Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[JLB]

This is not what JLB is saying.
We for give everyone.
We agape love everyone.
But some are brothers and some are neighbors.

I THINK this is what JLB is saying.
Hope he confirms.

Yes ma’am. We are commanded to forgive everyone, otherwise we will not be forgiven if we don’t forgive.


However the passage is referring to hate.

If a brother in Christ begins to hate, for whatever reason, they are in grave danger, because they do not have eternal life abiding in them.

further explanation below.

No need to change any wording but only to expound upon the actual words to make clear to those who don’t understand.

Obviously these words do not mean murderers are in Christ.

Just the opposite.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

• Whoever hates his brother

The first truth that should be understood is John is referring to
two brothers in Christ; Christians, those who have eternal life.
Those who are one spirit with Christ; one with the Spirit of Life in Christ.

Again, here is the context:

Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:13-15

By the time we get to verse 15, John has contextually made a distinction between the world and the brethren; brothers in Christ

There is no mistaking this distinction —

• The world = unsaved people
• The brethren = saved, born again Christians

Now that we understand this first aspect of the verse we can plainly understand that in order to have eternal life remaining in a person they must first have eternal life in them, in the first place.

For your car to remain in the mechanic’s shop for repair, it must first be in the mechanic’s shop in the first place. If the car gets repaired by which the owner comes to driver the car home, the car is no longer in the mechanic’s shop.

For a person to remain at church, they must first be at the church building. When the person who was in the church, then leaves the church, that person is no longer in the church building.

For a person to remain in Christ, they must first be in Christ. If a person does not remain in Christ, then that person is no longer in Christ.

This is elementary, basic foundational understanding.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

• No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

Eternal life was indeed in him, because he is a brother in Christ, then he began to hate his brother, thus he became a murderer, in which he does not have eternal life remaining in him.

We have two brothers in Christ, two people who have eternal life in them, and for whatever reason one of the brothers begins to hate his brother.


Because he hates his brother in Christ he (no longer) does not have has eternal life remaining (abiding) in him.


The point at which he did not have eternal life abiding (remaining) in him is when he began to hate.


He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes ma’am. We are commanded to forgive everyone, otherwise we will not be forgiven if we don’t forgive.


However the passage is referring to hate.

If a brother in Christ begins to hate, for whatever reason, they are in grave danger, because they do not have eternal life abiding in them.

further explanation below.







JLB

Thanks JLB
I read your posts.
You explain everything really well.

 

[jaybo]

This is not what JLB is saying.
We for give everyone.
We agape love everyone.
But some are brothers and some are neighbors.

I THINK this is what JLB is saying.
Hope he confirms.

You do NOT agape love everyone.

 

[Hopeful]

This is not what JLB is saying.
We for give everyone.
We agape love everyone.
But some are brothers and some are neighbors.

I THINK this is what JLB is saying.
Hope he confirms.

I hope you are right.

 

[Hopeful]

No need to change any wording but only to expound upon the actual words to make clear to those who don’t understand.

Obviously these words do not mean murderers are in Christ.

Just the opposite.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

• Whoever hates his brother

The first truth that should be understood is John is referring to
two brothers in Christ; Christians, those who have eternal life.
Those who are one spirit with Christ; one with the Spirit of Life in Christ.

Again, here is the context:

Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:13-15

By the time we get to verse 15, John has contextually made a distinction between the world and the brethren; brothers in Christ

There is no mistaking this distinction —

• The world = unsaved people
• The brethren = saved, born again Christians

Now that we understand this first aspect of the verse we can plainly understand that in order to have eternal life remaining in a person they must first have eternal life in them, in the first place.

For your car to remain in the mechanic’s shop for repair, it must first be in the mechanic’s shop in the first place. If the car gets repaired by which the owner comes to driver the car home, the car is no longer in the mechanic’s shop.

For a person to remain at church, they must first be at the church building. When the person who was in the church, then leaves the church, that person is no longer in the church building.

For a person to remain in Christ, they must first be in Christ. If a person does not remain in Christ, then that person is no longer in Christ.

This is elementary, basic foundational understanding.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

• No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

Eternal life was indeed in him, because he is a brother in Christ, then he began to hate his brother, thus he became a murderer, in which he does not have eternal life remaining in him.

