which we stand by, rejoicing in hope of the glory of God, glorying in tribulations, which work patience, experience and hope, not being ashamed as the love of God is shed into our hearts by the Holy Ghost given unto us.



Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[gordon777]

Why do the vain teachers of strife, reject the good word, and are only seekers of pleasures now. ( the last days)


Firstly, because this parable was given by Christ for the ending time, to not faint, but to pray always.

God will avenge HIs elect who cry day and night to Him, but Jesus shows when the Son comes, shall He find faith on the earth ?

Revelation 6, tells of those elect crying, of God to judge and avenge their blood on those who dwell on the earth. They are to rest for a little while until their fellow servants also and their brothers, should be killed, as they were, to be fulfilled.



Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

Luke 18:6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



The last times of when to not faint, being overcharged with drunkenness and cares of this life, so the day of Christ comes unawares. The snare comes on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch and pray always, to be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are coming to pass, to stand before the Son of man.


Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.




The perilous times have come, men are lovers of their own selves, coveting, boasting, proud, blaspheming, unthankful and unholy, false accusers, fierce, despisers of those that are good. Traitors, heady, high minded. Lovers of pleasures, not of God, having a form of godliness. ( turn away from them who show they have a form of godliness, see them boasting, see them unholy and unthankful, see them despising the good.)



2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.



The day of the Lord comes unawares, when they are in peace and safety. ( now men are lovers of their own selves, lovers of pleasures.)

Let us not sleep as they do, but watch and be sober, they sleep in the night, they are drunken in the night, be sober, put on the breastplate of faith and love, for hope the helmet of salvation, God appointed us to salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, not their wrath of strife, but being slow to speak, which is quick to hear.




1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.



We are to not be shaken in mind, or troubled, by the day of Christ at hand. NO man is to deceive us, the day does not come unless there is this falling away first.

The working after satan, with their power, signs and lying wonders, is their deceiving of unrighteousness, no love of the truth received.

Stri9ng delusion, to believe a lie, to be damned, ( doubt and we are damned, what is not of faith is sin.) who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ( lovers of pleasures, lovers of their own selves.)



2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[gordon777]

Why would a person engage with the strife, and be accused of being a hypocrite for it ? ( despisers of those that are good.)

Because the time comes they only heap those teachers with itching ears to themselves, and they turn from the truth to fables. ( we see those teachers use their own words mostly, very little scripture to try to fool the foolish.)


The word of the Apostles is watch in all things, to endure afflictions, do the work, to make full proof of our ministry. ( do they really think they are not seen on forums as being great swelling words of vanity, what more could it amount to when we do not see anything at all of what they do ?)

But we know the example of the Apostle Paul, who did fight the good fight of faith, we understand all the things he did and endured, we do not follow others, that would be thinking their knowledge is wise. ( wiser than the example of the Lords Holy Apostles, who forsook all and showed their faith by their works, not by their words, as on the forum talkers/mockers.)




2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


2 Timothy 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

[donadams]

True, but we are saved by grace through faith, means we are saved now.

A better translation is, we are being saved by grace through faith. The same for he that is doing righteousness, is righteous as the Lord is righteous.

It's all a matter of the here and now, especially at the end of this life. And so we are being saved unto the end by hearing and doing the word of faith in Jesus Christ.

At the end, only those continuing to be saved in the faith, will obtain eternal salvation by resurrection of the dead to everlasting life with God.

Also, the free gift is the faith of Jesus that saves, not the salvation. Being saved costs us a price: Our own old lives on our own born crosses for Jesus' sake.

Trying to pay that price without Jesus and His work on His own cross, is what is vain, and is not possible.

Trying to avoid paying that price and be saved by faith alone, is what is also vain and not possible.

We are Christians now members of Christ in his apostolic church by faith and baptism in union with Christ the mediator of this new covenant by grace in union with God and His saints but we must endure to the end suffering Phil 1:29 carrying our cross Lk 22:16 by the power and gifts of the spirit and His divine life, Jn 1:16-17 the life of grace is eternal life, now but it can be lost just as Adam lost it, abide in Christ Jn 15:4 apart from Him and His church we can do nothing. Jn 15:5

Thanks

 

[justbyfaith]

I did a long response to what is written in all of these posts since I posted last; and then I hit the wrong button on my computer and lost it all.

I've done that before and restored what was lost afterwards.

But not this time. If the Lord sees fit to make me lose my information, then maybe He doesn't want what I posted to be on here.

I think that much of it would have answered the contention that salvation is by works as some have been purporting here.

Suffice it to say that the biblical doctrine is that salvation is not of works;

But that good works ultimately follow after a genuine salvation.

