Atonement is what removes it. Thou art wrong.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
- Start date
By getting him to turn from sin permanently and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
God put the free gift on the table.
It is our JOB, DUTY, PRIVELEGE, & HONOR, to accept it and live it until the end.
This allows us to say we have no sin and have fellowship with God.
Correct, as sinners cannot walk in God.
Being cleansed of sin by the blood of Christ, after confession of same, allows us to say we have fellowship with God and are free of sin.
It also allows us to continue to walk in God.
Correct, walking in sin is not mentioned in verses 5, 7, or 9.
Only the initial processes, (confession, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin), to walking in the light-God.
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I disagree.
Their love is predicated on personal gain.
Can the blood of Christ wash away sin?
Yes?
Then after that washing we CAN say we have no sin.
People who walk in God have had their past sins washed away by the blood of Christ.
There is no sin in God.
Yep, John differentiates those who walk in God from those who walk in sin.
Sinners cannot say they have fellowship with God or that they have no sin.
People who walk in God can say both.
No sir, the actual words of scripture are in opposition to your theory!
The words and context teach us that those who walk in the light are cleansed of their sins by the blood of Jesus.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:7-8
JLB
Yes people who walk in the light as He is in the light are have their sins cleansed by the blood of Jesus.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
JLB
Yes, the scripture is clear that Christians walk in the light, not non Christians. Christians who walk in the light as He is in the light have their sins cleansed by His blood.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
Are you trying to teach us, that non Christians walk in the light?
JLB
Atonement is what the blood of bulls and goats did in the Old Testament. Atonement means to cover, as pitch on the roof of a house covers. That’s why the sin remain with the people in the Old Testament.
The blood of Jesus removes sin, it doesn’t cover sin.
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:1-4
JLB
Twist as you may, this word does not change.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
John is plainly stating that those who walk in the light are the ones whose sins the blood of Jesus cleanses.
Obviously then walking in the light does not mean sinlessly perfect.
The blood of Jesus cleanses those who walk in the light of all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:8-9
- If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
They way Christians are forgiven their sins is to confess them.
JLB
Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion.
So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?” Luke 10:30-36
Out of the three men who came upon the man in need, the Samaritan is the one who demonstrated love.
Do you believe the Samaritan was sinlessly perfect?
Jethro Bodine
Member
I'm 37 years into the Spirit filled life.
I reject your assertion that I'm not Spirit filled and born again because I'm not 100% sinless.
You're relying on the righteousness of your work, thinking it to be 100% righteous, to pass safely through the coming judgment. I'm relying on the declaration of righteousness I received by faith in God's forgiveness and the resurrection of Christ from the dead. You will be sorely disappointed at the return of Christ. I will not.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
Still no quote from Paul about any faith apart from works. That's your addition to his words.
Let's do it this way:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Where do you get from the verse anything about 'without works' pertaining to being saved through faith?
RBDERRICK
Supporter
Once again, the doctrinal effort to become something without doing it, is as believing to become a fisherman without fishing.
Faith alone is dead.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
Becoming something without being it, is hypothetical sophistry.
The Bible says no one can be something without doing it.
The faith without works argument is from a philosophic faith, that can stand alone apart from works. It's a hypothetical sophistry. And it begins by opposing the word of truth in the Bible, that calls such faith dead.
It's the theological version of vain philosophy with intellectually endless arguments, but is never of any practical use in this life not the next.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
And here is the heart of the error of faith without works and hearers only.
Just when any normal believer expects to so and 'do' the word, what do we get? 'Retain' the word. A gutless and vacuous knowledge only faith. Faith without works is a knowledge only by hearing alone.
If just hearing and retaining saves and justifies, then all who hear and remember are saved and justified.
This 'retaining' knowledge of faith doctrine is akin to gnosticism, where knowledge is the God. It's the idolatry of knowledge only.
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RBDERRICK
Supporter
"But desiring to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And how are works part of my salvation?”
Sophistry arguments are meaningless, because they just confuse the issue on purpose.
When the Bible says someone is justifying himself, he is. When the Bible says someone is justified by works, he is.