We have two brothers in Christ, two people who have eternal life in them, and for whatever reason one of the brothers begins to hate his brother.


Because he hates his brother in Christ he (no longer) does not have has eternal life remaining (abiding) in him.


The point at which he did not have eternal life abiding (remaining) in him is when he began to hate.
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

There are no haters "in Christ".

 

[Hopeful]

Nevertheless, your physical body was never born again.

Well it was sure dead for a while when I was immersed into Christ's death and burial.

Your flesh still contains sin, lustful carnal sinful cravings which is why we are called to walk according to the Spirit, rather than the flesh.

It isn't "my" skin and bones anymore.
It is the Lord's temple.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

Walk in the one, and you can't do the other.

Here is what is in your flesh, that desires to be gratified by manifesting itself as “works” or “deed.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

All that is in the flesh/skin and bones of the unregenerated.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Thank God for making me a new, better, creature.

The born again, water baptized, Spirit filled Christ must learn to put to death these “works” or “deeds” that the sin (nature) in our flesh desires to gratify.

Those filled with the Spirit understand that the old man was destroyed and they are new creatures now.
The Spirit will not allow them to wallow in a lack of understanding.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live

It is written..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Ro 8:9)

 

[RBDERRICK]

Rom 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31, But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32, Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33, As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:1, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Here in this passage we find that the Gentiles did not follow a law of righteousness and yet obtained the righteousness of faith;

While Israel attempted to earn righteousness through law-keeping and could not attain to righteousness.

Because they stumbled at a stumbling stone.

This stumbling stone is the law. It is also Christ.

Because, when people have faith in Jesus, they inadvertently keep the law (Galatians 5:22-23), some ascertain from this that it is keeping the law that makes a person Christian.

That is not the case. What makes a person Christian is his faith.

But because it seems that Christianity is exemplified by those who keep the law, some have determined that in the keeping of a set of do's and don'ts, they can make themselves Christian.

A Christian is someone who has been bought and redeemed through the blood of the Lamb; and this is only acquired by faith. No amount of law-keeping, apart from faith, will ever procure it.

Israel, going about to establish their own righteousness by attempting to keep the law, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

The righteousness of God comes about by faith.

Rom 1:17, For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Are you saying it's wrong to keep the law of Christ and not do the unrighteous works of the flesh?

Also, it's not just by faith, but the just shall live by faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you saying it's wrong to keep the law of Christ and not do the unrighteous works of the flesh?

No.

 

[donadams]

There is nothing we can do???
Really?


Does the will of God:
Those who hear the Word of God and do it!
Ez 36:25-27
Matt 7:21
Matt 12:50
Mk 3:35
Lk 1:45
Lk 8:21
Lk 11:28
Jn 5:30
Jn7:17
Rom 12:2
Rev 17:7

Doer of the word

James 1:22-23

1 Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Keep my commandments:
Matt 28:20
Jn 14:21

Things we must do:

Matt 5:8
Matt 7:14 narrow road leads to life
Jn 15:1-5 abide in Him
Lk 1:4 be instructed
Acts 2:38 acts 8:36-38 Matt 28:19 Jn 3:5 Jn 3:22 ez 36:25 baptism
2 thes 1:8 obedience


Must repent and do penance
Matt 3:2
Matt 3:8
Matt 4:17
Matt 9:13
Matt 16:24
Acts 2:38
Acts 3:19

Must believe and continue in a state of believing:
Jn3:16

Receive Christ: Jn 1:12
Put on Christ: gal 3:27

Endure to the end:
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13
Rev 2:26
Heb 3:14
Heb 6:11
Romans 11:22
Colossians 1:21-23
Hebrews 12:22-25
Hebrews 6:4
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39
Hebrews 3:4-6
1 John 2:24-25
2 John 8-9
Galatians 5:2-4
2 Timothy 2:11-13


1 pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The end (not the beginning) of faith is salvation!

 

[justbyfaith]

end = purpose.

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Clearly, the person who hears Jesus' words and believes on the Father, shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death into everlasting life from the moment of first faith.

 

[donadams]

end = purpose.

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Clearly, the person who hears Jesus' words and believes on the Father, shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death into everlasting life from the moment of first faith.

