Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[RBDERRICK]

What Jesus says is all His law and if you claim to be His follower you better obey it.

Correct. And if we love Him from the heart it's easy to do so.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

If we have His faith, so that we have also His love for righteousness and hatred of sin, then it's just as easy not to sin.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus says "God is one" is the most important commandment.So it is essential to worship Jesus' God, the Father.

True. And we also are to love God the Son of the Father, and honor Him as we honor the Father also.

We cannot honor the Father without also honoring the Son, else we neither honor the Father nor the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

 

[RBDERRICK]

But some Christians think they work righteousness to be righteous.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

That's because some Christians believe all the words of the Bible from the heart to do it.

The ones who don't, also don't believe any man can do righteousness and walk with Jesus all the time.

There's the gospel of faith in Jesus, and and another gospel of unbelief.

 

[RBDERRICK]

That’s because justification occurs entirely by having your sins forgiven and receiving the imputation of God’s righteousness, not by doing works of righteousness, either by faith or not.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I thought you understood that what shows you are a sheep does not make you a sheep:

I'm seeing you're not reading my words of explanation.

So why are you saying present works of righteousness with God make you a righteous person?

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Someone doesn't even need to believe this verse, in order to comprehend the eternal principle of it. It is saying what Jesus says: We are only what we are doing. Not what we are not doing.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit

Once again, the faith alone doctrine is of the natural man. In the natural world, we know the seed does not take root and bear fruit immediately when planted. And so, there is seed in the ground, while still seed alone with neither root nor fruit.

But when the Bible uses natural things to teach the spiritual things. That does not mean the spiritual things act the same way as the natural.

The Bible teaching about faith without works, is that faith alone without any root and fruit, is dead. There is no 'temporal timeline' in the kingdom of God between faith and works. The word of God is quick and powerful to bear root and fruit in the heart immediately.

That fruit of the Spirit is first works of faith to resist the devil and his temptations, to flee from our heart and mind and lives.

Faith alone that is not doing these first works of spiritual warfare, is therefore immediately taken away by Satan.

There is no natural 'gestation' period of seed alone in the kingdom of God, before, without, or apart from taking root and bearing fruit of the Spirit.

There is no embryonic grace period with the seed and word of God in the heart, to stop sinning, and begin doing righteousness.

All such reasoning is that of the carnal mind that only looks to the natural things of this life to believe doctrine of God.

Faith + works is a natural theology of man, that only thinks of works as of the body, and not first of the spirit. It thinks the seed of God, which is Christ, needs temporal time to repent and do the first works of the spirit.

The real purpose behind faith without works is of course well known: it's not just being saved without doing righteousness, but being saved while doing unrighteousness.

It's a fictional faith of man that stands apart and alone to save, that can't be touched while doing evil.

Once faith is made separate from any works, then that faith is kept separate from all works.

it's just a doctrine made by sinners to justify the unrighteous and guilty for life.

 

[grace2]

Correct. And if we love Him from the heart it's easy to do so.

But you are lying if you claim to obey yet dismiss His Word.

Jesus does not appreciate lip service.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I quoted 1 John 1 and 1 John 2.
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

• He who loves his brother abides in the light.

walking and abiding in the light refers to walking in love, not being perfectly sinless.

How can one walk in love and still be a hater?
BTW, it is in verse 5 where it says "God is light".
Why change the message?

• But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness

Walking in darkness refers to walking in hate.

It can mean that.
I use Prov 4:19 for my definition of "darkness"..."The way of the wicked is as darkness: "
Their way is sinful, so darkness is sin.

I'm sure glad God made it possible to be sin-free, so we can walk in the light, in Him, wherein is no sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thanks be to God if we sin, we have an advocate in heaven that is the propitiation for our sin, in which if we should sin, we can confess our sin and He is faithful to forgive us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 Joh

If you sin, you are one of your haters, and in darkness.
You cannot say you have fellowship with God or that you have no sin.
Those in the light can say both.

 

[JLB]

How can one walk in love and still be a hater?
BTW, it is in verse 5 where it says "God is light".
Why change the message?

Yes, why are you changing the message that the scriptures teach, and injecting your own terminology?

Walking in the light does not mean walking in sinless perfection as you claim.

Walking in the light means walking in love.

He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 2:10-11


Claiming you are perfectly sinless since the day tou were baptized is only deceiving yourself.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10



JLB

 

[JLB]

If you sin, you are one of your haters, and in darkness.
You cannot say you have fellowship with God or that you have no sin.
Those in the light can say both.

• If I should sin, I confess my sin and He is faithful to forgive me and cleanse me of all sin and unrighteousness, and thus my fellowship with Him continues unbroken. Notice this verse pertains to those who walk in the light.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

• By claiming I am sinlessly perfect, and have no need of His blood and grace to cleanse me of my sin, I make Him to be a liar, and deceive myself.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8


He loves us and desires for us to walk with Him in fellowship and grow in grace as we mature, and are transformed into the image of His Son.
The more we mature spiritually, the more we learn to be led by the Spirit, the less we will drawn away by the desires of our flesh.

Until that time comes, He has made a way for us to remain in fellowship with Him, by confessing our sin.

• If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ever met anyone who met your criterion?

Of course.
I've met many people being transformed by the gospel.
Amazing transformations that glorify God.

I mean, ever fully manifested what they were meant to become?

I don't know how I would know they are 100% sinless, but if anyone I know has become that, Papa, an older Jewish gentleman I fellowshipped with years ago would be that person. But I have no delusions that he started out that way as a believer.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then you don't believe the Bible that says only those doing righteous are being righteous with Christ.