 

[Butch5]

I did a long response to what is written in all of these posts since I posted last; and then I hit the wrong button on my computer and lost it all.

I've done that before and restored what was lost afterwards.

But not this time. If the Lord sees fit to make me lose my information, then maybe He doesn't want what I posted to be on here.

I think that much of it would have answered the contention that salvation is by works as some have been purporting here.

Suffice it to say that the biblical doctrine is that salvation is not of works;

But that good works ultimately follow after a genuine salvation.

Doesn't your program automatically save? If you typed it into the forum it auto saves.


No one is espousing salvation by works. Salvation is through faith. The argument is that that faith has works. Those works aren't the product of faith, they are part of faith. Faith without works (helping the poor and widows, not keeping the Mosaic Law) is dead.

 

[justbyfaith]

Doesn't your program automatically save? If you typed it into the forum it auto saves.


No one is espousing salvation by works. Salvation is through faith. The argument is that that faith has works. Those works aren't the product of faith, they are part of faith. Faith without works (helping the poor and widows, not keeping the Mosaic Law) is dead.

They are the product of faith.

We apprehend the love of the Lord through faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5);

and this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

works of love come about because of faith alone in Jesus Christ, therefore.

If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to procure for me regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (see Titus 3:5).

That is only going to come by faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

We receive the love of the Lord, therefore, through faith alone in Jesus...

And this love produces good works.

We do not apprehend the love of the Lord by doing good works; that comes only by faith in Jesus and what He did for us.

Good works follow as the result of apprehending the love of the Lord through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

If I do not have works, then before men, it can be determined that I have not a genuine faith in Jesus...

However, God may see it a different way.

Because man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7).

 

[Butch5]

They are the product of faith.

We apprehend the love of the Lord through faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5);

and this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

works of love come about because of faith alone in Jesus Christ, therefore.

If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to procure for me regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (see Titus 3:5).

That is only going to come by faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).

We receive the love of the Lord, therefore, through faith alone in Jesus...

And this love produces good works.

We do not apprehend the love of the Lord by doing good works; that comes only by faith in Jesus and what He did for us.

Good works follow as the result of apprehending the love of the Lord through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

If I do not have works, then before men, it can be determined that I have not a genuine faith in Jesus...

However, God may see it a different way.

Because man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart (1 Samuel 16:7).

Again, your argument is illogical. James said that Abraham's faith was made complete by his works. Therefore it is logically impossible for those works to be a product of that faith. You also mentioned the phrase "faith alone". Again, that phrase only appears once in Scripture and it says the exact opposite. Man is not justified by faith alone. That’s crystal clear. Nowhere in Scripture does Paul say people are saved by faith alone. That's Martin Luther's doctrine and it's not a Biblical doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again, your argument is illogical. James said that Abraham's faith was made complete by his works. Therefore it is logically impossible for those works to be a product of that faith. You also mentioned the phrase "faith alone". Again, that phrase only appears once in Scripture and it says the exact opposite. Man is not justified by faith alone. That’s crystal clear. Nowhere in Scripture does Paul say people are saved by faith alone. That's Martin Luther's doctrine and it's not a Biblical doctrine.

Before man, men are justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:14-26 is qualified by Romans 4:2.

It also is not a logical impossibility, it is the teaching of holy scripture.

Did you read the references that I gave in light of the statements that I made?

 

[Butch5]

Before man, men are justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:14-26 is qualified by Romans 4:2.

It also is not a logical impossibility, it is the teaching of holy scripture.

You're making that up. Yes, it is logically impossible. It's irrational. No, it's not the teaching of Scripture. It's an attempt to justify an incorrect understanding of Paul's teachings on works

 

[gordon777]

We are Christians now members of Christ in his apostolic church by faith and baptism in union with Christ the mediator of this new covenant by grace in union with God and His saints but we must endure to the end suffering Phil 1:29 carrying our cross Lk 22:16 by the power and gifts of the spirit and His divine life, Jn 1:16-17 the life of grace is eternal life, now but it can be lost just as Adam lost it, abide in Christ Jn 15:4 apart from Him and His church we can do nothing. Jn 15:5

Thanks

Charity seeks not her own, now abides faith, hope, charity, the greatest of these is charity.

For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's. ( without faith, hope, or charity.)




1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.



Through the Spirit we wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Being sober, we put on the breastplate of faith and love, ( charity which seeks not her own.) and for a helmet the hope of salvation. ( we are saved by this hope.)

Jesus Christ in the body of HIs flesh through death, to present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in HIs sight, ( holy sight) if we continue grounded and settled, to not be moved away from the hope of the gospel.