Does not make you saved
In grace and possession of eternal life union with Christ yes salvation not yet
Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 and many more

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

 

[justbyfaith]

Does not make you saved
In grace and possession of eternal life union with Christ yes salvation not yet
Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 and many more

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

I'm with you on the idea that baptism in Jesus' Name does in fact bring salvation to those who submit to that ordinance.

Even with baptism, faith (in the operation of God) must be a factor (Colossians 2:12)...otherwise you are just getting wet.

If faith is in the real and living Jesus Christ (whom I shall define here as being Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), then a person passes from death unto everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation from the moment of first faith.

no condemnation = salvation.

everlasting life = salvation.

 

[donadams]

I'm with you on the idea that baptism in Jesus' Name does in fact bring salvation to those who submit to that ordinance.

Even with baptism, faith (in the operation of God) must be a factor (Colossians 2:12)...otherwise you are just getting wet.

If faith is in the real and living Jesus Christ (whom I shall define here as being Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), then a person passes from death unto everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation from the moment of first faith.

no condemnation = salvation.

everlasting life = salvation.

No grace and union with Christ included everlasting life but it’s not salvation must continue till death Matt 24:13 in Christ Jn 3:16 Jn 15:5 In faith and good works (sacraments, prayer, alms, fasting/suffering Phil 1:29 practices of virtue etc.)
You still have free will to reject Christ and you won’t be saved

Do not have salvation by “faith alone” Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 & 8:36-38 rom 13:11 1 cor 13:2 James 2:24 1 pet 3:21

Baptism in the Matt 28:19 commandment
Baptism Not an ordinance but the initiation into the new covenant

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!


We must also suffer!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[Tenchi]

Rom 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31, But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32, Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33, As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:1, Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4, For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Here are the same passages in the NASB version:

Romans 9:30-33 (NASB)
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;

Although it is by means of faith the Gentiles obtain righteousness, it is in Christ that their righteousness exists. He is the righteousness of every person who is "in him" (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:9). Concerning justification, then, faith is not the Key; Christ is. If one's faith is not directed toward him, it is empty and useless spiritually, unable to produce any righteousness God will accept.

31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

Paul explained in Romans 3:19-20, Romans 7, Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:24-27, why a pursuit of righteousness by way of law-keeping is futile. No professing Christian heeding his words can champion a works-based salvation, a salvation by law-keeping. Such a doctrine is actually anathema to the Gospel of salvation by faith, through grace, in Jesus Christ, the Savior. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5-8; 2 Timothy 1:9)

32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

As the Jews throughout the record of the OT demonstrated, perfect law-keeping is impossible; and so, being justified by it before God is impossible. As a consequence of this fact, God instituted a "new and living way" through Christ by which sinners might be reconciled to Himself (Hebrews 10:19-22; Colossians 1:19-22).

Having distinguished themselves from the Gentile world for centuries by law-keeping, the Jews "stumbled" at the idea of being justified apart from a careful keeping of God's commands. Many Jews could not (and still today cannot) embrace the idea that Christ was "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" and that no man can come to God except through him (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5).

33 just as it is written, "Behold I lay in Zion a Stone of stumbling and a Rock of offense, and he who believes in him will not be disappointed."

To the first-century Jew, the idea that Christ was the "door" (John 10:7-9) through which they had to pass, by faith, into relationship with God and that he had "broken down the middle wall of partition (Ephesians 2:11-22) between Jew and Gentile, and they all together now stood before God as equals, was offensive to the Jew who had a keen nationalistic interest in being part of God's Chosen People, and took great cultural pride in being one of the promised children of Abraham (Matthew 3:7-10; John 8:38-40).

Romans 10:1-4 (NASB)
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Paul desired greatly that his Jewish brethren might come to a saving knowledge of, and faith in, Christ, the promised Messiah of Israel. Many Jews were zealous in their observance of the customs, ceremonies and laws handed down to them from Moses. Ignorant of God's righteousness present among them in the Person of Jesus Christ, the Jews continued zealously to seek justification before God by law-keeping. Paul was deeply desirous of his fellow Jews seeing that in Christ, their Messiah, the law had been perfectly fulfilled and in him perfect righteousness - the only righteousness God accepts - could be found.