How does doing righteous things make me righteous? Isn't it rather that I show myself to have the righteousness of faith by doing righteous things? James 2:18

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then stop teaching another doctrine of how faith without works saves and justifies any man.

I agree that faith that has no works can't save you. I'm not in disagreement with James about that.

What I am in disagreement with is the doctrine that says those who say they have faith but have no works can't be saved because they failed to do the works that make a person righteous.

What they failed to do is have the faith that makes a person righteous. And so they do not have the works that righteous people do as a result of having been made righteous by faith - the works which Jesus will use as evidence to judge us as being sheep when he returns (Matthew 25:31-46).

That's why faith without works can't save you. The absence of works of faith shows that you have not been made righteous by faith, not that you failed to make yourself righteous by faith and works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I see. So being made righteous is separate from being righteous.

You have to first become a righteous person to be able to do works of righteousness. We become that righteous person when we believe in and receive the promise of God's forgiveness by faith and are cleansed of the guilt of our unrighteousness and given an imputation of his righteousness. And so in that moment of re-birth we are transformed into new creations in Christ created by God to do good works:

10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life. Ephesians 2:10

You do not have faith and do good works to become righteous. You are made righteous through faith to do good works. As you yourself acknowledge, you don't become a sheep by acting like a sheep. You become a sheep, and then you act like a sheep because you are a sheep.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, why are you changing the message that the scriptures teach, and injecting your own terminology?

I have changed nothing.

Walking in the light does not mean walking in sinless perfection as you claim.

Your claim that there is sin in God is ludicrous.

Walking in the light means walking in love.
He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 2:10-11
Claiming you are perfectly sinless since the day tou were baptized is only deceiving yourself.

Since the day I repented of sin, I have not committed any sin.
My water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins occurred before I finally turned from sin permanently.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

Certainly true, if you are walking in sin/darkness.
But not true if you are walking in God/light.

Do you think anyone walks "in God" who is the light ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

If I should sin, I confess my sin and He is faithful to forgive me and cleanse me of all sin and unrighteousness, and thus my fellowship with Him continues unbroken. Notice this verse pertains to those who walk in the light.

If that is your last sin, God will hear you.
If it isn't your last sin, God's ears are closed to your plaint.
"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12)

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

Can't that cleansed man say he has no sin?
Yes, he can say he has no sin.

By claiming I am sinlessly perfect, and have no need of His blood and grace to cleanse me of my sin, I make Him to be a liar, and deceive myself.

By saying I have no sin, I say I walk in the light.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

Better get to the point where you can say you have no sin, or you will perish on the day of judgement.

He loves us and desires for us to walk with Him in fellowship and grow in grace as we mature, and are transformed into the image of His Son.
The more we mature spiritually, the more we learn to be led by the Spirit, the less we will drawn away by the desires of our flesh.
Until that time comes, He has made a way for us to remain in fellowship with Him, by confessing our sin
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

I am glad the blood of Christ washed away my past sins, so I could then walk in the light and say I had no more sin !!!

You should try it !

 

[Hopeful 2]

Of course.
I've met many people being transformed by the gospel.
Amazing transformations that glorify God.

If they are still being transformed, they aren't yet transformed.

I don't know how I would know they are 100% sinless, but if anyone I know has become that, Papa, an older Jewish gentleman I fellowshipped with years ago would be that person. But I have no delusions that he started out that way as a believer.

Then he was no believer in the power of God, or of rebirth from God's seed.
God's seed does NOT bring forth liars, thieves, or adulterers.

Kill the old you and be reborn as something better.
It happens when one turns from sin and is baptized into Jesus' death and burial. (Rom 6:3, Gal 3:27, 5:24)
From where they are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If they are still being transformed, they aren't yet transformed.

Parable of the growing seed:

26Jesus also said, “The kingdom of God is like a man who scatters seed on the ground. 27Night and day he sleeps and wakes, and the seed sprouts and grows, though he knows not how. 28All by itself the earth produces a crop—first the stalk, then the head, then grain that ripens within. 29And as soon as the grain is ripe, he swings the sickle, because the harvest has come.c” Mark 4:26-29

You have much to learn.

Differences are fine, and they are to be expected, but you have rejected so many plain scriptures and their explanations that if I knew you personally I could not consider you a fellow believer. Sorry.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Parable of the growing seed:

26Jesus also said, “The kingdom of God is like a man who scatters seed on the ground. 27Night and day he sleeps and wakes, and the seed sprouts and grows, though he knows not how. 28All by itself the earth produces a crop—first the stalk, then the head, then grain that ripens within. 29And as soon as the grain is ripe, he swings the sickle, because the harvest has come.c” Mark 4:26-29

If an apple seed was planted, no pumpkins will come from it.
If God's seed was planted, no liars, thieves, or murderers will be brought forth.

You have much to learn.

I know God's seed will never bear the devil's fruit.

Differences are fine, and they are to be expected, but you have rejected so many plain scriptures and their explanations that if I knew you personally I could not consider you a fellow believer. Sorry.

I only reject untruths.
What I don't reject is that being reborn of God's seed turns a man's life from worthless to worthwhile.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If an apple seed was planted, no pumpkins will come from it.
If God's seed was planted, no liars, thieves, or murderers will be brought forth.

You're ignoring the progression of growth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know God's seed will never bear the devil's fruit.

That's right. That comes from the flesh.