Christ as a Son over HIs own house, whose house we are, IF, we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm, unto the end.



Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

 

[gordon777]

They are the product of faith.
We apprehend the love of the Lord through faith (Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5);
and this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).
works of love come about because of faith alone in Jesus Christ, therefore.
If I give $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to procure for me regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (see Titus 3:5).
That is only going to come by faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5).
We receive the love of the Lord, therefore, through faith alone in Jesus...
And this love produces good works.
We do not apprehend the love of the Lord by doing good works; that comes only by faith in Jesus and what He did for us.
Good works follow as the result of apprehending the love of the Lord through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

By faith Christ did the works of creating the world. ( we begin by believing in the works of faith that God has done to create all things.)

God rested from all HIs work which He had made.


Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.



Christ suffered then entered into His glorious rest.


Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?



We therefore fear, ( the Lord takes pleasure in those who fear Him, in those who hope in HIs mercy/grace.) as the promise left us, ( in hope of eternal life.) to enter into the rest of the Lord, we should come short of it.

The gospel preached to Israel did not profit them, being without faith in earing it. ( faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.)


Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.



God we heard rested on the seventh day, from all HIs works, ( Christ created all by the works of faith.) and we are to enter into His rest. ( first doing the works of faith as Christ did to create all things for us to believe in.)

They who were first preached entered not in because of unbelief, as said in David, if they would hear His voice, ( faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.) they should not harden their hearts.

For the people of God there is a rest, ( as God rested from all the works of faith H had done.)

We labour therefore, to enter into that rest, to not fall after the same example of unbelief. ( to not do the works of faith as Christ did, is to not have faith.)



Hebrews 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[gordon777]

Doesn't your program automatically save? If you typed it into the forum it auto saves.


No one is espousing salvation by works. Salvation is through faith. The argument is that that faith has works. Those works aren't the product of faith, they are part of faith. Faith without works (helping the poor and widows, not keeping the Mosaic Law) is dead.

We don't keep the Mosaic law, we keep the law of faith. ( which is the law of kindness.)


Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[gordon777]

Do you guys have to be corrected for every word you think you are speaking in knowledge and wisdom ?


How many times do you have to ignore everything, that charity edifies, which means believing all things, rejoicing in the truth, not in iniquity.

All dispute is, is not acknowledging the rising from the dead of Jesus Christ, by engaging still in dead purposes. ( vain disputes of men.)


I did post all details of Abraham for us all, ( which is what scriptures are given to us for, to believe in and have comfort and hope/to be saved by hope) and what the example of Abraham is, is the rising of the dead that Jesus Christ would do, as we would not be saved by Isaac rising.

If you continue on trying to win an argument on vain topics, it means nothing, the only meaning there is, is the truth is in Jesus Christ, who is far above the talk people do, only, He bore those sins of people, ( self seeking, coveting, exaltation.) by being meek laying His life down and having nowhere to lay HIs head.


Shame on the talkers who wont stopped until they will be stopped, for ever.

It is only FOLLY, that FOLLY is FULLY known by all NOW.


Jude 1:10 But THESE SPEAK EVIL OF THOSE THINGS WHICH THEY KNOW NOT: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things THEY CORRUPT THEMSELVES.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, FEEDING THEMSELVES WITHUT FEAR: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, WITHOUT FRUIT, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13 RAGING WAVES of the sea, FOAMING OUT THEIR OWN SHAME wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jude 1:16 These are MURMURERS, COMPLAINERS, walking after their own lusts; and THEIR MOUTH SPEAKING GREAT SWELLING WORDS, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. PRESUMPTUOUS ARE THEY, SELF WILLED, they are NOT AFRAID TO SPEAK EVIL OF DIGNITIES.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, SPEAK EVIL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY UNDERSTAND NOT; and shall utterly PERISH IN THEIR OWN CORRUPTION;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they THAT COUNT IT PLEASURE TO RIOT IN THE DAY TIME. Spots they are and blemishes, SPORTING THEMSELVES WITH THEIR OWN DECEIVINGS, WHILE THEY FEAST WITH YOU.

 

[justbyfaith]

gordon777,

I must say that the majority of your posts are convoluted; and I gloss over them most of the time.

You should ask the Holy Ghost to show you a better way to relay your message;

Because as it is I don't think that you are getting your point across to anyone.

 

[justbyfaith]

I can read scripture any time that I open my Bible.

When I am considering teaching, I think that it is good for the teacher to make statements about the Bible and to minimize the quoting.

You can even say what the Bible says, in your own words, in a particular instance, and then give a reference that substantiates the statement that you have made.