 

[justbyfaith]

No grace and union with Christ included everlasting life but it’s not salvation must continue till death Matt 24:13 in Christ Jn 3:16 Jn 15:5 In faith and good works (sacraments, prayer, alms, fasting/suffering Phil 1:29 practices of virtue etc.)
You still have free will to reject Christ and you won’t be saved

Do not have salvation by “faith alone” Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 & 8:36-38 rom 13:11 1 cor 13:2 James 2:24 1 pet 3:21

Baptism in the Matt 28:19 commandment
Baptism Not an ordinance but the initiation into the new covenant

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!


We must also suffer!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Concerning the above scripture,

1) Jesus said it.

2) He said before stating His truth, Verily, verily, I say unto you.

3) The truth that He spoke. Whoever hears His word and believes on Him who sent Him shall not come into condemnation but is passed into everlasting life.

4) "shall not come into condemnation" = salvation
"everlasting life" = salvation

5) the only condition He gives, hear my word and believe on Him who sent me.

I will say concerning baptism, that if a person is baptized, it is conducive to faith, and that if a person is not baptized, it is conducive to unbelief (Luke 7:29-30).

So, being baptized in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39) is important if you want to continue in the faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here are the same passages in the NASB version:

Romans 9:30-33 (NASB)
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;

Although it is by means of faith the Gentiles obtain righteousness, it is in Christ that their righteousness exists. He is the righteousness of every person who is "in him" (1 Corinthians 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:9). Concerning justification, then, faith is not the Key; Christ is. If one's faith is not directed toward him, it is empty and useless spiritually, unable to produce any righteousness God will accept.

31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

Paul explained in Romans 3:19-20, Romans 7, Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:24-27, why a pursuit of righteousness by way of law-keeping is futile. No professing Christian heeding his words can champion a works-based salvation, a salvation by law-keeping. Such a doctrine is actually anathema to the Gospel of salvation by faith, through grace, in Jesus Christ, the Savior. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5-8; 2 Timothy 1:9)

32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

As the Jews throughout the record of the OT demonstrated, perfect law-keeping is impossible; and so, being justified by it before God is impossible. As a consequence of this fact, God instituted a "new and living way" through Christ by which sinners might be reconciled to Himself (Hebrews 10:19-22; Colossians 1:19-22).

Having distinguished themselves from the Gentile world for centuries by law-keeping, the Jews "stumbled" at the idea of being justified apart from a careful keeping of God's commands. Many Jews could not (and still today cannot) embrace the idea that Christ was "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" and that no man can come to God except through him (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5).

33 just as it is written, "Behold I lay in Zion a Stone of stumbling and a Rock of offense, and he who believes in him will not be disappointed."

To the first-century Jew, the idea that Christ was the "door" (John 10:7-9) through which they had to pass, by faith, into relationship with God and that he had "broken down the middle wall of partition (Ephesians 2:11-22) between Jew and Gentile, and they all together now stood before God as equals, was offensive to the Jew who had a keen nationalistic interest in being part of God's Chosen People, and took great cultural pride in being one of the promised children of Abraham (Matthew 3:7-10; John 8:38-40).

Romans 10:1-4 (NASB)
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Paul desired greatly that his Jewish brethren might come to a saving knowledge of, and faith in, Christ, the promised Messiah of Israel. Many Jews were zealous in their observance of the customs, ceremonies and laws handed down to them from Moses. Ignorant of God's righteousness present among them in the Person of Jesus Christ, the Jews continued zealously to seek justification before God by law-keeping. Paul was deeply desirous of his fellow Jews seeing that in Christ, their Messiah, the law had been perfectly fulfilled and in him perfect righteousness - the only righteousness God accepts - could be found.

Jesus is indeed the door.

The key to that door is faith.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[donadams]

Is love of God required for salvation?

 

[Tenchi]

Is love of God required for salvation?

No.

 

[justbyfaith]

Is love of God required for salvation?

No.

However, one can not have salvation and also not have the love of God.

For those who have been saved, the direct and certain result is that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts (Romans 5:5).

And therefore, I would say that, though the love of God is not a requirement for salvation (we do not love others in order to be saved), that the result is the same; in that if we do not have the love of the Lord, we do not have salvation (for that the love of the Lord shed abroad in the heart is the sure result of salvation; and therefore it can be said that if you don't have the love of the Lord, you also don't have salvation).

 

[Tenchi]

However, one can not have salvation and also not have the love of God.