Paul calls this squabbling over word meanings, rather than how God plainly use those words in the Bible.
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Bible faith is defined as not being alone.
Bible justification is defined by works.
Any other definition of faith and justification is man's own theological and philosophical arguments.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
I understand how doting about word meanings of men, is used to change Bible use of those words to teach God's truth about faith, salvation, works, justification, etc...
What we see are the myriad ways in which something is taught, that from the outset the Bible condemns as dead.
It's still a curiosity to read how faith without works is dead, being alone, and cannot save nor justify any man, and then watch people try to teach how faith without works saves and justifies a man.
It's a nonstarter with the Bible from the beginning, and all the strifes of words and meanings and definitions that follow, is as the smoke rising from the bottomless pit, that darkens the air and muddies the waters.
The whole sophistic effort is to deny and forget one simple teaching of the Bible: Faith without works is dead, being alone. And a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Here are some of the results we've seen so far:
Some people start arguing that there are two different faiths. Some say two different justifications. Some quibble about a 'difference' between becoming and being something. Some get into 'meanings' and man's definitions of words, rather how God uses those words to define His word of salvation and justification. Some then go to Greek to rewrite the words altogether in purposely false translations.
And yet, the Bible still says faith without works is dead, being alone, and a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
True. He's saying: A man is justified by works.
Paul is rebuking them that try to justify themselves by their own works alone, and James is rebuking them trying to justify themselves by their own faith alone.
Bible teaching made easy: Just repeat the words of the Bible with normal sense.
The "work" that Abraham was justified by was obedience to offer his son Isacc on the altar.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
This is called the obedience of faith.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: James 16:26
Abraham received faith from God when God spoke to him to offer his son Isacc on the altar.
Abraham was justified when he obeyed.
This is the principle of faith; how faith operates.
Faith is made complete, and therefore activated (made alive) by obedience, otherwise faith remains inactive, dormant or dead just as a body without that persons spirit is dead and inactive.
JLB
RBDERRICK
Supporter
More doctrinal sophistry.
So, we conclude no man is saved by faith without works. No man becomes a saved without doing works of faith.
Those who teach being saved by faith without works, and becoming saved without doing works of faith, are not teaching Bible faith and salvation.
Otherwise, works are not works, and doing is not doing.
I think I remember someone, that teaches being saved by faith without works, trying to argue that works and doing are not the same thing.
Such sophistry is idolatry of the intellect.
RBDERRICK
Supporter
True. Paul calls it obedience to the faith in Romans 1.
Correct. Also in Romans 16.
Abraham believed God, when God promised a son by Sarah.
It may seem a distinction without a difference, but it is the difference between being doer of the word, and a hearer only.
In the parable of the sower, Jesus shows us that His word of faith is sown in our hearts by the gospel, through hearing alone.
Those that do not believe from the heart unto righteous doing of the word, have that faith sitting alone taken immediately away by Satan.
The spiritual things of God can be partly understood by the natural things of His creation. But the natural and spiritual do not act the same.
The seed of nature is slow to take root and bear fruit, but the quick and powerful word of God acts immediately upon being planted into the heart.
If not, it is immediately dead, DOA, and is taken away by the devil.
True, if you mean he was justified by obeying. However, he was not justified already and also when obeying.
True. The faith of Jesus obeys. Keeping His commandments is keeping His faith. They are one and the same, and ever without each other.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Excellent. The only problem is that the devil immediately takes away Jesus' faith from our heart, so soon as we choose not to obey Him.
There is no 'dormancy' or 'gestation' period of the seed Christ sown in our hearts. There is no 'temporal' time of being saved by dormant faith alone. No man is saved by hearing only; otherwise all who have ever heard once would be saved. Some faith alone zealots go so far as to agree with this necessary conclusion. They really don't care about who populates heaven, so long as they squeeze in with the masses.
The first works are an immediate fight of our heart and spirit to now resist the devil's lies and temptations, rather than give ourselves to his lust.
Outer works of God's love and righteousness follow without sinning by the devil.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.