For those who have been saved, the direct and certain result is that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts (Romans 5:5).

The "love of God" is not a feeling, or sensation, some sort of supernatural emotional energy, but a Person: the Holy Spirit, called the Spirit of Christ by the apostle Paul, in whom we obtain the life of Christ. (Romans 8:9-15; Titus 3:5-8; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 John 4:13, etc.) The Holy Spirit is "the love shed abroad in our hearts." In fact, it is in him that the believer possesses all of his "fruit": joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control, righteousness and truth (Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 5:9; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16, etc.).

But, as Paul pointed out to the believers in the province of Galatia, it is possible to be living in/by the Holy Spirit - that is, born-again and "alive unto God" - but not walking in/by the Spirit (Galatians 5:16; Galatians 5:25). And so it was that Paul urged the born-again brethren in Galatia to go beyond mere living in the Spirit to the greater spiritual experience that is possible by walking in the Spirit. What is "walking in/by the Spirit"? Essentially, it is living, in every moment, under the Holy Spirit's control, yielded to him in every area of life, looking to him for his wisdom, leading and power in all circumstances. (Romans 6:13-22; Romans 8:14; Romans 12:1; James 4:6-10; 1 Peter 5:6). The majority of Christians, however, are, I believe, merely "living in/by the Spirit" and know little to nothing of actual "walking in the Spirit."

It is possible, then, to be born-again - the Holy Spirit who is love "shed abroad in my heart" - but not be living in constant, full manifestation of this fact. Of course, love, by which God means "strong desire" (Psalm 42:1-2; Psalm 63:1; Psalm 84:2; Philippians 1:21-23; Philippians 3:7-11) typically develops over time, not in a single instant. And so, those in whom the Holy Spirit has imparted the love that he is grow in their desire for God, for the things of the Spirit - a process that continues all throughout a believer's life. The born-again believer of five decades, well-seasoned in their walk with God, moving through life from a well of deep, over-riding desire for God born of fifty years of fellowship with Him, cannot look at the new believer and say, "You don't love God sufficiently; your love is not as deep and full as mine so you must not be saved." This is no more reasonable than an adult saying to a child, "You cannot run as fast as I do, or jump, or throw, as well as me, so you must not be a real human being." But there are some Christians who do just this sort of thing, setting unreasonable and unbiblical standards for their fellow believers, standing in God's place and declaring them lost when those fellow believers fall afoul of their own ultimately personal standard. We call these people "legalists" (and hypocrites).

And therefore, I would say that, though the love of God is not a requirement for salvation (we do not love others in order to be saved), that the result is the same;

What do you mean by, "the result is the same"? I don't need to love God in coming to Christ for salvation. The Gospel properly understood, though, will lead me to a love for God (1 John 4:16-19) and the indwelling Spirit will manifest the love he is more and more in me over time, but a deep, evident, over-riding love for God does not need to be apparent in my life as a new convert in order for me to be truly saved. To say that it must be is to make the inevitable into the necessary, which is a big mistake in understanding God's truth.

A boat sitting on the bottom of a lake with a big hole in its side is still a boat. It's not floating on the water as it was meant to do, but it is nonetheless a boat. If the boat was in good condition, without a hole in its hull, it would inevitably float, as it was designed to do. But this doesn't mean floating on the water is necessary to being boat, only to being a useful one. Imagine a man seeing a boat on a trailer being hauled down the road declaring, "That is not a boat. It's not floating on water. True boats float on water." You'd think the man was a bit of an idiot, I suspect. He is obviously making what is inevitable - a boat in good condition floating on water - a necessary thing: a boat must be floating on water to be a boat.

This is, though, what is happening when a believer says that the inevitable result of the indwelling Spirit - love for God - is a necessary result. This is the same as saying that a boat that isn't floating isn't a boat. There are any number of reasons why a born-again believer may not be manifesting the love of God in their life: ignorance, simple immaturity, bad teaching, fear of God, deeply-ingrained habits of sin, etc. Such a believer has a "hole in his hull" and may not be "floating" well, but this no more means he is not a Christian than a damaged boat sunk to the bottom of a lake, or sitting on a trailer in someone's driveway, or in a boat shop getting a paint job, is not a boat. All we can say about these boats is that they're not in floating. So, too, the "sinking" Christian.